145 year old roundhouse uncovered at york

[sir douglas]

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2012/remains-of-historic-steam-locomotive-roundhouses/

 

is saw these remains from the train as i was going into york for the model show

[10800]

Seems strange to regard foundations of buildings in use until the 1960s as 'discovered' and subject to 'archaeological survey'.

[Coldgunner]

I thought it slightly odd. well, they've been after a turntable, why not fix it up as such?

[buffalo]

Seems strange to regard foundations of buildings in use until the 1960s as 'discovered' and subject to 'archaeological survey'.

'Discovered' is perhaps an exaggeration, but it is quite possible to conduct an archaeological survery of a still in use standing building.

 

Nick

[bike2steam]

Although the Rail.uk website says NER roundhouse, wasn't it in fact the old Midland roundhouse, used for loco storage after nationalisation until 1963 ??

[10800]

it is quite possible to conduct an archaeological survery of a still in use standing building.

 

I understand that Nick, I get involved with environmental assessments of which archaeology is an often significant component - just makes you sit up when applied to a building demolished only 50 years ago for which presumably extensive plans, records and photos already exist. It would be nice if they could expose and preserve some of it in the foundations/basement of the new building.

[petethemole]

I'm in the trade as it were, so feel the need to justify this a bit. When most of our industrial infrastructure was demolished, a process that goes back to the 18th century or earlier, no records were made and vast amounts of data was lost, about industrial processes, changes of technology, and how people worked and lived in the industrial environment. Even where original plans and other records survive, they aren't always complete, or even accurate, if changes were made during building or later use. While remains such as foundations and below ground feature survive, some of that information remains to be discovered and interpreted. Redevelopment that destroys the remains destroys the knowledge, so, as in "ancient" archaeology, the opportunity to recover information should be taken. I for one look forward to seeing the results.

Pete

[Kenton]

Seems strange to regard foundations of buildings in use until the 1960s as 'discovered' and subject to 'archaeological survey'.

 

"discovered" is completely the wrong word to use here. They were never lost in the first place and the full details of "York South" have been known for a long time. "Uncovered" is probably far more correct, especially if used to refer to the removal of weeds and other overgrowth and general detritus typical of isolated and derelict land.

 

Still it is good to finally see some local interest in this historical site.

[clecklewyke]

"discovered" is completely the wrong word to use here. They were never lost in the first place and the full details of "York South" have been known for a long time. "Uncovered" is probably far more correct, especially if used to refer to the removal of weeds and other overgrowth and general detritus typical of isolated and derelict land. Still it is good to finally see some local interest in this historical site.

 

If, as the link says, the site was cleared in 1961 it means that my memories of the building date from when I was 14 or less. My recollection is of a circular building with a conical roof. Or maybe this is a false memory based on photos I have seen?

 

Ian

[Michael Delamar]

I really should have went and taken a look at this over the weekend, but York has some really nice pubs

[The Stationmaster]

Was it really demolished that long ago - strange how time flies by when you're not taking notice isn't it? I wonder how many photos there are of this building lurking in various folks' albums and negative collections as it seemed to survive well into the 1950s in fairly good condition - or is my memory playing tricks again i wonder.

 

Presumably, as with many other old shed buildings, the turntable and other pits were simply back-filled to avoid the cost of demolishing them as the site wasn't need for anything else. Just a shame that Railtrack/NR couldn't manage to keep it as weed free as good old 'mismanaged' BR had done for many years.

[bluebottle]

Although the Rail.uk website says NER roundhouse, wasn't it in fact the old Midland roundhouse, used for loco storage after nationalisation until 1963 ??

 

The OS 60 in. to 1 mile map of York, 1851, ( as reproduced in "The Times - Mapping the Railways") shows the roundhouse as part of the York & North Midland Railway - which was part of the amalgamation which formed the NER in 1854.

[Kenton]

Sadly, along with most sheds, they did not attract the eye of the camera unless there was some fancy loco parked visibly in front of them. This site was also quite derelict from early days due to the destruction of roundhouse No 1 by fire (1921). The same fire also damaged No 2 and anyway the remnants were demolished to make way for track widening on the east side of the triangle (1936). All the sheds were pretty much abandoned post nationalisation when nearly all activity was moved to York North.

 

After all why maintain use of indoor (small) confined turning facility (remember these were built in 1852 1853 and 1864 to accommodate locos of that era) when you have a perfectly useable turning triangle around the site and newer and larger turntables at nearby York North?

 

I have seen no record of extensive improvement of the original basic coaling facilities, ramp or plant at York South. Even with the revitalisation of the old straight shed by the LMS in 1923 there seems to be no record of installation of a coaling plant, unlike their usual practice at major sheds. Again by nationalisation they had already moved to York North. Indeed the shed may well have only been used as storage during its life.

 

What does make this site interesting from an archeological point of view is that the site was busy with buildings (best view is the OS map of 1909 as it shows all 3 roundhouses and the LMS shed to the north of the triangle) much of which are unknown or poorly recorded. Though No 2 roundhouse will probably be beyond 'discovery'.

[Kenton]

The OS 60 in. to 1 mile map of York, 1851, ( as reproduced in "The Times - Mapping the Railways") shows the roundhouse as part of the York & North Midland Railway - which was part of the amalgamation which formed the NER in 1854.

 

This gives another clue as to why York South was "abandoned" - the NER were responsible for the building of York North (3 of the square roundhouses in 1878 and No 4 in 1915) York South No 1 was being used for repairing wagon sheets! and stabling by the date of the fire so definitely downgraded in use.