RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yesterday I took delivery of a new Cl 45 - D27 (32-679DS) with sound factory fitted and am experiencing some very strange effects. Simple question is whether iit is fixable without returning to supplier? Firstly I have previously installed a Loksound chip from ESU in a cl 25 and have had no problems at all in the last two years or so. Similarly for a Fairburn 2-6-4T. I use a test track with an NCE Powercab plus I also test locos on rollers driven by SPROG II and JMRI. There seems to be a number of issues with the cl 45. F1 starts the engine correctly and it settles down to idle. However, unlike my cl25, when I open the throttle the loco moves immediately followed, some seconds later, by brake release sound and rev increase. This happens after the loco has travelled about 18 inches! Throttling down experiences a similar delay. The same thing happens regardless of how wide the throttle is opened initially. While moving slowly it suddenly makes a noise akin to a bag of nails inside of a washing machine! I don't recall any Sulzers making that particular noise (although some may argue!). This "crashing" noise continues after the loco is stopped for about 25 secs when it returns to normal idle sound. Altogether, running this loco is a very poor experience of sound. On some occasions the sound (including the horn when the loco is stationary) can go "crackly" and broken (as if travelling on dirty track but no reboot of sound though). The loco wheels, test track and rollers have all been cleaned and the cl 25 performs perfectly on the same set up. I noted some starnge things in the Bachmann instruction sheet: It gives a list of CV values but, when I read the settings on JMRI, it appears these are very different to the recommended ones in some instances. e.g. Bachmann recommend CV53 (back EMF) to be 56 whereas JMRI reports 140 (max setting according to Bachmann is 63!). Similarly CV54 was set at 48 (recommended 32) and CV63 (sound volume) was set at 180! CV3 and CV4 were similarly set higher than recommended on the data sheet. However resetting these to recommended values does not cure the above problem of sound described above. Final query: The Bachmann data sheet mentions use of F5 for "notching" up engine sound but nothing happens on this loco - does another CV have to be set before this function works? - cannot find anything in the data sheet to say. I have not taken the body off this loco to check what version of decoder is used and am reluctant to do so if it has to be returned. Does anybody have any quick solutions please? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Factory reset? 8 in CV8 IIRC! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 1, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 Factory reset? 8 in CV8 IIRC! Cheers, John E. Thanks for suggestion - I should have thought of that although I do not think it should be needed when new straight from the box. Have done it and there is an improvement in that the brake squeal now acts in time with a stop (which it didn't before) and the "notching" now seems to function although not in a way I feel is quite right. There is still a considerable delay for the sound of brake release and revving up after the loco has already moved though. The sound break up appears to have stopped for the moment so there is an improvement but I still don't think it is right - not as good as my Cl 25. Am now going to check CV settings since reset. Looking at this site and others it seems that there have been a number of problems with these Loksound/Bachmann programmed chips. As long as I can be confident that the Loksound chip itself is OK then I think I will look at getting it reblown somewhere else - have to take a risk on Warranty I guess. Thanks again for help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 1, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 Does anyone know which Loksound is actually fitted to this loco? 3.5 or 4.0 . Also JMRI gives a choice of devices for v4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 1, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 After CV8 reset I note that the CVs have returned to their original "strange" values as listed above. I note that CV3 and CV4 are both shown in the data sheet as recommended setting of 3 but are apparently factory set at 32 and 24 respectively. Is anybody familiar with this situation - is it normal? On the rollers when I sound the horn (both) the sound is badly "broken" and crackly (as if power is being interupted) but the engine sound, lights and motor seem to continue smoothly without breaks or flickering. There really seems to be something wonky here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durranhill Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 This topic has been covered before in another post on DCC sound , Bachmann fitted a V4 chip but with V3.5 sound files on so the sound is crap & out of sync with loco movement . Email Caroline at South West Digital regarding a re-blow of the chip , She's very helpful & installed the new version of Bachmann's Class 45 V4 sound files onto my D27 chip F.O.C & i had another one of my 45's done with SWD's latest sounds & that was only £10 for the re-blow or you could PM Legomanbiffo of this parish & get his sound fitted. If you have the loco apart check the wires under the speaker housing , I've had 2 loco's which have had the wires trapped between the housing & the chassis during assembly leading to one of them shorting out . Stewart . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 2, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2013 This topic has been covered before in another post on DCC sound , Bachmann fitted a V4 chip but with V3.5 sound files on so the sound is crap & out of sync with loco movement . Email Caroline at South West Digital regarding a re-blow of the chip , She's very helpful & installed the new version of Bachmann's Class 45 V4 sound files onto my D27 chip F.O.C & i had another one of my 45's done with SWD's latest sounds & that was only £10 for the re-blow or you could PM Legomanbiffo of this parish & get his sound fitted. If you have the loco apart check the wires under the speaker housing , I've had 2 loco's which have had the wires trapped between the housing & the chassis during assembly leading to one of them shorting out . Stewart . Thank you Stewart. I did look around this forum and I found various complaints re Loksound decoders fitted to some Bachmann models. However I was unsure from what I read whether the strange CV values and performance on my model indicated an actual part problem (in which case it would have to be returned) or just lousy chip programming (in which case I would send the chip to be reblown). I had found the articles commenting on the trapped wires (mostly on cl 37s it seemed) but was undecided whether to open up the model if I was going to return it to the supplier as I probably could not have resisted the temptation to break the seals and fiddle with it. I like the model and it was purchased at a good price so I will take your advice and get the chip re-blown. Thanks again for your guidance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The earlier thread is HERE SWD re-blew the v4.0 chip in my green Peak with excellent results, and will receive another one to re-blow shortly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Yesterday I took delivery of a new Cl 45 - D27 (32-679DS) with sound factory fitted and am experiencing some very strange effects. Simple question is whether iit is fixable without returning to supplier? Firstly I have previously installed a Loksound chip from ESU in a cl 25 and have had no problems at all in the last two years or so. Similarly for a Fairburn 2-6-4T. I use a test track with an NCE Powercab plus I also test locos on rollers driven by SPROG II and JMRI. There seems to be a number of issues with the cl 45. F1 starts the engine correctly and it settles down to idle. However, unlike my cl25, when I open the throttle the loco moves immediately followed, some seconds later, by brake release sound and rev increase. This happens after the loco has travelled about 18 inches! Throttling down experiences a similar delay. The same thing happens regardless of how wide the throttle is opened initially. While moving slowly it suddenly makes a noise akin to a bag of nails inside of a washing machine! I don't recall any Sulzers making that particular noise (although some may argue!). This "crashing" noise continues after the loco is stopped for about 25 secs when it returns to normal idle sound. Altogether, running this loco is a very poor experience of sound. On some occasions the sound (including the horn when the loco is stationary) can go "crackly" and broken (as if travelling on dirty track but no reboot of sound though). The loco wheels, test track and rollers have all been cleaned and the cl 25 performs perfectly on the same set up. I noted some starnge things in the Bachmann instruction sheet: It gives a list of CV values but, when I read the settings on JMRI, it appears these are very different to the recommended ones in some instances. e.g. Bachmann recommend CV53 (back EMF) to be 56 whereas JMRI reports 140 (max setting according to Bachmann is 63!). Similarly CV54 was set at 48 (recommended 32) and CV63 (sound volume) was set at 180! CV3 and CV4 were similarly set higher than recommended on the data sheet. However resetting these to recommended values does not cure the above problem of sound described above. Final query: The Bachmann data sheet mentions use of F5 for "notching" up engine sound but nothing happens on this loco - does another CV have to be set before this function works? - cannot find anything in the data sheet to say. I have not taken the body off this loco to check what version of decoder is used and am reluctant to do so if it has to be returned. Does anybody have any quick solutions please? Thanks. Hi I had the same issues with a sound fitted Bach 37 417. As for the CV readings etc, your Class 45 is fitted with a Lok V4, as is 37 417, but the operating instructions / CV settings that come with the locos are for the earlier V3.5 decoders. Hence nothing happens on F5 "notching" and the CV settings don't match what's actually on the decoder. As for the loco moving off before the brakes blow off, this issue has well aired on this and other forums, the main cause being a poor sound file transfer from V3.5 to V4. On 417 for example, the brake blowing-off sound is missing altogether before it moves off, on the earlier V3.5 fitted Bach 37 it is present, and correctly blows off before the loco moves off. CV 63 (Vol) showing a reading of 180 confirms your loco is fitted with a V4 Loksound. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 3, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2013 The earlier thread is HERE SWD re-blew the v4.0 chip in my green Peak with excellent results, and will receive another one to re-blow shortly. Thank you very much for your help and pointer to the thread. I have decided that I will be contacting SWD to re-blow the chip as it is useless as it is and I have used SWD before and they were very good. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 3, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi I had the same issues with a sound fitted Bach 37 417. As for the CV readings etc, your Class 45 is fitted with a Lok V4, as is 37 417, but the operating instructions / CV settings that come with the locos are for the earlier V3.5 decoders. Hence nothing happens on F5 "notching" and the CV settings don't match what's actually on the decoder. As for the loco moving off before the brakes blow off, this issue has well aired on this and other forums, the main cause being a poor sound file transfer from V3.5 to V4. On 417 for example, the brake blowing-off sound is missing altogether before it moves off, on the earlier V3.5 fitted Bach 37 it is present, and correctly blows off before the loco moves off. CV 63 (Vol) showing a reading of 180 confirms your loco is fitted with a V4 Loksound. HTH I had noticed this thread before but wasn't sure if the same thing applied to the Peak as well. While I am pleased with the model in general (apart from the sound) I am very surprised that it should be shipped with such a poor quality feature and poor information which does not relate to the product - I sure this has already been said though. Thanks very much again for your reply. It is appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Have you thought of trying the sounds by Legomanbiffo. All his sounds are on Youtube. Just search on his name. He'll re-blow the chip for you. Cheers Dave Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 3, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2013 Have you thought of trying the sounds by Legomanbiffo. All his sounds are on Youtube. Just search on his name. He'll re-blow the chip for you. Cheers Dave Smith Thanks for the recommend. I have seen enough on RMWeb to understand that Legomanbiffo does an excellent job and I have also looked at his youtube videos - superb. It leaves me with a dilemma of course in that I have just the one loco but several recommendations for the re-blow. Just have to make a decision I guess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted January 9, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2013 Made a decision and sent the decoder off to Legomanbif. Received it back today (rapid turnround) and now everything works properly (sounds happen in the right place and time) and sounds like it should. Excellent job. Have to mention that SWD offered to reblow the chip with the current Bachmann files for the just the cost of return postage which I thought was good service (or a choice of their own version sounds for a resonable charge). I have been very happy with SWD products previously but decided on this occasion to try Bif and am very happy with the results as well. I will now be somewhat wary of buying any more locos with manufacturers sound files fitted - hope fully they will improve though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Made a decision and sent the decoder off to Legomanbif. Received it back today (rapid turnround) and now everything works properly (sounds happen in the right place and time) and sounds like it should. Excellent job. Have to mention that SWD offered to reblow the chip with the current Bachmann files for the just the cost of return postage which I thought was good service (or a choice of their own version sounds for a resonable charge). I have been very happy with SWD products previously but decided on this occasion to try Bif and am very happy with the results as well. I will now be somewhat wary of buying any more locos with manufacturers sound files fitted - hope fully they will improve though. Glad you like the Biffo sounds. Knew you would. I've given up on Manufacturers' sounds now and standardised on Biffo. This means all my sound locos use the same Function keys. Lovely! Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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