Building a C&L curved crossover in situ

[Dmudriver]

Evening all.

 

I'm building a layout based on West Kirby on the Wirral - the link to the thread describing it is in my signature at the bottom of this post.  I had some pointwork built for me but it was not very good at all, so I'm replacing it by building my own.  I've already built 4 x plain turnouts and one single slip: the building of the latter was chronicled in this forum, beginning in January this year.

 

Those were all built at my modelling desk, but I'm building the curved crossover in situ as I'm not sure I'd get the radii right otherwise.  As this is something new to me, I thought I'd start a thread to share my experience.

 

I bought 2 x B8 point kits from C&L as I wanted the biggest radius I could get with a ready made common crossing (I'm not yet confident enough to build my own common crossings).  These come with 2 templates each so I joined these up to make a crossover with track centres at 80mm distance.  This is how they looked when I'd sellotaped them together:

 

 

I did take a lot of care to make sure that the line through the crossing was dead straight and this is how it looked:

 

 

I chose one of the templates as a reference document and the other to be used on the layout.  This was trimmed and then cut most of the way through so that it would curve - as in this pic:

 

 

The curve is a lot sharper than on the layout!!

 

Having ripped up the old crossover (a bit more description is in the layout thread), I taped the template down to the layout in the place where the old one had been.  It needed a fair bit of time to get the radii correct but this is the finished article on which I will start to build:

 

 

You can see the outline of where the lifted track went previously.

 

I'll post this part of the saga now as I've found to my cost previously that it's very easy to delete something you've already written  (this is the second version of this post - the previous having disappeared when I tried to check a picture before I inserted it!!)

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Morning all (It's now past midnight!!)

 

A couple of points to add to the previous post.  1) I've not curved the template through the common crossings and 2)  I'm actually using Peco track and that will be relaid each side of this crossing once it's finished.

 

I cut the sleepers off the sprues and sorted them into lengths and set them out on the reference template.  When satisfied I'd got them all correct according to the plan, I stuck double-sided sellotape to the plan on the layout and laid the sleepers.  Following the instructions, I laid the outer rail (normally the straight one) first and then added the first common crossing, following the instructions and using the gauges.  I ended up with this:

 

 

I carried on, following the instructions - well, let's be honest here, I didn't follow them to start with as I thought I was experienced enough not to.  Wrong!!  I made a couple of little errors and thought I'd better refresh my memory!!!  After a while I had got this far and decided that was it for the night:

 

 

One thing I did learn from previous building was that the point blades, although machined, are not necessarily machined thinly enough.  There is one of my early points where the unaltered blade does narrow the gauge a little: nothing derails but the wheels on the odd vehicle do ride up a little.  Having tried them before gluing the chairs down, I filed down both blades on this point, but the left hand one - as you look at it in the pics - more than the other.  This was due to the curvature of the left stock rail.  The following 2 pics show the altered blades:

 

 

 

Not only do they look better but my most troublesome bogies pass through the point superbly.

 

A couple of observations:  1)  the curve diverging to the left looks quite sharp, but I checked it and it's actually 6' radius (which will do me fine!)  and 2)  I did not follow the curvature of the templates slavishly - I let the rail find it's own curve.   Using a mirror - as suggested in the instructions (and one of the things I forgot!!) - you can see the line of the rail so easily.

 

So that's it for tonight.  I hope it's useful.  I hope to get some more done tomorrow and hopefully finish by the weekend - or Monday at the latest.  Mind you, I have to fit in a visit to Cleckheaton on Saturday!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[asa]

You're doing just fine there Rod,it looks great.

[greenglade]

Hi Rod

 

All looks great to me.. the error that I made on my turnout was to have a rail upside down...I wasn't paying enough attention at the time..still as they say 'live and learn' luckily it wasn't a big job to correct it..I look forward to seeing more updates..oh and I wish I could build as fast as you and at that time of night too... top stuff...

 

Pete

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod

 

All looks great to me.. the error that I made on my turnout was to have a rail upside down...I wasn't paying enough attention at the time..still as they say 'live and learn' luckily it wasn't a big job to correct it..I look forward to seeing more updates..oh and I wish I could build as fast as you and at that time of night too... top stuff...

 

Pete

I've done that, too, Pete, but didn't get as far as actually laying the rail.  I wondered why the chairs were difficult to fit and then found what I was doing!!  As for the speed, I reckon I did that work in about 5 hours net, after stopping for phone calls and eating and a few cups of tea, too!!  So most of the afternoon and evening, really.  I don't really know if that's relatively fast or slow - it's just my speed.  I admit I am a bit pernickerty about my modelling - I do like to get it right - but that's the fun of it (to me, anyway!!)

 

Rod

[3 link]

Afternoon Rod,

 

I am in the process of finishing off my new ( Railway room ) and I will have an area of 19' x 16' at my disposal, so I would be grateful if you could tell me the overall length of your curved crossover.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Dmudriver]

Afternoon Rod,

 

I am in the process of finishing off my new ( Railway room ) and I will have an area of 19' x 16' at my disposal, so I would be grateful if you could tell me the overall length of your curved crossover.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

Hi Martin.

 

From point blade to point blade, it's just under 41.5".  That's at 80mm track centres.  A bit wider would increase the length, but not by much.  AS I've said above the radius on the diverging route is 6';  I estimate the outer curve on the point at around 10', although the tracks each side of the crossover curve at 6'6" on the inner track.

 

HTH.

 

Rod

[3 link]

Afternoon Rod,

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, those measurement will come in most handy, I have already realised that I cannot fit a quart in the pint pot . So hopefully Templot will come to my rescue and show me what will comfortably fit in the space I have available.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Rod,

 

You have made a good job of this crossover. But unfortunately you made a fundamental error at the start.

 

In a normal double-track crossover, both turnouts are always of the same hand. This is obvious on a straight crossover, but not so obvious for a curved one. To make a proper curved crossover you start with a straight crossover and bend the whole thing in one go.

 

The turnout on the left in your first picture should have been a left-hand turnout to match the other one. By using a right-hand turnout there, you have the switch deflection (and the set in the stock rail) on the running line side, with a corresponding severe speed restriction needed. Your model passengers are going to spill their coffee.

 

Had you used Templot, you could have saved yourself a lot of work. It's free, so there is nothing to lose in trying it. It can produce and print out templates for a proper curved crossover, on any radius you choose, with just a few clicks. No need to struggle to get two templates aligned, no need to make cuts and try to curve them, no worry about the resulting alignments and radius.

 

 

 

B-8 curved crossover in 0-MF, printed from Templot:

 

 

The full-size template:

regards,

 

martin.

[hayfield]

Rod

 

I dont know if I am teaching you to suck eggs but it may help others. On a curved turnout on the stock rail just before where the switch rail starts there should be either a set (bend in the rail) or a joggle, just before the start of the straight plaining. I cannot see on your photo if you have done that. In fact on all turnouts on the curved side there should always should be either a set or joggle. This stops the gauge from narrowing.

 

I must say its a nice bit of track building. As for time taken in building its neither fast or slow, as you become more proficent you will get quicker. But sometimes speed introduces errors!!. Just enjoy the build

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod,

 

You have made a good job of this crossover. But unfortunately you made a fundamental error at the start.

 

In a normal double-track crossover, both turnouts are always of the same hand. This is obvious on a straight crossover, but not so obvious for a curved one. To make a proper curved crossover you start with a straight crossover and bend the whole thing in one go.

 

The turnout on the left in your first picture should have been a left-hand turnout to match the other one. By using a right-hand turnout there, you have the switch deflection (and the set in the stock rail) on the running line side, with a corresponding severe speed restriction needed. Your model passengers are going to spill their coffee.

 

Had you used Templot, you could have saved yourself a lot of work. It's free, so there is nothing to lose in trying it. It can produce and print out templates for a proper curved crossover, on any radius you choose, with just a few clicks. No need to struggle to get two templates aligned, no need to make cuts and try to curve them, no worry about the resulting alignments and radius.

 

 

 

B-8 curved crossover in 0-MF, printed from Templot:

 

 

The full-size template:

regards,

 

martin.

 

Hi Rod,

 

You have made a good job of this crossover. But unfortunately you made a fundamental error at the start.

 

In a normal double-track crossover, both turnouts are always of the same hand. This is obvious on a straight crossover, but not so obvious for a curved one. To make a proper curved crossover you start with a straight crossover and bend the whole thing in one go.

 

The turnout on the left in your first picture should have been a left-hand turnout to match the other one. By using a right-hand turnout there, you have the switch deflection (and the set in the stock rail) on the running line side, with a corresponding severe speed restriction needed. Your model passengers are going to spill their coffee.

 

Had you used Templot, you could have saved yourself a lot of work. It's free, so there is nothing to lose in trying it. It can produce and print out templates for a proper curved crossover, on any radius you choose, with just a few clicks. No need to struggle to get two templates aligned, no need to make cuts and try to curve them, no worry about the resulting alignments and radius.

 

 

 

B-8 curved crossover in 0-MF, printed from Templot:

 

 

The full-size template:

regards,

 

martin.

Hi Martin.

 

Thanks for the reply.  You have taught me something I didn't know - as is obvious from the way I've built it!!!  I did think about Templot, but I've never sat down for long enough to try and understand it.  I'm working on a new layout with a pal from the Club, using a blank baseboard so I'll aim to use it for that.  For this layout, I wasn't sure what the actual maximum radius is (I think it's around 10' but can't be sure).   As I write this, something stirs in my brain about scanning an existing layout into Templot: am I right?

 

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean when you say:  " By using a right-hand turnout there, you have the switch deflection (and the set in the stock rail) on the running line side, with a corresponding severe speed restriction needed."  Can you explain about "switch deflection" and the "set in the stock rail" on the "running line" side" ?  Or point me in the direction of somewhere that explains it.

 

This is new to me and I want to learn and get it right for next time.

 

Although I've got it wrong, the point works from a model point of view, and hopefully others can learn - which was the object of the exercise - as well as me.

 

Look forward to your reply.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Rod

 

I dont know if I am teaching you to suck eggs but it may help others. On a curved turnout on the stock rail just before where the switch rail starts there should be either a set (bend in the rail) or a joggle, just before the start of the straight plaining. I cannot see on your photo if you have done that. In fact on all turnouts on the curved side there should always should be either a set or joggle. This stops the gauge from narrowing.

 

I must say its a nice bit of track building. As for time taken in building its neither fast or slow, as you become more proficent you will get quicker. But sometimes speed introduces errors!!. Just enjoy the build

 

Hi John.

 

Thanks for the comment.  As it happens, yes, I did bend the stock rail just before the start of the straight planing, but as you point out, it doesn't show up in the photo.  As you'll have seen from my comments, I have had a slight bit of a problem with gauge narrowing on one of my earlier points and part of that problem turned out to be the bend in the stock rail being behind the start of the point blade - added to which I didn't thin the blade down.  I did learn from that, though!!  Most stock is OK, just one or two vehicles lift up a bit, but not enough to derail.

 

Rod

[greenglade]

I've learnt something here too thanks to Martin....I have played with templot and quickly learnt how to make a template for the one turnout that I have built to date but will need to sit down and really study it to try and get the best from it. Rod I think as a laymen on the subject what Martin is describing is that by not using the correct handed turnouts you are upsetting the flow of the curve and hence why there would be a speed restriction in place.Basically the train begins to curve in, then hits the short change in curve or worse and then continues it's curve coming out the other side of the crossover... hence why he says that the passengers coffee will be spilt, I stand to be corrected if wrong of course.. Makes sense and has certainly taught me something... now I also need to get to grips with importing a diagram into templot.. I have a few candidates for my planned layout... real locations along the Waverley route that tick most of my boxes...perhaps a bit ambitious and not possible with the current room available to me (not counting the garden that is) but hey we all have to have our dreams...

 

Keep the updates coming Rod...

 

Pete

[martin_wynne]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean when you say:  " By using a right-hand turnout there, you have the switch deflection (and the set in the stock rail) on the running line side, with a corresponding severe speed restriction needed."  Can you explain about "switch deflection" and the "set in the stock rail" on the "running line" side" ?

 

Hi Rod,

 

The switch is the part of a turnout comprising the moving points (blades). Here's a diagram of a left-hand switch. Notice that there is a sharp bend or "set" in the left-hand stock rail immediately in front of the blade tip, to allow for the planing angle on the blade:

 

 

On one route there is no deflection angle -- the line of the rails is uninterrupted through the switch, either straight or following the ruling curve in the track. There is no additional speed restriction needed over this "straight ahead" route, and in almost all cases it corresponds to the "normal" position for the lever in the signal box.

 

When the points (blades) are moved across to the other route, wheels are deflected to one side at an angle, causing the need for a speed restriction. This almost always corresponds to the "reverse" position for the lever in the signal box. Here's a picture where you can see the bend in the stock rail where wheels are deflected at an angle when the route is set to the left. The points are lying in the "normal" straight ahead position:

 

Thanks to Rod Cameron

 

Here's another picture. This time the bend in the stock rail is to the right for approaching traffic, and the points are again lying in the "normal" straight ahead position:

 

Thanks to Mick Nicholson

 

The handedness of a switch is important because it affects the speed limits through it. Vehicles travelling on the main road see no sideways deflection and can continue at the line speed. Vehicles travelling onto the the turnout road are suddenly diverted to the left or right at the switch deflection angle. For the shorter switches this is a significant deflection and there is normally a severe speed restriction over the diverging road for this reason.

 

In the case of a crossover, the switch deflection is always arranged to be towards the middle crossing-over road, so that vehicles on both running lines see no deflection and can proceed at full line speed. This means that in a crossover both turnouts are always of the same hand, even if the crossover is curved.

 

Here are some notes of mine about setting the curved stock rail for REA undercut switches which I've posted before, but worth perhaps repeating.

 

The common REA bullhead A, B, etc. switches are "semi-curved" designs. For an ordinary straight turnout, that means there is a straight portion over the length of the tapered planing (machining) on the switch blade, and only beyond that the switch rail is curved. Here's the diagram again to explain it:

 

 

Straight turnout:

 

To make a size B curved stock rail for a straight turnout, do this:

 

1. Make two marks on the rail with a fine felt-tip pen, 51.3mm apart in 7mm scale, 29.3mm apart in 4mm scale.

 

2. At the first mark make the "set", a sharply-defined shallow bend. Sharply-defined means that it is very clearly in one particular place on the rail, a kink, not a curve. Shallow means it is a very slight angle (1:32). It's very easy to overdo the angle, but you can flatten it back by squeezing the rail in flat pliers. Here's a simple way of making the bend:

 

3. Make sure the section of rail between there and the next mark is dead straight. Don't inadvertently curve it.

 

4. Beyond the second mark you can gently curve the rail between your fingers.

 

5. Lay the rail on the template. If it is a Templot template the two marks will be on the template. You can align the rail over the template and check that the set angle matches the template. Time spent at this stage checking and adjusting will be well repaid later. If you have stuck the timbers on the template, it is worth printing off another one to check the rail against more easily.

 

6. Fix the straight stock rail first, it is just plain rail.

 

7. Start fixing the curved stock rail at the switch front, gauging from the straight stock rail in the usual way. Don't go beyond the set yet.

 

8. Transfer your attention to the second mark, location X in the diagram above where the rails begin to diverge. Measure the "stock gauge", that's the distance between the two stock rails at this location, i.e. between X and Y in the diagram. It should be exactly one rail width greater than the track gauge.

 

For 7mm scale that means:

 

0-MF stock gauge = 31.5 + 1.6 = 33.1mm

 

GOG-F stock gauge = 32.0 + 1.6 = 33.6mm

 

S7 stock gauge = 33.0 + 1.6 = 34.6mm

 

 

For 4mm scale that means:

 

00-SF stock gauge = 16.20 + 0.92 = 17.12mm

 

EM stock gauge = 18.20 + 0.92 = 19.12mm

 

P4 stock gauge = 18.83 + 0.92 = 19.75mm

 

If you don't have a suitable means of making this measurement, you can improvise by combining an oddment of rail with your track gauge tool.

 

9. If the stock gauge is correct, you can fix the stock rail at X. If it isn't, you may be able to adjust the set bend slightly in situ. If it is a long way out, you should remove the stock rail and correct the set bend angle. Don't try to correct the stock gauge by curving the rail, the section between the marks must be dead straight as shown.

 

10. If all is well, you can now fix the rail between the marks, checking with a straight-edge that it is dead straight. Then work forward over the curved section, aligning to the template.

 

For an A switch, the dimension between the marks is shortened to 38.5mm (7mm scale) or 22.0mm (4mm scale) (i.e. the set angle is 1:24). The stock-gauge remains the same as before.

 

A bit of practice helps of course. Don't expect to get it perfect on your very first turnout. You will soon discover the importance of checking the rail against the template before starting to fix it down.

 

11. If you get it right you will find adding the switch blades later is dead easy. They will seat properly along the full length of the planing and almost gauge themselves.

 

More diagrams and notes about all this at: http://www.templot.c...s_realtrack.htm

 

which also shows the modified joggled arrangement used on the GWR, and for REA straightcut switches in facing locations.

 

Curved turnout:

 

For a curved turnout the procedure is essentially the same, and it's a good idea to prepare the stock rail first as if it was for a straight turnout. The difference is that the dead straight section should then be curved to match the running-line radius for the turnout. In other words the orange-coloured sections on the diagram above are all either straight or all curved to the same radius. The "turnout radius" begins only where the rails diverge.

 

In the case of a curved turnout with contraflexure, for example the inner turnout in a curved crossover, this "turnout radius" may be a larger radius than the running line radius.

 

The stock gauge and lengths remain unchanged. To get this right, it's a good idea to print a rails-only copy of the template on tracing paper, and lay it on top of the rails during construction to check the alignments.

 

Two more pictures showing the "set" bend on an LNER switch, these kindly supplied by Mick Nicholson. You can see that the "set" is on one side only:

 

 

 

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Martin

 

In reply to your last post, can I just repeat the message back to you (in approved railway fashion!) to make sure I have understood it.  (Well, not all if it, but a part,at least.)

 

The way I have done it (left and right hand points) means that - referring to your diagram "B-8 curved crossover in 0-MF, printed from Templot" - a train moving from right to left along the bottom track, is going to follow the ruling curve, then run along a straight section and then hit the "set" before going back onto the ruling curve again.  I assume this is when the coffee gets spilled??!!

 

If I had done it the correct way, the "set" would have been behind the right hand point blade, which would give a smooth run through.  Trains going over the crossover - say from left to right - would hit the set on the left of the lower middle rail and, later, the set on the right in the upper middle rail?

 

From a modelling point of view, I would think I could get away with the way I've set it up, due to the tolerances, but I will try not putting a set in the lower rail and thinning the point blade.  Maybe I wouldn't get away with it in S7?

 

I do appreciate your comments - they have (subject to whether you agree with my interpretation!!) helped my understanding of point design and building.

 

Rod

 

[martin_wynne]

The way I have done it (left and right hand points) means that - referring to your diagram "B-8 curved crossover in 0-MF, printed from Templot" - a train moving from right to left along the bottom track, is going to follow the ruling curve, then run along a straight section and then hit the "set" before going back onto the ruling curve again.  I assume this is when the coffee gets spilled??!!

 

Hi Rod,

 

Yes.

 

If I had done it the correct way, the "set" would have been behind the right hand point blade, which would give a smooth run through.  Trains going over the crossover - say from left to right - would hit the set on the left of the lower middle rail and, later, the set on the right in the upper middle rail?

 

Yes, that's correct. The set in the stock rail will be always on the side leading to the crossover road, regardless of any curving, and even if that rail is otherwise effectively straight.

 

There will then be a smooth uninterrupted radius along both the main roads (running lines).

 

Templot makes a curved crossover with just a few clicks (tools > make simple crossover menu item) and marks the position of the set on the template, so it's just a matter of making the rail match the template:

 

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

A successful day's modelling today - nice and easy, with plenty of cups of tea and breaks in the sunshine!!

 

The majority of the work on the crossover is done and I took a few pics to show it as I progressed.  The first carries on from where I left off previously:  I've now set out the sleepers for the second point and the first stock rail is being tried out after bending.

 

 

The second shows the first stock rail in position, the common crossing fitted in relation to it - obviously using the gauges - and the other stock rail fitted.  

 

 

The fan in the background is not there because it was really warm today!!  It's to blow away the fumes from the Butanone!!!

 

I think I've mentioned before about using a mirror - it's so much easier than trying to get your head down to track level to look along the line of the track!!  So I couldn't resist taking this pic to show how it looks through the mirror.  Basically the same pic as before (if a bit out of focus!) but I didn't have to move from my stool to take it!!

 

 

Having cut and bent the point blades, I fitted them using the gauges and the final result looks like this:

 

 

The next pic is a view from the opposite end of the crossover:

 

 

The light flooding across the baseboard is the evening sun shining in through the open door!!

 

You may notice that I've extended the sleepers from the second point alongside the first.  This was because the rail was long enough and it will make butting up the Peco track easier.  It's a pity I didn't think of it when I laid the first one!!!

 

After reading Martin's comments above, I decided not to put a set and straight planing into the rail nearer the front of the board.  I did consider putting it in the first stock rail - where it should go really - but after checking the fitting of the blade at the stage in the first pic, I did not feel I would gain any benefit as the point blade fitted very well, with only a little filing needed.  The other blade, going against the other stock rail which curves at a 6' radius, did need more filing but I've got it fitting very well.  I found in my toolbox (I'd forgotten it was there!!) a roller gauge and I used that to check the gauge at the blades.  They were perfectly gauged!!

 

The last pic is a cruel close up of the blade against the 6' radius stock rail:

 

 

It looks like there might be a bit of gauge narrowing, but the roller gauge doesn't show it.  The left hand blade is also a snug fit against its stock rail.

 

There's still work to do:  the JLTRT tie bars to make up and fit, then the Tortoise motors to fit.  There's the bonding wires from blades to stock rails and the feed wire to the frogs also to fit.  Then to lay the track on each side of the cross over to link up with the existing.  I'll post more as I progress.

 

I have to say, though, that I am really pleased with this.  Making it in situ is a bit more difficult than on the work desk, but not much.  Making curved points instead of straight is no more difficult and I'm really pleased with the flow of the curves I've got through the crossover.  I've checked my most troublesome bogies through it and they have no problem, so I am a happy bunny.

 

As a matter of interest, I used the roller gauge to check the clearances in the pointwork I'd built previously.  I'm improving!!  There was gauge narrowing at pretty well all of the point blades, but no more than 0.5mm.  Just proves the more you do, the more you learn!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Well, it's all finished!!  Following on from my last thread, the first thing I did was to fit the track on each side of the crossover, even though I said it would be the last thing!!  I did this first just to be sure the crossover was in the right place.  It was, and I'm really happy with the flow I've got through it.  This is a general pic of it in place.

 

 

The next job was to fit the tiebars.  I use JLTRT, even though the kit contains the Ambis ones.   I couldn't understand the Ambis instructions and I've used JLTRT before so I stuck with them.  I superglued the 2 pieces to a strip of plasticard to isolate them and then soldered them in place.  The following pic shows the result:

 

 

Close ups can be very cruel and it looks as though the tiebars could have fitted into the web of the rail a bit better, but they work - that's what counts!!  I then fitted the Tortoise motors.  This I do not find an easy task, particularly on your own!!  However, I use a piece of double sided sticky tape to hold the motor to the board before I put the screws in.  If you not too rough with it, the tape will hold.  I was fortunate that both of these points were close enough to the edge of the board that I could get my arm under the board while looking down the hole to gauge the correct position.

 

I've used thicker wire than that supplied with the motors as I've found that can be a bit too weak and springy .

 

The third pic shows the finished crossover from the other end.  You can just see the bonding wires from stock rails to blades and also the feed wires to the stock rails.  Once the track's ballasted and painted, those wires are not so obvious.  You can't see the feed wires to the frogs as they are away from the viewing side.  However, everything now works, stock runs through it perfectly and, all in all, I'm well chuffed.

 

 

One final point.  You'll see that I've nailed the track down and that the nails are in between the rails rather than outside, on the ends of the sleepers.  Nails in the centre was frowned on when I started doing it - people saying the track would curl up.  I've never found that.  Maybe in the days of thin sleepers (especially in 4 mm) it may have happened, but with thick sleepers like Peco or C&L, I've never had a problem.  Plus, I've also found nailed-down track quieter than glued.  Once painted, the nails are really not that obvious.

 

So, I hope this has been useful.  I've certainly enjoyed doing it and I do look forward to doing more - if not on this layout, a new venture at the Club is beckoning!!  Thank you for your comments - particularly Martin Wynne who brought me up with a jolt - and a few others, too, I think!!!

 

My layout continues to progress, but that's documented on my layout thread.  So that's it from me for this thread.  Bye for now.

 

Rod