Cassette construction

[Pete 75C]

Having spent many years wasting fiddle yard space with small radius points, the use of cassettes appeals to me. I know from searching RMWeb that there are almost as many different methods as there are layouts.

I need to be able to remove, replace and turn around a loco and 3 coaches or a 4 car emu. I would imagine that's pretty much the limit on length (in 4mm) before the cassette becomes unmanageable?

In short, I'm thinking of constructing some 3'6" cassettes and using foam pads of some sort to protect against roll-off. For those of you that use cassettes, how high are the sides on yours? Are they the full height of the rolling stock or just high enough to guard against  a sideways fall-off?

I'm not short on timber and I have enough woodworking machinery here to guarantee that I won't waste a lot of time if I get it wrong, but I'm just curious as to the experience of others.

One last thing, those of you that use slightly opened-out rail joiners for an electrical connection... the simplicity of that appeals to me (I'm not great with a soldering iron), but surely after time they become such a sloppy fit that the electrical connection deteriorates?

Thanks, Pete.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Pete 75C

[clecklewyke]

I would strongly recommend looking up Chris Pendlenton's article in MRJ No 27. I believe this was the first published description of cassette fiddle yards. He uses aluminium angle on a P4 layout. If yours is OO you will need bigger section angle.

 

Some points:

 

1) have short cassettes for locos and longer cassettes for rolling stock. This allows the locos to be removed from the train and turned, without turning the whole train. This will allow the use of longer cassettes/trains. Long cassettes are unwieldly so are best not turned.

 

2) do put a strip of plasticard of equal thickness to the aluminium between the "rails". This allows stock to be rerailed very easily - the flanges just drop into the grooves between the aluminium and plasticard.

 

3) don't skimp on joints between cassettes and between them and the running rails. Accuracy and robustness are essential.

 

4) make the deck for the cassettes smooth and very level, to allow cassettes to slide around it easily.

 

5) do make a fence at the edge of the cassette deck to prevent stock falling off.

 

6) in Chris' design the cassette deck forms the lid of a stock box. This box has brackets, on which cassettes can be placed, so stock can be put away for storage/transport without removing them from the cassettes.

 

7) some aluminium angle is heavily oxidised and does not conduct electricity well. Look for the shiny types and if you have an avometer, check the conductivity of it before buying. If all fails, the anodised version can be use but it requires the oxidised layer to be filed off - save yourself that work!

 

8) standardise on the thickness of the support to the aluminium angle. Chris used strip wood but MDF can also be used - I use 8mm thick MDF (usually- I confess to having used other offcuts when exhibition deadlines have loomed!)

 

I've used cassettes on all my layouts and, having cut corners and tried my own ideas, always fallen back on Chris' designs. He has really thought them through very thoroughly. I'll try to post some photos of mine later today.

I'll try to post some photos of my set up later today.

[Pete 75C]

Much appreciated, thank you.

Stock for this project will be mainly dmu/emu but for loco-hauled, obviously the less you have to handle the loco, the better. For the cassettes, I have plenty of Code 100 flexi lying around so it would make sense to use this. I've heard that for removing and replacing locos, a lot of people use the Peco loco lift which I believe just sits over the Code 100? I'm not too keen on the aluminium angle - mainly because I'd have to buy some and I'm tight! No, simply because I have plenty of stripwood available for the sides and it makes sense to use what I have. I do however like the rerailer idea.

Lots of good tips - thanks again. Pete.

[edcayton]

Loco lifts do just sit over code 100/settrack. I have used one as a "bridge " from the baseboard to a home made "fiddlestick". I agree with Clecklewyke about the idea of having short cassettes for loco's and not turning the longer train cassettes-it gives me palpitations at exhibitions to see long cassettes with expensive stock being turned in mid air!

 

Ed

[Pete 75C]

Loco lifts do just sit over code 100/settrack. I have used one as a "bridge " from the baseboard to a home made "fiddlestick". I agree with Clecklewyke about the idea of having short cassettes for loco's and not turning the longer train cassettes-it gives me palpitations at exhibitions to see long cassettes with expensive stock being turned in mid air!

 

Ed

 

Agreed - I've just got hold of a 4' spirit level and had a go at holding it in the centre and turning it around whilst trying to keep it (relatively) level... it is do-able (just) but even a glancing blow with any obstruction would surely spill the stock onto the floor! I think short cassettes or loco-lifts are probably the way to go.

[griffgriff]

You could devise some buffers either end, I've seen sponge and plasticard slotted into the angle do the job. Additionally might I suggest some handles to help with moving the cassettes?

[chris p bacon]

I have to make some up as well, I was thinking along the lines of ply/mdf base with peco 100 (I have lots) ripping up some more ply and fixing at the sides of the 100, rebating it so it fits over the sleeper ends so only the rail is visible, this would act as a re-railer, I intend making the sides just a bit higher than the stock so they can stack on each other. Hope this makes sense.

[BlackRat]

I use mdf as a base, with strip wood sides, tho would probably now use mdf.

 

Peco code 75 is pinned and glued to the base, as the rail acts like strengthening girders!

 

Add a couple of bent nails, and a couple of crocodile clips and hey presto.....

 

 

It's fairly simple but effective.

 

 

I am in the process of adding some copper clad strip to the ends of the running lines, but you get the idea.

 

Been using it now for about 6 years with no probs at all, apart from the odd derailment which is usually due to me not lining up e ends properly!

[BlackRat]

I should have added the following.....

 

 

 

Bits of hi density packing foam are cut to shape and act as stop ends when you are picking up and rotating the cassettes.

 

Any length up to a loco and three mark 1's is manageable, not much more but then at goes beyond the scope of the cassettes really.

[Pete 75C]

This is excellent and all really useful - many thanks!

Like Dave, I'll be using Code 100 just because I happen to have some. I also quite like the bent nail and croc. clip idea. I can just about get on with basic soldering. Using slightly opened out rail joiners... I'm not sure that's a long term solution, but I have seen it used before. I think with plenty of use, the electrical continuity will become unreliable.

Slots for a ply end stop or even just foam, as in BlackRat's picture is also a must, I think.

I do plan to add a handle to each cassette, but not so much for turning them around, more to aid with transporting them.

Dave - if you take the ply sides right up close to the rail, mind the paintwork on your stock!

Pete.

[Crewlisle]

Pete, I use 4.5 ft long cassettes on my DCC controlled 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle'. I have had no problems with them after 35 years use and when I fit/remove them I just hold my hands over the ends and lower them down onto the rack directly under the baseboard!

 

Someone else asked this question 18 months ago. If you look under Layout and Track Design, 'Cassette and Fiddle Yard Access', Comment 2 on 28/3/2012 you will find a full description of how mine are fitted together with drawings and how to build them. Any further questions post them here.

 

Peter

Edited November 30, 2013 by Crewlisle

[Tel2010]

Hi Pete 

here's a link to cassettes i built.I soldered wire to rail ends so it would be joined by simply pusheing cassette up to it.And off you drive.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58638-cheap-homemade-loco-liftstorage-cassete/?fromsearch=1

 

All the above are great ideas too,im in process of rebuilding my layout so some of the above is useful information to me ,as ill be either usuing cassettes or a fiddle yard turntable.Thanks

 

Tel

[clecklewyke]

I promised some pictures of my cassettes: here they are.

 

A loco cassette and train cassette plugged in and ready for right away from the signalman. 

 

 

Cassettes about to be joined showing the robust "tongues". I do not think fishplates or bits of wire are robust enough to maintain good physical and electrical connections in the rough and tumble of repeated use, especially at exhibitions.

 

 

The joint completed - no room for error and a nice smooth connection.

 

 

An end view showing how the inset layer of plasticard creates grooves into which flanges easily drop.

 

 

I suppose if you have a lot of old code 100 etc. track to use up then that might be a way to go but I'm sure that it is much simpler and more effective to use aluminium angle as shown above, probably cheaper too. Remember you will need to keep adding new cassettes whenever you get more trains. Have you enough spare code 100 or will you need to buy more?

 

Ian

Edited November 30, 2013 by clecklewyke

[chaz]

Have a look at posting #21 on the first page of...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58132-dock-green/

 

These cassettes are for a 7mm exhibition layout but aspects of the design might be of interest to you.

 

Chaz

[Pete 75C]

Chaz - you've turned the humble cassette into an art form. Very impressive!

Ian, many thanks for that. With my "modest" soldering skills, I just need to hit upon a method of getting power from the track to the cassette that works for me. As for the Code 100, yes - I have a lifetime's supply lying around and I also have plenty of MDF and stripwood. That's the only reason I doubt I'll use the aluminium angle! Quick question to any DCC cassette users - if using aluminium cassettes with DCC, when connected, doesn't that create a bit of an issue?

Tel2010 - I like your take on the loco lift. I think (bearing in mind I'll be using Code 100 for the cassettes), I'll get hold of a couple of Peco lifts so they can be used anywhere along the length of the cassette.

Crewlisle, I'll find that thread later today.

Many thanks again to all - this really is useful stuff!

Have a great Sunday all, it's training day so I need to go drink lots of coffee and get a lifeboat wet. Pete.

[chaz]

Chaz - you've turned the humble cassette into an art form. Very impressive!

 

Quick question to any DCC cassette users - if using aluminium cassettes with DCC, when connected, doesn't that create a bit of an issue?

...

Pete.

 

Art form is pitching a little high, Pete.

 

There is one problem which we encountered a couple of times when exhibiting Dock Green. You definitely MUST NOT stop a loco on a cassette by removing the electrical connection (in our case by removing a Bulldog clip). If you do this the loco will bide its time and when its reconnected it may take off at a rate of knots. I did this and a heavy O gauge Heljan diesel takes some stopping! One of my operating team managed to intervene before a cassette full of stock was bodily pushed over the far end of the layout - a disaster averted  

 

Otherwise I can't see any problems inherent with the cassette/DCC combination that wouldn't apply equally to DC...or have I missed something?

 

Chaz

[Wizard of the Moor]

Quick question to any DCC cassette users - if using aluminium cassettes with DCC, when connected, doesn't that create a bit of an issue?

Apart from the need to stop locos before disconnecting the cassette, the other thing to be aware of is that a typical DCC supply will give a noticable electric shock when you grasp the sides of the cassette. Putting insulating tape down the sides of the aluminium angle prevents this. It also stops short circuits occurring if two cassettes should touch, for example, on a double track connection to a fiddle yard.

 

I use the Pendlenton design on Waterloo Street and have nothing but praise for it.

[Pete 75C]

the other thing to be aware of is that a typical DCC supply will give a noticable electric shock when you grasp the sides of the cassette.

 

That's what I was wondering! ...

[Gordon H]

Just wondering...

Why do you need to turn your EMU round?

Isn't that the whole point of MU working - they don't need turning?

[Pete 75C]

Just wondering...

Why do you need to turn your EMU round?

Isn't that the whole point of MU working - they don't need turning?

 

No, don't worry, I won't be - that really would be a classic waste of time! 80% EMU / DMU, but 20% loco-hauled and parcels, it's these that will need to be re-configured. Rather than turn the whole cassette, as said, I quite like the idea of a loco-lift.

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Guys.

 

Here's my take on Cassettes.

 

I've fitted mine with a spring steel clip (call it a kind of Fishplate) (made from B&Q Greenhouse Glass Clips) so that there are no other connections to be made other than 'plugging' them together.

 

The MDF base is wider than the ali strips. This means that when 2 cassettes are tight next to one another there is still room to get your fingers down between them.

 

The ali is screwed to the MDF and keeps it from warping.

 

Always buy your (non-anodised) ali from the same supplier so the thickness doesn't vary.

 

The ali has a 1mm overhang each end of the MDF so no gaps appear in the 'running rails'.

 

Have cassettes to fit train lengths. ie coach rakes, locos etc., etc.

 

A short 2" 'cassette' forms a permanent end to the layout tracks.

 

Fit 'between the rails' re-railers.

 

A micro switch is incorporated into the 'permanent' bit activated by a cassette, so that if no cassette is present, a portion of the approach track is 'dead', thus preventing a driver running a train onto a non-existent cassette. Choose your own length to suit your layout. If you need to shunt within this 'dead' area, do so under the use of a push button that needs holding in.

 

Cheers

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PGC]

Thanks for this post, Dave, I'm just getting round to thinking how to make the cassettes for my layout and this is a very timely post that helps me a lot.

 

Phil

[Dunmar]

Hi Pete,

Wish I had noticed this earlier  ! Here is my take on the ' cassette ' as used on ' Kinlochewe '. Not my own idea - it came from my colleague Greig ' Poulton-le-Fylde '. The construction uses 12mm mdf as the base with 7mm sides - glued + screwed. A piece of plastic beading is fixed on each side and at each end - leaving enough of a gap to insert a 60 thou plasticard end plate.

The power is transferred to each cassette via sections of brass rod + tubing, which is soldered to 4 brass screws embedded in the end of each base. The power then passed to the track from the screw via a short length of wire.

I have four cassettes at 4ft and two smaller ones at 2ft. I have been using them at my last 2 exhibitions and they always cause quite a bit of attention.

For my next layout I intend to replace the mdf with 'Gilflex' cable trunking - as it will be lighter.

Hope this helps.

Bill.

[Pete 75C]

Thanks for that Bill. I like the "double whammy" of both alignment and electrical continuity using the tube + rod. Pete.

[BlackRat]

Just discovered this thread this afternoon.

BlackRat - Some excellent ideas there regarding cassettes. How wide are the bases on your cassettes?

I'll measure one later, but if I remember correctly they are 3" I think.

 

I bought a sheet of MDF at B&Q and had it machine cut as it's more accurate and of course free!

 

I've never had alignment issues or connectivity probs, nice and simple, line of site and it all works more or less perfectly.