Horse sense

[burgundy]

Having done a google search through previous threads, I have only been able to find one discussion about painting horses in Mikkel's blog. Since Vintner's Yard is going to need a few, I thought I would check the collective wisdom of RMWeb members for ideas. Horses must feature quite prominently in the military modelling world and in figure painting, so I assume that there should be plenty of knowledge and experience out there?
Below are photos of the horses that I have been working on

and some that are being recycled from a previous layout (hence the odd bits of harness waving around and the attached figure).

I think I would mark these about Beta minus at the moment (trying, but still some way to go).

The mixture of animals in the photos represents a slightly random collection of castings  that are currently available. Those in harness are presumably intended for light delivery trolleys, carts and suchlike; the large grey looks like a heavy horse but there are a couple of unharnessed animals that seem to be somewhere between the two in size. What might they have been used for?   
Have I got too many greys? My impression is that the “typical” colour for a horse is probably chestnut. Are there rules about the colouring of the mane and tail for particular colours or breeds? 
Most of my brown paint colours have been collected with weathering in mind. I think I probably need some rather richer browns – does anyone have any suggestions please?
I assume that working harness in the 19th century would have been simple leatherwork  with steel links and buckles? Or should there be other colours evident, for example in the collar? 
Any other suggestions would, of course, be welcome.
Best wishes
Eric

[richard i]

have you chatted with Dart castings team, they were very helpful in ensuring i had the "correct" horse for the cart i had selected?

Richard

[Talltim]

Where is Horsetan when you need him?

[burgundy]

Oh dear. Have I asked a question for which there are no experts on RMWeb? Surely not.

Best wishes

Eric

[Horsetan]

...Those in harness are presumably intended for light delivery trolleys, carts and suchlike; the large grey looks like a heavy horse but there are a couple of unharnessed animals that seem to be somewhere between the two in size. What might they have been used for?   

I can only see one unharnessed horse in your photos - the bay one (brown coat, black mane and tail). It looks more like a heavy hunter, to be ridden rather than driven.

 

Have I got too many greys? My impression is that the “typical” colour for a horse is probably chestnut. Are there rules about the colouring of the mane and tail for particular colours or breeds? 

There are also bays (which are quite common), dappled greys, fleabitten greys, dun, blue roan, strawberry roan (which can vary from almost chestnut to silver depending on time of year), cremellos....the list is quite extensive. Also, you might find white horses (which are actually grey) and black (which are technically very very very very very dark bay).

 

Most of my brown paint colours have been collected with weathering in mind. I think I probably need some rather richer browns – does anyone have any suggestions please?

Darker browns should do to start with.

 

I assume that working harness in the 19th century would have been simple leatherwork  with steel links and buckles? Or should there be other colours evident, for example in the collar? ...

There used to be a website that explained the various harness types in the 1800s, but I think it's been taken down....

[skipepsi]

I think some people are reluctant to claim expertise maybe individual pictures of horses and the situations you propose putting them in will draw out some ideas as to how apropiate they are?

[petethemole]

I started a reply yesterday but it was a bit rambling so I deleted it. I'll try to be more coherent. I would recommend spending some time on horse-related sites to get an idea of colours, breeds and types. Search on draft horse, heavy horse work horse etc.

 

Colours: mainly in the brown range including chestnut, bay and brown. Black less common except in the heavier horses, Shires and Shire-based, these usually with white feet/socks.  Greys were probably more common as carriage horses than on carts etc. 

 

Types: The heaviest horses for draught work were Shires and Clydesdales (basically a Scottish Shire), typically used for heavy loads incuding brewery drays. The sizes ranged down from that depending on the needs of the owners and what they were pulling. Lighter draft horses weren't that different from riding horses and it was not unusual for horses to be both during their lives (see Black Beauty).

 

I'm not an 'expert' but hope this is of some help. Period art and photographs may be of use.

 

Pete

[Arthur]

No, I've consulted the oracle, otherwise known as my wife, Val. She has been involved with horses for years and we keep them here. So, with the caveat that she has thoroughbreds/hunters (a thoroughbred with a bit of draught horse in it to make it more robust) and not heavy horses...

 

Yes, Greys are less common, they are born iron grey and get gradually whiter with age. We lost a grey hunter at the grand age of 27, iron grey as a youngster, he was white by the time he died. So, in terms of the average, your group is a bit grey heavy but there's no reason why a small group would actually reflect that average.

 

No, Chestnuts, reddish body, mane and tail are not the most common.

 

The most common are Bays, brown/dark brown bodies with black manes and tails and usually black on the legs and tips of the ears.

 

There are Browns, brown bodies, manes and tails.

 

Remember though, we are talking natural colours here, there are huge variations, and the above descriptions are simplified, e.g. Bay's range from near chestnut to near black but they ALWAYS have the black tail and main.

 

There are also Roans (3 types), Blacks (all black), Duns, Piebalds (white with irregular black patches) and Skewbalds (white with any other colour of patch). Bet you wish you hadn't asked now.......

 

This might help in terms of visualisation,

 

https://www.breyerhorses.com/horse_colors

 

 

Can't help overmuch with the tack though leather with steel, probably wrought iron fittings in earlier years, seems the most likely.

 

Finally, your models passed the scrutiny of my wife. She is quite picky, with drawings and sculptures etc., she likes them to have the correct proportions, nothing arty!!

 

The only observation was that the rump on the high stepping grey was too high, it gives a sunken back appearance.

 

Hope that helps.

[burgundy]

Thanks to all for the comments - in particular Horsetan, Petethemole and Arthur.

My knowledge of horses is rudimentary, being based on spending many hours waiting outside a draughty riding school for younger daughter, who went through the "pony" phase some years ago.

The photos were posted at the stage when I had made a first attempt at painting and decided that more work was needed. It seemed sensible to take advice before doing it all wrong again. As a result of the suggestions, I think one of the greys will return to the paintshop and come out bay and the black horse with harness probably needs some white socks or a blaze on the face.

The 6 horses with harness are fairly easy to employ, as I have a couple of vehicles waiting for them. The other horses present more of a challenge. The heavy horse, which Arthur points out has a rather sunken back, is, I am afraid, sculpted that way and I am not sure that there is much that I can do about her (the legs are a bit dodgy as well). Careful positioning may make this a bit less obvious. The unharnessed horse at the left of the top photo is actually the same casting as the grey on the right of the third photo (with the handler horizontal on the ground). The grey version has had a simple halter fashioned out of thread and is attached to the man, who is meant to be leading it. Quite what a couple of riding horses and a single heavy horse might be doing in a mainly industrial/warehouse area may take a bit of thought.   

Again, many thanks for the suggestions.

Best wishes

Eric