lofty1966 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Being a cheapskate and enjoying a challenge I have three Hornby Dia H33 coaches in my possession (they were all too cheap to say no) One has already been gently modified (ruined? ) by me , I.E. Shell vents replaced , underframe re-jiggled and Comet corridor connectors and Jumper cables added along with some wire handrails. So reading on here that the Dia H25's were very similar I thought I might have a crack at butchering one into something that resembles the H25. Looking at Russells books and reading on here, I can see that the H25 has flat ends and it appears one smaller centre kitchen window. First question is , did they have the earlier style windows ala Hornbys H33 when first built and then the "BR MK1" style fitted later ? Anyone got any pointers as to other differences ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Both built with original windows and went through the same rebuilds over time, ending up with the Mk1 style windows. Note H25 bogies inset more than the H33 for some reason Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The biggest difference appears to be the bogie centres and the associated underframe differences. This is what I posted in the H33 thread: Looking at Russell's Appendix 2, both the photos of the H33 (fig 199, rebuilt, shirtbutton) and that of the very similar H25 (fig 175, rebuilt, BR) show three battery boxes. Two are in the conventional locations on the corridor side*, and the third, smaller one is on the kitchen side, closer to the centre of the coach at the third-class end. The dynamo is also under the third class end. On the H33**, the gas cylinders extend a little beyond the verticals of the underframe truss at each end and are smaller diameter than the Comet ones (which is why I used the Ratio 4-wheeler ones). The third battery box is just to the third class end of them, basically beneath, and the same width as, the panel between the double door and the first of the third class windows. The dynamo is beneath the panel between the first and second window on the same end. *yes, the Hornby battery boxes are on the wrong side, but they are approximately the right longitudinal position **the H25 is slightly different due to the shorter distance between the bogie centres. You'd need to look at the photo of the H25 to get the positioning of the underframe items. A really quick conversion would use the Hornby coach with the ends of the roof filed flat and the end inserts replaced by flat ones from the LMS coaches of the same vintage. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think I am right in saying from the comet instructions that the H25 is a narrower width (I've just checked and its 8ft6 rather than 9ft), I must admit I didn't actually check the width of the Hornby H33 so couldn't say how close to 9ft it actually is, but I guess to most the 2mm difference in width wouldn't be an issue) It also has a completely different arrangement of roof vents Now thinking of adding one to the todo pile, did any H25 survive to nationalisation before being rebuilt? Rather fancy doing one with original windows for something a little different to the h33 I've already done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 As far as I can tell from the limited info on the records I have, all had the Windows replaced in the late thirties. The reason for the narrower width is they were built to go anywhere on other railway systems and were well travelled vehicles being a regular sight at York, Newcastle, etc. As for roof vents, there ceased to be a 'standard' layout once the rebuilds started with alterations made as required, with new catering equipment. The smoke deflector vent cover was not commonly used postwar, with the large 'dish' shaped vent appearing on some prewar. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 The biggest difference appears to be the bogie centres and the associated underframe differences. This is what I posted in the H33 thread: Looking at Russell's Appendix 2, both the photos of the H33 (fig 199, rebuilt, shirtbutton) and that of the very similar H25 (fig 175, rebuilt, BR) show three battery boxes. Two are in the conventional locations on the corridor side*, and the third, smaller one is on the kitchen side, closer to the centre of the coach at the third-class end. The dynamo is also under the third class end. On the H33**, the gas cylinders extend a little beyond the verticals of the underframe truss at each end and are smaller diameter than the Comet ones (which is why I used the Ratio 4-wheeler ones). The third battery box is just to the third class end of them, basically beneath, and the same width as, the panel between the double door and the first of the third class windows. The dynamo is beneath the panel between the first and second window on the same end. *yes, the Hornby battery boxes are on the wrong side, but they are approximately the right longitudinal position **the H25 is slightly different due to the shorter distance between the bogie centres. You'd need to look at the photo of the H25 to get the positioning of the underframe items. A really quick conversion would use the Hornby coach with the ends of the roof filed flat and the end inserts replaced by flat ones from the LMS coaches of the same vintage. Adrian I did all that you suggested on the H33 , Adrian ,though in hindsight could possibly have saved some work by trimming the underside of the interior so that the underframe could be mounted 180 deg around. That would have been true cheapskate ! H25 photo's seem to be somewhat rare and underframe component positioning could be a bit of guess work/approx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 A couple of poor quality pix of my H33. I will get some SEF Flushglaze at some point to finish off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I did all that you suggested on the H33 , Adrian ,though in hindsight could possibly have saved some work by trimming the underside of the interior so that the underframe could be mounted 180 deg around. That would have been true cheapskate ! H25 photo's seem to be somewhat rare and underframe component positioning could be a bit of guess work/approx. You can see most of it from Fig.175 in Russell's Appendix 2. Compared to the H33, the gas cylinders are offset towards the first-class end, which means the vacuum cylinder on the kitchen side is on the other side of the v-hanger (i.e. towards the end of the coach as shown in the Comet diagram). The third battery box is closer to the centre of the coach (about a quarter of it is under the door, the rest under the panel between the door and the first third-class window), and the dynamo is also closer to the centre of the coach. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Ah , yes.Got it.Butchery may commence shortly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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