The Nth Degree Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've just started building some recent acquisitions, namely Connoisseur's J67, J69 and J68. As these are all remarkably similar in design and fittings, I thought I'd build them together instead of building one and then going back and building practically the same thing again. The J67 and J69 are much older kits than the J68, so differ in design in a few crucial areas. For example, the running plate runs across under the boiler, where it should have a gap between the frames so I've removed some if it. The water tanks slot into the boiler, so they will need to be properly shaped around the boiler and the boiler slots filled. Also, the kits chassis' are a 'U' shape, and as I'm building S7 frames I will need to cut the plate out between the sides. So far I've assembled the running plates, valences and beams. I started on the bodies as I still have a lot of thinking and buying to do on the frames. I'd like to use AGW hornguides, Steph Dale's mini gearbox (with Mashima 1824 motors) and maybe try some wheels other than Slater's. None of these are ready yet to purchase. Plus I'm not totally convinced with the supplied coupling rods so will investigate other sources. I still have no idea yet whether to go with some sort of springing or compensation. I don't know much about these prototypes – or even building locos, to be frank – so I'll have loads of questions along the way, if you don't mind. If it helps, I've pretty much chosen which locos I'm going to build, all in 1957-58 condition, and all based in East Anglia at the time. The J67 is going to be 68518, J69 is 68579 and the J68 will be 68656. I don't have pictures of these locos, as I used Yeadon's to choose them, so I don't really know what they look like yet. I suppose that would be my first question: does anyone have any pictures of these locos during this time? A word of warning: I'm slow (although not as slow as Jeff...). It took me 2 months to choose the locos, a month to open and close the boxes a few times and two days to build what I have so far. I'm still building three vans that I started 3 years ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I have another question, which I hope someone can help with. On the front of the running plate behind the buffer beam there seems to be an inspection or maintenance flap – half-etched lines represent this. The J68 comes supplied with hinges to be attached, but the other two don't, so I'll have to make them. Does anyone have any pictures of these hinges? I can't find any on the web after searching last night. Edited to add one more question: I like the idea of the Alan Gibson fully-contained buffers (i.e. no bolt springing through the buffer beam) but I've not seen any. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Brilliant... I shall post some thoughts later, right now I'm late for work..! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Great, I was hoping you were going to jump on board. Adrian (Buckjumper) would be a great help too, being the font of all knowledge GER and Buckjumpers! I have some really troubling questions about which equipment was fitted to which loco – buffer types, reversing levers or screws, braking equipment, etc, etc. I'd also like to replace the boiler backplate with perhaps a Gibson or other casting. I'm afraid I don't know anything about steam locos or who does what parts. I had the morning off so I thought I would tackle the hinges – or at least see if I could make them. Excuse the poor pics that follow... I started off with a brass rod (I think 0.7mm) and filed a flat to sit nicely on the hinge plate. Then a strip of brass (I think 0.25mm) and punched in some bolts (I lost my focus on the left side, both literally and mentally!). Here they are placed together to see what they'd look like. Then I soldered them together and cut them to length. I think I can live with that. I like them much better than the etched hinges supplied, so I'll make two more for the J68. If I could get some fittings queries sorted then I can order some parts from Gibson, Griffin, Ragstone & Co. It would be great to have all three running plates complete in a month or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm thinking out aloud here in the hope that someone can confirm or poop my thinking. I've read a lot about builders who separate their models into easily paintable sections, and then reassemble them after painting. Makes perfect sense to me. What I'm not sure about is what sections to build, and how many. My current thinking for all three locos are the frames, the running plates and then the body & boiler assembly – essentially everything above the running plate. I'll have removable roofs so I can paint inside the cabs. If my thinking is sound, to complete the running plates I've started I've got to complete the following (I don't want to use the supplied whitemetal buffers, couplings, pipework and etched lamp irons) Buffers (Alan Gibson? I'm choosing Alan Gibson because they are described as 'self-contained' which I reading as no intrusion under the running plate when they are compressed – can anyone confirm this?) Couplings – 3-links and screw (Laurie Griffin?) Steam & Vac pipes (Laurie Griffin?) Lamp Irons (Laurie Griffin?) Steps (kit) Under-valance pipework (kit) Any other details (scratch) That's not too bad of a list to complete within a month at my working speed. I noticed earlier today that I've already made a mistake in picking prototypes. 68579 is another R24 and I need a S56, so I've chosen 68628 for the J69, which was a Lowestoft loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Steve, I like your thread. I have always had a soft spot for the GER since my family are from that part of the railway world. I do remember seeing the Liverpool St pilots in their blue glory when we passed through on holiday trips from Scotland. I too build in S7 and find that, especially scratch building, is much easier than standard 0! However you asked about building in sections to ease painting. Much depends on the prototype and where you can easily split into components. Here are a couple of pictures of one of my locos stripped down before painting. It is an 0-4-4 dock tank so similar in size to your J's. Hope this gives you some ideas. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 I like your thread. Thanks Ian, and thanks also for the images. Do you think I should also separate my boiler from the rest of the upper superstructure? Another question if I may – this probably has a very simple answer – but after it's painted, how do you fit it back together again? Soldering would be out of the question or extremely difficult to protect the paint. Is it bolted and/or glued? Another silly question, but was the boiler backplate actually fitted to the firebox on a real loco? I guess it was. In that case, should there be some sort of cut-out in the front of the cab for the firebox to fit into? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Steve. The pictures don't show it but the smokebox and boiler are seperate, as is the brass ring between, joined by a 6ba screw from the boiler into the smokebox. On other locos I have made the smokebox door open and screwed from the front. The tanks are screwed to the footplate with 10ba screws, the smokebox too and the boiler rear is held to the cab front with a 6ba screw. The boiler should go through the cab front but it is easier for detailing to make the backhead a seperate part glued in later. There is sometimes an angle covering the joint. Other components are either screwed, plugged or glued on depending on part. I hope this helps. Isn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Brilliant... I shall post some thoughts later, right now I'm late for work..! JB. Have you got back from work yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi mate, hope you're getting on well with the bucks...! I don't think I can add too much info regarding the prototype. And Adrian is definitely the man to go to... I reckon he knows every loco off by heart and even found a few mistakes in the Yeadons book (s?) if I remember correctly.. Regarding building the locos in parts for painting etc, I wouldn't worry about it too much , especially if they're going to be in BR livery without lining on the boilers, it's probably more work than you need to do, if you were building a D16 in full GER livery that would be a different situation. Have you worked out how you're going to spring the frames yet? If not I have a simple quick and foolproof method if you're interested. Are you going to the ally pally show next weekend? I'm going to be demonstrating on the Scale7 stand if you're about. Attached where I am so far with the J68, though haven't touched it for a good month now what with a couple of big job, and a little boy... JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thanks Jonathan, I've been soldering on hinges and lamp brackets this afternoon. Very frustrating! There's got to be a better way than I'm doing it. I'll put some pictures on later when I've had something to eat. Yes, I saw your springing method on Stephen's J68 thread, a very quick and simple way of achieving this. I've got some Gibson hornguides on order but not heard anything lately. There was a problem with fit or something. I doubt I'll be able to get to London that weekend – I'm in charge of the littleman so we're off adventuring in the undergrowth on the South Downs. How old's yours? Mine's five and full of beans! I've cleaned up some of the bodywork to start on tomorrow so while I'm waiting for running plate parts to arrive I can start on those hopefully tomorrow afternoon. Right, where's the fridge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Mines 5 months, and the last thing he needs is beans...! I'm guessing you probably know Evan of the Scale7 group? I'm sure he was a member of a Sussex group with an S7 line? JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Haha! I remember those times. So little goes into them but so much comes out! We have Ian Norman, who I think you know, and Julian Russell, both S7 modellers. I haven't been for a few months so maybe Evan is new or he's an East Sussex member. I bought the J67 & J69 from Peter Hunt, who I'm pretty sure you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I know Ian, and I know the name Julian Russell though can't put a face to him at the minute... Definitely know Peter, this was the front cover of the west Mersea newsletter.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 This afternoon I soldered on my home made hinges and lamp irons from the kit. I would really appreciate some help on neat soldering for these small parts that sit on flat surfaces. It's so fiddly and I tend to use too much solder. I'm not really interested in buying an RSU, but I may upgrade my gas torch to something more controllable and reliable. Excuse the bad shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If you have a good 40 or 50 watt iron, you can still use the solder paste, which prevents the need for lots of cleaning up and a nice strong joint.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Solder paste! Of course. I have some of that in a syringe, but it's not out in front of me so I always forget it. Too late for these bits, but I'll use it next time for the fiddly bits. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The other option is to place a small blob of solder on to the bottom of the lamp bracket, plenty of flux onto the footplate, then whilst holding the bracket with tweezers, apply a nice hot iron to the footplate and it will sweat the bracket into place.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's been a very productive day today – out for a bracing walk, back for a little housekeeping, a bit of soldering then off to the movies with a hot blonde... But I'm sure you're not interested in that! Here's what I did earlier: I've temporarily tacked the sides onto the running plate, the tanks and the rear bunker plate. I've also soldered the boilers round, but not fixed to the tanks yet. Once it's all square and secure I can remove them from the running plate so I can work on them separately. There's quite a lot of pipework around the valances on two of the locos, which is going to be time consuming and tricky knitting (for me!) and I'd prefer to work on the bodies separately. On the J67 & J69 pictured there's quite a bit of fabrication still required. The spectacle plates and rear cab plates are just deep enough to clear the tanks; I'll need them to extend to the floor so I can fit a proper cab in place. These old kits were not supplied with any sort of cab fittings – the J68 kit is luxury in comparison! Once this is done I'll have a solid body without any flex that I can continue to work on off the running plate. Once I've done that, and got the J68 to this stage I'll post another pic. I'm trying to think ahead now toward motor/gearbox positions and if I'll need to trim out anything more from the running plate. I hope not. I still haven't heard from Steph Dale Model Products so I don't know if I can get the gearboxes quick enough or I'll have to think of another option. I'm also thinking of speaker locations and designs. I don't know of anything already available so any help is grateful. I've got a few ideas but will have to check them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I've been thinking about cutting away the inside faces of the tanks to provide some much needed space. I think the neatest location for the motor on these is to have it running off of the rear axle, and then laying down neatly between the frames and the Middle axle, but that all depends whether you're going to fit inside valve gear or not JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Funny you should mention that! This is my plan using Steph's gearboxes with 1824 motors: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 As typical for a Bank Holiday Monday, I had a lot of DIY chores to do, but to my amazement I finished early with over three hours to spare. What to do? I'll get out one of my projects and put the iron on. After all, while the cat's away... I managed to build the smokeboxes and put the formers into the boilers. The half-etched smokebox wrappers were a pain to get smoothly rounded, especially with holes drilled into them, as this is the weakest point and it has a tendency to bend rather than roll. No wonder they call these kettles – it takes quite a few cups of tea to solve the problems! I've just placed them on to running plates at the moment, as I still have to trim the wrappers to size and fit the boiler bands. Plus I have a plan to fit speakers into the water tanks, so I need a few samples of speakers to see how I'm going to fit them. I will almost certainly need to trim away part of the hidden boiler barrels. I'll try to do the remedial work this week, including fitting the J68 internal window frames, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to get them out again for anything more aggressive. Possibly next year (I'm shocked to see the date of my last post!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 Am I being dumb? I was looking at a few photos of the smokebox on these locos, and I know the instructions ask to round over the edges, but there's not a lot of space to do that. The wrapper is soldered around the formers, so you are restricted to the amount of space available between the rivets and the edge of the wrapper – which is hardly anything. I makes me wonder whether I had to solder the wrapper to the very edge of the formers, which would have been incredibly difficult to judge. I'm now thinking I should solder on another layer to the front and back to achieve the rounded edge. A couple pics to show what I mean. And this is how much space I have to round the edges: If anyone has built one of these before, how did you do it? Have I made a mistake? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 If anyone has a J67 or J69 kit they'd like to swap for a spare complete Connoisseur J68 kit I have please let me know. An alternative would be a conversion kit from (I think) Colin Dowling, but that would mean paying extra cash that I'm trying to keep hold of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 I was worried that a flush-fitting smokebox door wouldn't look quite right so I found a sheet of NS and planned to make some plates for the front and back of the smokebox. I could then recreate the rounded edges of the smokebox and fit the door and boiler to that. I marked the shape, bolted them together and cut them out. To aid soldering, and to use the door alignment hole, I cut a hole in each and ended up with 6 of these: I then soldered these to the front and back of the previously made smokebox units and soldered on the doors to make three of these: I'm waiting for some speakers to arrive so I know how much to cut away from the boiler tubes and the inside tank plates, so I'm stuck for things to do until then. I will also have a look for brass door darts to replace the fragile white metal ones supplied. While I'm at it I may have a look at replacement chimneys and domes, but the supplied castings may be OK with a little cleaning up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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