EddieB

On 07/10/2022 at 18:46, Johann Marsbar said:

V/Line in Australia have names on their N class diesels, not with a nameplate as such but in brass (?) letters on the cabside above the number - All carrying the names of Cities.

N451 carries the name "City of Portland".      Not sure how many of these remain in service nowadays as railcars were taking over in a big way the last time I was there....

 

There was still an A class running about when I was last in Melbourne (2004) which was named "Sir Harold Clapp" in a similar fashion....

On 08/10/2022 at 12:36, kevinlms said:

Probably not, as the real Harold Clapp was generally highly regarded.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Winthrop_Clapp

 

And the S Class locos were named.

Harold Clapp was one of three Chairmen of the Victorian Railways Commissioners to be honoured by the naming of a diesel or electric loco (originally as B60, the loco was rebuilt/converted to A60).  The others (as if anyone might be interest) were George Brown (C501) and RG Wishart (L1150).

Staying with the B-class, one (B74) was named in preservation.  Four were named in service after rebuilding as A-class.  They were named after prominent Australian Rules footballers, repeat recipients of the Brownlow Medal (awarded to best footballer of the year).

As noted the S-class diesel-electrics were named, the numbers and names of the first four (S300-S303) carried over from S-class 4-6-2 steam locos (only four built). 

Aside from those mentioned already, four G-class and a solitary X-class were named.

(I could mention other Australian railways, but fear I've lost the room).

On 09/10/2022 at 07:45, Bernard Lamb said:

In the early days in parts of Germany some locomotives carried name plates.

Later in the GDR some shunting locomotives had "radio names" these names were usually painted on the locos in very large lettering.

OTTOMH Ruth and Ramona were two of them.

Bernard

The use of "radio names" flourished in Belgium, the names being applied as lettering on the cab sides.  Names were only unique within each depot, and could be duplicated across the network.  (Being shunting locomotives, they did not venture beyond their local spheres of operation).

On 09/10/2022 at 11:32, Compound2632 said:

 

But it's interesting though, that it only became more or less obligatory for express passenger locomotives after the grouping. Before then, except on the LNWR, GWR, NBR, LBSCR, and HR, it was rare.* (Of those, only the LNWR and GWR made use of nameplates.)

 

*Have I missed any? I've omitted the GCR as it came to naming rather late in the day, perhaps compensating for naming falling out of fashion on the LBSCR. 

The Great Eastern applied names sparingly.  Examples that come to mind are "MOGUL" (the first British 2-6-0, though I believe the generic name preceded the GER naming) and "PETROLEA" (an experimental conversion to oil firing).

On 09/10/2022 at 15:16, Silly Moo said:

South African steam locos were given names by their drivers. The names were usually those of the driver’s wives. 

The names given by drivers were usually carried on the front of the smokebox.  They were neither official, nor permanent, being at times exchanged (presumably when the drivers changed engines rather than wives!).

Some SAR loco names were longer lasting.  I think of shed-master Watson at De Aar naming a "pet" 15A class loco "Milly" (on name plates).  Beaconsfield (Kimberley) painted the name "Suikerbossie" on the tender of its one-time "pet" (19D 2661).

The Wardale-rebuilt sole class 26 (unofficially the "Red Devil") carried nameplates "L. D. Porta" (honouring the Argentinian engineer who was the inspiration to Wardale).  The other Wardale-modified loco (class 19D) was named "Irene".   

1 minute ago, didcot said:

I suspect if that does occur the toys will go out the pram with a threat of leaving F1. So be it.

Amen.

8 minutes ago, SR71 said:

Well;

2021

Ver: 395.5

Ham: 387.5 + 5% = 407.

 

FIA need to be very careful.

Or spread over a season, "just under 5%" represents one race.  So RB are disqualified from the race that finally  took them over the budget cap - the last race of the season.

Of course that will never happen.  RB will be fined - the fine sloshing around within the "sport".  Omerta (as the very innocent Jean Alessi might say).  Who knows, some might even help towards Bernie's legal expenses?

Those days (1980s), I also tended to shoot mainly in black & white.  Here's a couple of "foreign" workings of DB locomotives from May 1981, two classes that I'm surprised haven't featured already.  103 on TEE stock at Basle Hauptbahnhof, Switzerland and 181 at Strasbourg, France.

Late to this thread, but some lovely photos and memories.  Just a small request - could some locations and dates be edited in where absent?  Some are obvious (station names), others inferred (Kornwestheim with the withdrawn E93/E94s?) - but helpful to know!

Regarding the Dutch 1500 class (ex-BR EM2), I found them rather elusive.  As with other NS electric classes, they were allocated nominally to Maastricht, which was where I mostly went looking but only once found one.  As is clear from the photos, they tended to work on international trains out of Hoek van Holland!

On 09/10/2022 at 08:16, Gareth Collier said:

Trouble with Gasley was he approached under double waved yellows which meant he should be prepared to stop and they changed to red before he arrived yet he was going as fast as he could to catch the train up. 

The tractor probably shouldn't have been there but Gasley was ignoring the flags.

Never should there be a service vehicle on the circuit while cars are still on track - the only exceptions being the safety car and the medical car attending an emergency.  Flags or no flags, whatever speed Gasly was doing, there was no emergency requiring the deployment of a recovery vehicle before the track was clear of cars.  Given the poor visibility and as the same circuit where Jules Bianchi was killed makes it totally inexcusable.

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The award of points was not a decision. It was explained in the rules.

 

The delay to Leclerc's penalty was a different matter entirely. This was a decision which was not finalised until the interviews. I have some sympathy with the stewards here. The incident was on the last lap & they were a lot quicker than usual to announce that they were investigating it. The routine now is to grab the drivers for an interview as soon as possible, which did not give much time for the stewards to discuss the incident among themselves.

Point taken.  One of the drawbacks of watching edited highlights is not knowing the actual time interval between things shown sequentially - in this case the chequered flag and the post-race interviews.  Together with utter confusion in the commentary box, it came across as a complete muddle - and let’s face it, there is plenty of precedent for that.

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I've just looked up the rule & it was quite clear.

 

It did not seem like the stewards were hesitant with this. They had a chance to look this up during the red flag stoppage. It seems like they did so & got it right.

If it was that clear and simple, then (as has been said) why did it take so long to “clarify” after the end of the race?

With so many variables in play, it’s not surprising that even those conversant with the rules could be confused as to which permutation would be applied.  When it became clear that the race would restart, and the time available, then the stewards should have known how points would be awarded - either from adherence to the rule book or having settled on a decision.  They should then have communicated their decision, so that everyone - drivers, teams, commentators - knew what they were racing for as soon as they went into the restart procedure.

The way things turned out, it smacked of another attempt to make the rules up “on the fly”, which clearly benefitted some more than others.  That it turned out to the benefit of the same team and driver as the last attempt to make up rules as you go leaves something of a sour taste.

On 06/10/2022 at 22:18, Andrew P said:

O.K. Guys and Gals, this is how I see it.

 

End of 2021 and Lewis looses the title due a cock up by an FIA Official, and they cant admit that, but NOW IF they can prove that RB cheated to get to the title, they can legitimately remove it from MV with no egg on the FIA's face. and JUSTICE is restored. 👍

I can’t say that will happen.  According to Lewis, last year Red Bull arrived at almost every race post-Silverstone with yet more upgrades.  

A lot happened in those races.  Would the results have altered had teams been aware that sanctions were looming?  As soon as you change something retrospectively, the whole subject of contingency arises.  Trying to undo the resultant mess is too complex and I suspect the FIA are taking their time because they want to find a solution that doesn’t involve “losing face”.  Questions of “fairness” are a secondary consideration.  I bet they find a way to wriggle out, treating some of RB’s overspend as legitimately off the books.

I have considered whether the FIA might even have decided to nullify the 2021 season.  Max would be stripped of his title, but it wouldn’t be given to Lewis.  However, I reckon that’s a step too far even for the FIA.

Internationally most countries applied names to locomotives in the early days - it was only as companies became bigger or state-organised that the practice waned.  The United Kingdom is far from an exception (and let’s not forget that names were also frequently applied by the railways in Northern Ireland), as there are many places where locomotives (particularly top link) are routinely named - European examples have been given, but others include Malaysia, Nigeria and Australia.

I thought it was an absorbing qualifying, but a dull race - thanks to all the “impermanent way slacks”.

I’m becoming rather jaded by the off-track rumours and politics, that basically comes down to which teams are the best cheats and most able to get away with it.

Yes it is the Spanish loco, the “adif” lettering is still discernible.  Transfesa have taken on maintenance of the Adif 311 fleet - hardly a good advertisement!  Here’s the loco before being vandalised:

https://www.listadotren.es/galeria/verfoto.php?section=motor&id=15872

Roger - published material on Uganda Railways is quite rare.  The book appears to be a "print on demand" edition(?), but there is no information about ordering, shipping, etc.  I think there may be a few of us on "one of the IO Groups you frequent" that may be interested - perhaps in placing a combined order?  (Had I known, I could have asked friends who visited "home" earlier this year).

On 18/09/2022 at 07:19, 009 micro modeller said:

However, East Africa (including Kenya) is metre gauge. So is much of South East Asia, including Malaysia (and as a main line gauge, not just for secondary lines like in India).

The Uganda Railway (starting from Mombasa, Kenya) was built using labour, materials and original locomotives and rolling stock imported from India.

No, don’t tell me - introduce “smart circuits” where part of the track can be switched out and used as a breakdown lane in an emergency?

I didn't realise there was an observation point!

HS1 is mostly surrounded by high security fencing.  There are a couple of vantage points in the Dagenham Dock/Rainham area, but views aren't particular great for photography.

What's in a name?

It's probably widely known that KTMB (Malaysia) gave names to their "most important" locomotives.  In the steam era names were given to some 4-6-4Ts, Pacifics and Sentinel railcars.  The practice was continued by naming main-line diesels.  Whereas for steam, names were carried in Malay script on one side and English/Roman script on the other; diesels bore two name plates on each side, Malay at one end and English/Roman at the other.

Full lists can be found on the web, but in summary the names follow a scheme by class:

Class 20 (EE) - Flowers ("Bunga")

Class 21 (Kisha Keiso Kasha) - Rivers ("Sungai")

Class 22 (EE) - Places in West Malaysia

Class 23 (Hitachi) - Virtues

Class 24 (Toshiba) - National heroes

Class 25 batch 1 (GM) - Islands ("Pulau")

Class 25 batch 2 (GM) - Precious stones

Class 26 (Bombardier/GE "blue tiger") - Capes/headlands ("Tanjung")

Class 29 (Dalian) - Trees/types of wood

While the names might appear prosaic, the "heroes" of class 24 include some who led uprisings against the British colonial rule.  In particular 24104 "MAT SALLAH", which appears to be named for Datu Muhammad Salleh, a local chief from Sabah who led a rebellion against the British North Borneo Chartered Company at the close of the Victorian age.  However the term "Mat Sallah" is also believed to be a corruption of "mad sailor" and is used as a derogatory term for "white people"!

Here is a photo of 23103 "BERANI" ("Courageous") at Singapore in 1987.

So another instance where a safety car was called too late in the race to allow recovery and restart.  When Ricciardo stopped on track (lap 46 out of 53) in a place where recovery was only possible with a tow truck, there should have been an immediate red flag.

Why is it that the way these incidents are “managed” always seems to favour Red Bull?

Well done to the other Dutchman, Nick DeVries - ahead of Wallman in qualifying and way ahead at the “finish”.  A couple of points on debut, and in a Williams, to boot.

Farce on Saturday, farce on Sunday.

Yuk!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/cricket-farm-london-ontario-1.6506606

Although the article implies that the protein source is intended as pet food, the World Economic Forum is advocating insects as a sustainable way of supporting a rising global population.  I can’t see the rich elite that attend Davos being the first in line to try the yummy new recipes, however.

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Happily Nyck De Vries had done FP1, was on hand, is in the car. 

Should make for an interesting comparison with Latifi...

I don't see how it can always be "fair".

It's one thing to penalise the driver responsible for bringing out a red/yellow flag during qualifying, another to fairly compensate drivers who may lose out as a result.  (Which is why putting in an early "banker" lap is recognised as suitable insurance during qualifying).

Obviously the same applies during the race itself, where an infringement may be punished by a time penalty, but if an innocent party has had their race ended or compromised, they still lose out - it's called "racing".

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The strategies were playing out nicely until the safety cars ruined the race.

I have said many times before that allowing pit stops during safety car periods is unnecessary & ruins races. They were banned at one time, until cars ran out of fuel & because stranded on the circuit. Tyres don't suddenly fall to bits at safety car speeds. Fuel stops finished after 2012 & so should safety car pit stops.

 

While on this subject, at the very least drivers should not be released from pit stops to change tyres while the SC procession is being routed through the pit lane.  Whilst we may be sympathetic to George Russell, it's general risk was exemplified by the unsafe release of Sainz.  If a stop is needed, the driver must be held until the entire procession has passed.