Respite

I too am sorry to see Track Shack close but fully understand why. I have used them a lot this last year or so as I built the biggest layout I have done so far. Service was outstanding.

On 25/06/2020 at 20:21, Ruston said:

Probably the most well-known and successful British industrial steam design ever and I've never owned a model of one before. OK, I have but they were N gauge so they don't count (sorry, N gauge folks but they weren't very good models in any way).

Last week I was looking at pictures of Austerities and thinking how great they are and looked into buying a model of one that could end up on an NCB line that I may or may not build at all. I was aware of the DJ models version but had heard bad things about the running qualities of some, and how the motors aren't very reliable. Not only that but the price tag put me off. Then I saw a bargain-priced Dapol version on ebay and bid on and won it.

I'd already bought it by the time I looked closely at the picture and found that despite it being a liveried and numbered as a WD engine that was never owned by the LNER or BR, it's got a ruddy great moulding for a BR number plate on the front of the smokebox! Did Dapol think no one would notice? I noticed and so I figured that it may be ready-to-run but it isn't going to be ready to run on any layout that I own.

Now I've got the thing in my hands I realise that it's a project in itself. The smokebox door has to go, the handrail knobs are huge, so they'll have to go, the injectors are on some plastic backing, so they require attention, the wheels are wrong, not to mention being bright nickel silver, so they'll have to be replaced...

It runs well but it's noisy. I could probably put up with it if it was just DC but if it's going DCC sound it'll be annoying, so I think it's a new motor and gearbox job, which I guess also means a new chassis.

I'm wondering just how much of the original model I'm going to be left with and if it wouldn't have been cheaper to just fork out for the DJ one to begin with!

 

The buffers are sprung but the bodies look too thick on the shank and the backing plate where they bolt to the buffe beams needs a good feed. They'll have to be replaced.

This cover for the Kylpor exhaust doesn't sit right. I want to replace it with a standard chimney anyway. The smokebox hinge is a bit heavy duty!

I think the extra steps and handles on the tank are an LNER thing, so they'll have to get the chop. And there's that awful seam that I need to do something about.

What's this sliding hatch thing? I've not noticed that on the Austerities that I've seen.

These are all the things I've noticed myself and I'm no expert on Austerities. I'm sure someone will be along to tell me more...

 

Buckle up, Warrington, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

The sliding hatch was a feature on some of the NCB austerities in Lancashire. Repulse HE3698 definitely had the feature and still does.

"Nora" seemed to be somewhat "incontinent", dropping red hot coals from the ashpan wherever she went - this is

noticeable in the film as well!"

It didn't have an ashpan that's why!

On 16 April 2020 at 19:59, steve1 said:

If I could get a copy locally without breaking the rules, then I would but one. Sadly the village shop only carries RM. Which I have already read cover to cover!

 

steve

Just ask your village shop to get the latest copy of Model Rail. My local Spar got me Steam Railway last week as a one off no problem

On 07/02/2020 at 16:27, The Johnster said:

Your pannier is a suitable repaint into 7754, which worked at several collieries including Maerdy and Hafodyrynys already mentioned, as well as Abersychan and Mountain Ash.    It carried a mid green NCB livery with red coupling rods.  9600,  an 8750 with the Collett cab, worked at Merthyr Vale, retaining BR livery and overhead wire warning flashes. 

7754 never worked at Hafodyrnys or Maerdy, It was at Elliott Colliery that it worked,  prior to going to Aberyschan. Hafodyrnys had the older pannier tanks 2XXX series, including one or two on hire. The Maerdy Panner tank was 96XX class although they had others on hire from Radyr, one of the NCB drivers who had worked at Radyr told me this.

20 hours ago, figworthy said:

 

What is happening by that bridge across the incline ?  is it a pair of runaway wagons, or is one being loaded there ?

 

Adrian

It is in fact a tunnel not a bridge and yes that's a pair of wagons that have had an accident. One of the austerity locos at Haig Colliery, 'Weasel' ran away over the top of the incline and ended up in a similar position, it did work again. This is the Howgill Brake ( Incline) the other one, in use until 1984, was the Corkickle Brake (Incline) which was latterly used by Marchon Products. It was originally built to serve Croft and then Ladysmith Colliery and Coke ovens. The Howgill Brake in the photos was a replacement for an earlier Brake that was built to take cauldron wagons down to the harbour. This earlier incline is still visible(so far as I know) from the Harbour.

I visited yesterday and thought the show was excellent. A great trade presence with some firms I hadn't heard of before. A very good variety of layouts with Calderwood worth the trip alone, as it always is, and several with an industrial theme to them. The 3 hrs plus that I spent at the exhibition flew by, wonderful.

On 22/10/2019 at 13:48, 1whitemoor said:

In my view poorly maintained trackwork in collieries is more typical of the 1960's onwards (disposal points excepted). 

 

 

I would agree with this to some extent and apply it to the locos also.

Something seemed to happen to the NCBs maintenance from around 1968, photographs of locos at collieries before this date often show clean locos or at least wheels and motion that had been wiped over from there on the locos were neglected, the locos at Hafodyrynys being one example.

On 11/10/2019 at 10:37, sir douglas said:

i dont know for sure of the which locos or which years but some of the castleford area locos like airedale, fryston or allerton were still going into the mid 80's

This is not correct, I don't know where this information comes from.

As in the post above, 1981 was the last year I am aware of a steam loco being used in the Yorkshire area collieries. 

I really enjoyed this show, high quality layouts in every room, full use of the premises was made and cheap refreshments. It was well attended and nice to see young families visiting. Very well done to all involved.

On 10/10/2019 at 10:56, sixteen 12by 10s said:

its about 15 mins walk from Cradley Heath and about the same from Old hill, or you could use the X10 bus from Cradley heath station, it stops right outside the venue 

https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/1st-Sept-2019/bX10_010919.pdf

Many thanks that's very helpful.

What is the walking time from Cradley Heath station to the exhibition please as I am thinking of coming from Kidderminster by train.

Thanks

There are three things I would alter on this plan.

1. The single road exchange siding is the achillies heel of the plan, and would become quite frustrating I feel.  

 I would use it merely as a reversal point, and to stop errant NCB locos running out onto the BR branch. I would use the RHS off scene fiddle yard as your exchange sidings and draw out empties into the reversal point/headshunt before a full regulator, sanders on charge up the bank and past the washery to the top yard empty wagons sidings.

2. NCB loco sheds were often some distance from the main colliery buildings. Think of the smoke from lighting up the loco wafting into the screens!  I would use the loco shed line as a fourth loading road for the screens, most collieries  had at least four roads for loading wagons, There are exceptions I know of, especially in narrow South Wales valleys.

3. The pit head area buildings need reversing. The siding you show running into the winding house is not accurate, but if it was serving the boiler house, exactly right. The boiler house shunt was often a nightmare, with a stiff gradient onto a gantry (Cronton Colliery) or a stiff gradient with one wagon of boiler fuel, which was fly shunted around the pit head buildings as the clearance was too tight for the loco! As at William Colliery Whitehaven.  You would use wooden bodied NCB internal wagons for this, often the NE type wooden hopper wagons as made by Slaters.

Narrow gauge tramways were often used in South Wales for sending spoil to the tips,  you could therefore have the tramway going from the screens across towards the backscene although your supplies line from the buildings and pit prop yard offers a lot of interesting cargoes and is also very typical of a colliery.

I realise I haven't said where to relocate the loco shed, and that is the problem. The obvious area is where the pit head is but visually the winding gear would be far more impressive. To add to the problem you really need at least one siding down the side of the shed with demic wagons and derelict locos in for that typical colliery look.

Good luck with your project, I have looked at Mr Rice's plan many times myself.

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In the case of "Young Winston" the GWS hired them 1466, and the filming of the Boers attacking the armoured train was shot in the Onllwyn / Coelbren areas.

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I have a photo in my collection of a Hymek towing 1466 and a preserved Toad through Cardiff General an-route to the filming location.

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After filming was complete, I found 1466 and its Toad in the ground lathe in Canton's carriage shed, on its way back to Didcot.

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If Morlais Colliery was used then the Peckett used in the filming would be 2114/1951, which was a B3.

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But, 2114/1951 had left Morlais Colliery by November 1969, long before the Young Winston film crew arrived in Wales for the railway shots (summer 1971 when I recorded 1466)

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The other railway scenes in Young Winston used what appeared to be a USA tank and a BR Standard 4-6-0.

 

Brian R

It was P2114 that was used in Young Winston with the filming being done at Brynlliew. The USA tank and 9F were filmed at the Longmoor Military Railway during the time it was hoped part of it would become a preserved railway,  the 9F being David Shepherd's 92203 and the USA is the one that went to the Bluebell.

When I saw it I thought - 'I recognise that!'.  Something I've also considered using as the basis for a layout - but you've got there first!

 

 

I also recognise the track plan from the book about the Denby system, and I have always thought it would make a superb small layout. The reversal adds the interest.

Because I couldn't cope with engineering the cable haulage I thought it could be the interchange point between a large loco like an austerity working the top section of the system interchanging traffic with an 0-4-0ST. I wouldn't have a loco shed but perhaps double up the sidings by the pumping shaft to have one for boiler fuel and the other for loading boiler ash, unloading pit props or delivering provender for the horses. That would increase your traffic flows, shunting potential and the types of wagon you could use.

Yes Brookes No.1 is a 14"

In response to the question "Do you know what weight and length of train would have been taken up Foxfield bank when it was a working colliery railway? I was told by Dave Donkin who owns two of the locos at Foxfield that the NCB austerities used to take 4 loaded wagons up the bank from the Colliery, I assume that these were 16 tonners.

There was a similar bank at Polkemmet. Regularly tackled by double heading of Barclays; no more than six 16T fulls - and taking a run at the bank.

 

Sorry but this just isn't right. There was no way the locos could get a run at the bank it was a slow and hard work from the start getting slightly faster towards the exchange sidings.

The load limit you quote is way off the mark. One of the drivers showed me a letter from the manager saying a max of 9 x 24 ton minerals with two locos, the two being No.25 and 18 inch No.8. The driver told me that they once took 13 x 24 ton minerals in the snow as the shunter made a mistake.

I have seen 10 x 24 ton minerals and 16 x 16 tonners taken with 15 inch No.8 and 16 inch No.25 one hot summers day, the locos were barely moving above the screens but they were taking these loads all morning and never stopped.

There are photos on eBay at the moment showing 12 x16 tonners being taken up.

I didn't go in David's cab  but the cab controls are not like the ones in Dick. The scoop, power handle and gear lever were all mounted vertically on a central console.

This is wonderful.

I well remember the loco at Cadeby Main. After the  miners strike I decided to check out what was left of NCB railways in Yorkshire. I had been told about the HC diesels in the area and so my first foray was to Cadeby. This was in my white Sierra during the autumn of 1985. It came back covered in coal slurry from the local roads due to the amount of coal going out by road.

Cadeby had three locos, 'Ken' a Sentinel  and 'Dick' and 'David' two of the old HC diesels. By this time 'David' was awaiting the fitting of new fluid coupling in its transmission. It had been left ticking over with the coupling (scoup)  left in the drive position. 'Dick' was main loco and 'Ken' a dodgy standby. However on the day of my visit 'Dick' had an electrical problem and wouldn't start so Ken was sliding about in a sea of very liquid slurry that buried the rails. 'David' was in the unusual six road loco shed at Cadeby. It was still in its original HC livery as per your model and looked rather good. 'Dick' had had a repaint into an unlined dark green and 'Ken' was in yellow. On a return visit 'Dick' was working and 'David' was still waiting for the replacement fluid coupling to be installed which was lying on the shed floor next to it. The driver told me that the HCs were a very good loco with a highly reliable Gardner engine and better than the sentinel which would handle six loaded MGRs compared to eight with the Hudswells.

Sadly 'David' didn't get repaired and it and 'Dick' got scrapped in 1986 when Cadeby closed. Ironically Ken went to Maltby for further use and was retyred and had its seized brakes repaired by Thomas Hills of Rotherham. It was either Booths of Rotherham or Hartwood Exports who scrapped Dick and David. Besides the loco plates that you have the mechanical lubricator from David went to a preservation group. The engines from these old HCs were a prized item with scrap merchants and Hartwood exports sent them to China for use in junks.

The link below is to a photo of the three locos awaiting their fate at Cadeby after the colliery closed.

https://keithsphotos.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=158665699

"Can you offer any more info on Mike Taylor's book, Respite?  I can't track it down.

Thanks,

Tony"

The Michael Taylor book was a black and white photo album with hard covers. It was on the Stanier 8F Society stand. My impression was that a lot of photos showed withdrawn 8Fs and Black 5s standing in pools of water and littered coal and that I had seen a fair proportion of the images before in magazines etc. There were some industrial locomotive photographs at Bank Hall Colliery, Burnley and Huncoat which unfortunately were printed at a small size, a pity when photos of these locations are uncommon. The standard of printing was very good and there some great photos in the book of Rose Grove locos and steam around Burnley.

There were sheets to fill in for pre-orders and I am sorry but I cannot remember the publishers name. I would suggest you contact the Stanier 8F society sales director Terry Donlan at the address given at 

http://www.8fsociety.co.uk/contactus.html

The Kidderminster Railway Museum was taking orders for Transition on Saturday and offering free postage and a signed copy, as it was not available that day as planned.  I am not aware of the new date.  Colin Gifford was there talking to enthusiasts and signing previous books that some visitors had brought with them.   

Some aspects of the event at Kidderminster were a  bit odd really. For example there were three books being promoted that are forthcoming, the MNA series, Mike Taylor's Burnley and Rose Grove and the Colin Gifford one. The one book that was printed and was relevant to the event was 'British Railways Steam 1968 the final chapters' by Stephen Leyland who wasn't allowed to sell it despite being in attendance! The book is excellent and very good value at £25 for a hardback with high printing quality and a host of new photographic material.

https://www.billhudsontransportbooks.co.uk/selected-product.php?prod=british+railways+steam+1968&pid=14164

There is an article about Comrie colliery, Fife in the latest Steam Days magazine (May). Comrie had three brake over the years. There are five photos in the article showing a brake van.

 

 

I am probably wrong about the diesels in Lancs being 37s- and can't remember the article, which was written from an NCB perspective - Bylines articles?  Were Class 40s used in Lancs delivering wagons (16 tonners, pre-MGR)?  

 

Les

Class 40s were certainly seen at Bickershaw's exchange sidings, the MGRs seemed to be Class 47s with Class 40s on the 16 tonners. 

Going back to your query about Class 37s and which colliery had NCB locos taking over the whole train to get the empties up a hill to the colliery. Thinking about it this could be Maesteg you refer to. The first set of exchange sidings were at Nantyffyllon and the austerities would take over trains of 30 21 ton double door mineral wagons and heave them up an incredible incline to the triangle at the Washery before running round and proceeding over to the sidings at Garth.

I don't think it was Bold.  Did the Standish railways have a bit of a hill?

 

Les

I doubt it was Lancashire you are referring to as there weren't Class 37s around when I was visiting the collieries just 47s and 25s. However the scenario you are referring to might be Wooley colliery where Pete Hogarth had a photo of Newstead assiting a class 37 in the colliery yard. This was published in Railway Magazine in the early 1970s. the Standish system was all hills but the exchange sidings where by the WCML on the west side of the climb to Boars Head. The standish system finished in BR steam days.

I have seen a BR diesel deliver a set of 30 MGRs to Bold and Austerity Joseph remove the brake van and then take the 30 MGRs up the gradient parallel to the BR mainline to the headshunt at Collins Green where the set would be split in what where the old exchange sidings. This sounds a similar scenario to what you describe hence my suggestion that it was Bold. I have also been on the footplate of Robert at Bold when it took 48 empty 16ton minerals from the exchange sidings at St Helens Junction up to COllins Green with little fuss.

Bickershaw ? Perhaps. The line came out by Springs Branch shed in Wigan.

Hattons' Hurricane is a Bickershaw J94.

 

I've seen somewhere a J94 pushing MGRs and a pair of Blue 20's in the early 1980's.

 

I wish I could remember which article it was to quote exactly, but one of the Lancashire collieries had its exchange sidings at the top of a steep hill on the BR line, with a steeper gradient up from the sidings to the colliery.   Class 37s used to struggle up the bank and arrive at the sidings, whereupon the WD saddletank would remove the brake van and breeze off up the steeper line to the pit with the whole of the rest of the train.  

 

I can't remember whether it was this pit or one of the Yorkshire ones where BR diesels occasionally needed assistance from the pit loco, which were registered for running over the main line.

 

Les

 

It was Bold Colliery near to St.Helens.

 

NCB locos are known to have banked BR locos at Skiers Spring Drift and Wooley Colliery, Barnsley and at Frances Colliery but non of this was regular. I know also know of  a one off banking at Newmarket Colliery up the line to Robin Hood on a cup final day to help the BR loco shift the wagons in one go so the BR men could get home early. There was a one off also at Polkemmet Colliery in the snow. This was from the Exchange sidings up the BR branch towards Fauldhouse Junction with Barclays Nos 25 and No.8 AB1296. I have recently seen video of when BR 08s were being introduced at Polkemmet of No.25 banking an 08 on 5  loaded 21 ton mineral wagons. I daresay NCB banking of BR locos happened at other locations if rail conditions required.