dale159

Another quick update Whilst I have not posted anything on here for a week or so now that doesn't mean I've not done anything! I have been busy fitting the remaining point motors (31 so far) and working on the second scissor crossing which is repeating things I've already done at the other end. Second scissors in place under its bit of cork The cross member mentioned previously being removed. With the entire fiddle yard side of the layout now completed I have turned my attention to getting it up and running, so a control panel is required. A trip to B&Q yielded a 4x2 sheet of white face hardboard and a length of 3x1 timber. The finished panel will be 3'6" long by 10 inches wide, this panel will just be for the fiddle yard as I intend for there to be another one opposite for the scenic side. My mocked up track diagram done on the computer to half scale, Red diamonds are point switches which will be of the spring loaded momentary toggle switch variety and the blue squares are of the isolating section switches which will be double poll double throw with centre off to allow for twin control DC operation. I have worked out this is feasible with the two scissors using just two switches. I am also looking into connectors to be used between boards, I have encountered problems using D plugs in the past, mainly caused by melting their innards when soldering to them. Instead I have been looking at using ATX cables, intended for use between computer power supplies and motherboards, newer computers use a 24 pin cable over a 20 pin version used in older computers. I am also going to look into the possibility of having cables custom made with the colours corresponding to those I've used on the layout - if they can be obtained at a reasonable price, if not I will settle for standard cables. Dale

Thanks Bob, I suppose I could move it but there are 2 or 3 other point motors and associated frog polarity wires nearby to avoid so certainly easier to remove it - just 4 screws and some brute force to break the bond with the PVA on the top surface. Dale

Evening, A few notes of this afternoons activities I have now moved across to the back wall and installing the second scissors up there In place to measure up for a piece of cork which has now cut with the glue drying as I type, it will be left to dry overnight. One problem I discovered was this cross member on the left hand corner board under the curve point on the inner track, which is rather in the way of the point motor that will need to go there, the tie bar of the point can just be seen through the hole. I suspect the best solution will be to just remove it completely, I'm sure the board will remain rigid enough without it. I have ordered another 20 Seep motors to do the remaining points plus a few more but it does mean I will have to dismantle the entire fiddle yard as the top board is the one on 4 legs! Dale

Quick update. A little bit more tinkering with the electrics has been carried out. The underside of the scissors - I have got to the bottom of my buzzing relays as I mentioned previously, turns out the 12v DC output on my Gaugemaster controller was putting out nearer 15v which the relays didn't like. I then ran the relays off a 12v battery and they operated happily and silently. The connector block in this picture is temporary and was installed to join up all the track feeds for testing. I am still looking at twin DC control, I think it is still doable as there aren't as many wires coming out of the scissors as I'd been anticipating. I've now moved onto the points on the first 4x2 board of the fiddle yard, 7 in total. Dale

Quick update Nothing really worth photographing but I have been busy fitting a quartet of Seep point motors to the scissors, this evening I have connected up the various wires and relays. Despite a slight wiring error, mixing up which polarity was fed to each outer frog when a crossover was thrown, probably caused by referencing what needed to go where on the top of the board and then having to mentally turn it upside down to wire it up. 50/50 odds and of course I got it the wrong way round but quickly sorted by swapping a few wire about. Anyway, I am pleased to report that the scissors is now working correctly with the various polarities changed by the relays operating off the 4 point motors fitted underneath and tested by running a loco over it all - Happy days!! Dale

I am pleased to report that having bolted the two halves of the board back together, connected to the track feed with a few jump leads and replaced the LEDs with a locomotive, even while operating the point motors on the floor by hand - all is working as anticipated! Dale

A quick bench test (on my bedroom floor) of the electrics, The mess of wiring, should be a bit tidier when I do it properly! The left relay controls the reversing polarity of the triangles, wired to the 2 left hand motors on the floor, meanwhile the other 2 relays do the outer frogs operated by the 2 right hand motors. When I started testing after taking this photo it became apparent that the orange and yellow wires on the centre relay were the wrong way around, this was corrected before taking the next photos. The LEDs are held in opposing polarities in the crocodile clips so will change when the polarity changes. Blue LED on the right and no lights on the left means normal on the 2 triangles and no feed to the outer crossover. Orange LED on the right shows the polarity reversed on he triangles by operating either of the 2 left motors by hand. Blue LED on the left shows feed across the outer crossings by operating one of the right motors. Same again with the other right hand motor thrown. A slight concern is that the centre and right hand relays make quite a loud buzzing sound when the coil is active, the left one doesn't but it is the one I had been testing with originally, it's LED seems to have failed and my friend replaced the diode after that shorted but the relay still works, maybe its not getting a clean 12v feed, that I do not know. Dale

A few pics of the electrical test. The mess of wires beneath the board To reverse the polarity of the outer frogs to switch between crossings I had to swap the red and black leads with the purple wires but keep the purple wires with the same feed swapping them over to go straight ahead while releasing the two bare wires from the frogs My little 4 wheel pump trolley (is that the correct name) sailed through both ways first time, I was absolutely gobsmaked! Also as mentioned before the old Hornby 142 seemed to be fine as well, a Bachmann 158 power car derailed going into the crossover, I may have to look into extending the check rails slightly, but then again it might just be the back to backs on the 158 need looking at, might have to compare with another one. I am going to show a friend at the local club who is good with electrics before I wire it up permanently just so he can give it a quick once over. Dale

Thanks Bob, I'm currently doing a bit of electrical testing with a Gaugemaster controller and a heap of red and black jump leads, all seems to be ok so far. I'm trying a few items of stock which are more likely to cause trouble, namely a Hornby 142 and even a 4 wheeled pump trolley which sailed straight through! Dale

Scissors wiring worked out As posted on the thread I started the other day in the Electrics forum I think I have now figured out how the scissors are going to work Basically the triangles of A,B&E and C,D&F will be feed to a double poll double throw (DPDT) relay linked to one motor from each crossover so that when one is thrown the relay will be energised and reverse the polarity. Similarly the other 2 points will then work G & H with a pair of double poll single throw (DPST) relays. one relay will provide positive to G and negative to H and the other one the reverse of that. This also makes G & H dead when both routes are straight ahead, otherwise I could just have used another DPDT relay linked to one motor. The motor switches will be interlocked, probably using a fifth and sixth motor mounted on the control panel to prevent both crossings being reversed at the same time. The many wires required to make all that work I have also had to solder in four of these wire links to the crossover from the points as when I chopped up the crossover the factory fitted links had to be removed. Pictured in place on the lifting section. Dale

I have now had time to sit down and figure out roughly how these scissor crossings are going to be worked. First the straight ahead position on both tracks, that's the easy bit! I figured that with the straight ahead routes set the acute crossings on the diamond would not need to be live, hence the shading in blue Now it starts to get a bit complicated, I know what needs to happen but I still need to work out how it will happen, if possible I would like to make it all work so that all I have to do is operate the point motors For the facing crossover the left hand crossing frog would need to take the negative feed from the outside track and the right hand frog would need to take the positive feed from the inside track For the trailing crossover the left hand frog would need to take the positive feed from the inside track and the right hand frog would need to take the negative feed from the outside track Also as mentioned previously I have built the scissors so that the two point frogs and the crossover are one electrical piece and as such will all change polarity to cross over as one but hopefully without having to throw all 4 points as I was hoping to use the route setting of the required crossover to sort out the polarities of the 2 acute crossings. To complicate matters further I had envisaged using a separate controllers between the two tracks for DC operation, with the possibility to select between the two on all the fiddle yard roads, again this is easy for going straight ahead but gets a bit tricky when crossing over, if this proves too complicated I will have to suffice with a single one. Any assistance on this one would be much appreciated, hopefully I've not bitten off more than I can chew here! Dale

Charlie, Is it best to pre-order through the Realtrack Website? When I put the 2 FGW units in the basket the postage is doubled from £6 for one to £12 for both, will there be postage discounts for buying more than one unit? Thanks Dale

Just a quick update The second scissor crossing has now been assembled, having sourced another insulating joiner. I have borrowed some SMP joiners to fit between the cut rails off the point frog to the crossing as these are smaller than the Peco equivalent and might fit without me having to cut them down. Turning my thoughts how I might wire them up, I have constructed them so that the triangle of the 2 point frogs and the crossing on the diamond are 1 piece, the polarity of these would reverse as one when the points were thrown. The crossover itself only needs to be energised if a train is to be routed across it, I'm yet to work out whether I will have to throw all 4 points simultaneously or just the 2 relevant to the train for this to work correctly. I think its best I suss out the wiring before I install them. I will have to do some drawings and some head scratching! Dale

Mick, A quick Flickr search would agree that 70015 is the other one that's been done although I can't say I noticed it as I whizzed passed Millbrook on an SWT 158. Dale

A day off work today prompted a trip to the Solent taking in Southampton Central, St Denys and Eastleigh. Must have seen about 7 class 70s, 009, 015 and 016 were all stabled at Millbrook when I passed around 0930 this morning. All pictures here taken at Eastleigh Turkish Delight stabled in the yard, did not move in the 2 hours I was there. 70018 in platform 3, hauling an entire rake of container flats with just 3 containers plonked in the middle of the rake. Must have sat there for a good 15 minutes while a Waterloo - Portsmouth was looped around it. SWT were not having a good day with Bournemouth-Poole being shut because of over-running engineering work. Then about 15 minutes later 70010 turned up with a slightly heavier loaded container train. 70010 has had the extra cooling ports or whatever they are called fitted although 70018, one of the 2 that did actually catch fire, has not been modified. Is it just me or do the Freightliner 70's have a ridiculous number of health and safety warning notices on them? Some repeated about every 3 feet! 70010 has also had the buffer shanks painted red and some new friction material stuck on the buffer faces. Dale

Thanks Jonathan, The previous code 100 scissors I made seems to work fine, it just needed the rail ends tweeting slightly so everything lined up. Also there was a problem with the frogs at the ends of the crossover was causing a short but some black nail polish borrowed from my sister did the trick, but that scissors uaed insulfrog parts whereas this one uses electrofrog parts so the wiring is slightly different. Dale

Just a quick update. Thanks to a fellow RMweb colleague I have managed to source the 8 points and 2 diamond crossings to make the two scissor crossings. The first on in exploded form And put together. The top left point seems to have a bit of a curve in it but this will pull straight when its pinned down. Unfortunately sod's law has dictated that I only seem to have 7 insulated fishplates in stock, each scissor requires 4 so another trip to the local model shop will be in order at some point this week before I can assemble the other one. Also I need to work out how I'm going to wire them up to work with both DCC and Analogue control with potentially 2 separate controllers, I like to make things complicated for myself! Dale

Bit of a sticking point Looking at my lifting section hanging on the wall (at a slightly jaunty angle) I was wondering how I might continue on towards what will be the scenic part of the layout. As with the completed side of this board efficient use of the space is paramount to maximise the operational of the layout. The front 4 roads in the fiddle yard are the shortest so will mainly be used for the storage of DMUs and light engines and as such I see it is necessary to be able to access these from both running lines but in the same token the other 5 lines are all very long, the outside 2 are both over 20 feet and it would be good to be able to access these from both running lines too. So, after laying out and trying various set ups using some old code 100 points I had lying around I decided I needed a Scissor crossing. Fortunately I made one last year again using some old code 100 points and a diamond crossing bought cheaply and without an intended use, basically I did it purely to see if it were possible. The finished scissor, it is code 100 so no use on the layout as I'm using code 75 but the same principal applies. I intend to use more second hand items to make my scissor crossing, this will be mirrored at the other end of the layout too so hacking up 8 brand new points and 2 diamond crossings is a bit extreme but second hand items will be fine in the fiddle yard. Dale.

Finally this stage of the layout was finished this morning The completed fan into all the roads and the point for the three sidings installed And here is the finished product after all the tools were removed and the area given a quick hoovering. Three sidings at this end, given there was one less track coming around the corner. Most conductive rail joiners have wires soldered to them however there are a few sections of track that aren't in contact with any of these now that the rails have been cut, so I now need to identify where these need to go then I can dismantle this side of the layout so I can start fitting point motors and wiring it up with each board turned up on its side, that will be much easier than crawling underneath and lying on my back trying to wire it in place. Dale

More from today, Looking at the last picture from yesterdays post it seemed that the fan into the remaining roads might be a little bit tight, so - The point at the bottom of shot laid yesterday has been taken up, the length of track shortened by about 3 inches and what was a left hand point replaced with a right hand point. I only had one small radius left hand point in stock so went out and bought two more, this is roughly what the finished set up will be, but I appear to have run out of rail joiners, so perhaps another trip to the local model shop will be in order tomorrow so I can finally finish off the fiddle yard. Then I can get on with some wiring! Dale

The ball is really rolling now! Forth track down..... .....And connected, the point here actually being laid over an existing point motor hole from one of the previous track plans. Followed quickly by the fifth and final track off the lifting section. Some tinkering still required to connect all the remaining tracks to follow in the next couple of days. Dale

A quick update from this afternoon. Armed and dangerous with a disc cutter - safety specs on. First track laid and cut across onto the lifting section. Two more. Overview of the corner taking shape. I have also been along and cut all the other rails across board joints, about 70 odd. Amazingly I haven't broken any of the cutting discs I've borrowed and I've only had one solder joint fail as I cut it, fortunately its on a straight so shouldn't be too tricky to repair. I have seen that the heat from the cutting disc is actually melting the solder onto the screws, but as I say only one actual failure. More of the same tomorrow hopefully! Dale

A quick half hour or so out in the garage due to the miserable Bank Holiday weather. Following on from yesterday I tested the length of the two sidings I laid. I hoped to get a 3 car 23m DMU vehicle such as a 159 in the longer siding. Unfortunately it is only long enough for a 2 car. So, in true Mythbusters style I achieved the results I required by cheating slightly! After than I turned my attention to the other end of the layout, adjusting what I had laid already and having a bit of a tidy up. I had laid the next section of track on the on the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th roads from the back, these were removed. Then I remembered how I'd done the other end, The back 2 roads were relaid with the second one straightened, the 4th and 5th roads were then moved across and straightened. The offending joint which prevents this being a mirror image of the other end, If the point had been dead square across the joint I may have considered cutting it in half, I've see it done on other layouts but not at that angle. The inner most road with a point laid on top in the same place as the one at the other end. Next job will be borrowing a cutting disc from a friend so I can work on the lifting section while keeping it in a state where it can still be removed. Dale

Well then, Nearly 2 months since I last did anything to the layout due to work of bad weather and preferring to be indoors working on rolling stock I have ventured out to the garage this morning to get the ball rolling again, and with the next 9 days off work there should hopefully be some more progress to come during this period. First the inner radius around the corner was laid. Next came the ladder into the remaining 4 roads, because the gaps between the tracks are wider than Peco Streamline spacing but narrower than Setrack spacing I had to set the first point at a few degrees from square so that I didn't have a dogleg into roads 7,8 and 9. View from just above ground level I have also identified a space for two extra sidings which should be long enough to a 2 or 3 car dmu Second siding installed Overall view after I'd removed all the tools and given the area a once over with the hoover (not of the English Electric variety, the time for that will come eventually!) I have also soldered the rails to the screw heads across the board joint. Next stage will be to do similar to the other end, I'm not sure how the extra board joint created by the lifting section will affect the symmetry with this end - watch this space! Dale

2 FGW sets (603 and 617) and 2 ATW sets (602 and 610 spring to mind but not 100% sure on those) have had swapped DMSL coaches and have been as they are now for many years, possibly reformed as far back as regional railways days maybe as a result of collision damage or one coach from each set suffering a major failure resulting in a hybrid being formed which as never been corrected once all vehicles were returned to service. And of course both 143613 under Wessex Trains and 143615 under Valley Lines both suffered terminal fires about 10 years ago now and have been scrapped s a result. Dale