Ian Smith

Rich, It is my intention to mount the motor down the boiler and into the smokebox. I will make the boiler assembly a separate unit which will have a peg at the cab end fitting into a hole in the cab front, and bolted down to the footplate under the smokebox (that's my hope anyway). The motor I have purchased for the job is one of Nigel Lawton's micro motors, which at 6mm diameter and 10mm long fits in the tubing I will use for the boiler. Just need time to make it all ;-) Ian

David, I've just looked up the 1701 class in Vol1 of Russell's Great Western Engines, unfortunately there is only a broadside photo of 1752 in very early condition (with the socket type of lamp fittings) which does show the handrails unpainted (there are extra short handrails on the saddle near the top just below and rearward of the chimney and just below the safety valve casing, and additional ones on the footplate above the front steps (which you say you haven't fitted yet). There is also a photo of no 997 (an 850 class) showing the front of the saddle in what looks like the same livery - the smokebox ring, hinges and handles are clearly not black. A pair of photos of no 1941 (also 850 class) in works grey livery shows the saddle front and the smokebox front and door all black (but the handles, hinges and ring are also black - photos of tender engines in the grey livery show "steel" hinges and handles)!! This early livery lark really is a bit of a minefield!! I have many of the old RTCS volumes on GWR engines, some of which have colour plates of engines in early livery but they are paintings so artistic licence may have been adopted - next time I'm in the loft I'll look out the volume on 0-6-0 tank engines. I hadn't noticed before, but I think that the cab roofs were black. Hope this helps

David, I look forward to seeing how this loco build progresses. As you are aware my prefered modelling period is the same as yours. So far it is looking pretty good. If I remember correctly The Great Western Way doesn't really cover the fineries of livery very well, i.e. the fronts of the saddle black or green? the colour of the tank filler (tops of side tanks too green or black? - Obviously not an issue on a saddle tank)? Obviously the smokebox door will be black, but I think photos show the hinges and door handles steel. The chimney should I believe be copper capped (the photo of yours looks as though it is painted brass colour - but that might be just the flash). It was always my belief that the handrails would be steel rather than brass, but like you have no photographic evidence either way. Looking good though, keep up the good work! Ian

David, A very informative entry. I have a real soft spot for the outside framed brake vans (have 2 P4 ones, only one finished which can be seen in my Trefallion blog(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/834/entry-6895-trefallion-wagons-and-vans/)). The David Eveleigh kit is on my list of wants! I have yet to try painting a 2mm coach, however one of my 4mm P4 ones can be seen in the above blog (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/834/entry-6953-trefallion-coaching-stock/)- I don't bother with the finer points of the lining, just use my Rotring pen with black ink to line the panels, and a mahogany colour for the window frames. I have tried to put a gold line just inside the chocolate panels (after the photos were taken), but don't like it, I made it far too thick so it will need to be removed (luckily I used a water based ink). Ian

Rich, Thankyou, I might take you up on that. My preference is for the small tank version as I always thought they look much prettier :-) However, I really wanted to see if I can build something working in 2mm myself as if I can't get something relatively simple like a 2-4-0 running then I probably ought to revert back to the larger P4 scale. Stubborn old fool that I am :-) Ian

Kris, Yes the body will be scratch built, I made a start last night on the footplate. David, I have bought one of Nigel Lawtons micro motors for the project, it will be mounted backwards down the boiler and smokebox (I will make these as a separate bolt on component to the rest of the body). Until I get the motor into the chassis and get the thing running I have no idea how fast it will go - This is all a bit of an experiment, and if it needs adjustment so be it :-) Don, My intention is to solder the gear box to one side of the chassis - it is narrow enough so that it won't bridge the gap to the other side so shorting shouldn't be a problem. Thank you all for your words of encouragement. Ian

Work has begun in earnest on the GWR Small Metro Tank that I wanted to build, some of you may already have seen the little gearbox that I had built for the project in a reply I had posted in Missy's blog http://www.rmweb.co....-2mm-finescale/. Well as the chassis was being built I decided that the gearbox already built was a little too large and would encroach into the cab space (the model I am attempting to make will be an open cabbed Metro Tank to suit my preferred modelling period of c1905). So a rummage in my parts box yielded an even smaller worm/gear combo (38:1 I think) than the one used previously. The first stage was to sweat together the worm gear to a spur gear that would drive onto a further gear on the driven axle, then the sides and ends of the gearbox were "fettled" from some phosphor bronze sheet (actually the material sold by the 2mmFS Association for chassis sideframes), the shape of these parts can be seen in the photos below. Given my inability to accurately mark out and drill the holes for the worm driveshaft and the gear layshaft acurately, I do what I always do and drill the hole for the layshaft, and file out a slot for the worm driveshaft - the driveshaft will eventually ride in small phosphor bronze bushes that are soldered in place, as this allows the driveshaft to be manipulated to the correct mesh. Note that since the gearbox is built in two halves accuracy in drilling the layshaft holes is not that important as the holes willl be aligned by the layshaft later. Each half of the gearbox is folded and the joint strengthened with solder, hopefully the photo will illustrate this far better than any words would be able to. Assembly is simply the 2 halves of the gearbox soldered together with the gears on the layshaft sandwiched between, the worm is super-glued onto the driveshaft which then has the bushings fitted either end of the worm and that assembly too is soldered into place (I put a drop of oil on the driveshaft between the worm and the bushing just to make sure the I don't solder the whole thing solid ). Once the whole is complete and seems to run without binding, any excess material is carefully filed off (making sure that no damage is inflicted on the worm or gears), the whole lot is washed thoroughly to remove any flux residue, and finally I blast brake cleaner through it to flush out any remaining bits of swarf. The last operation is to flood the thing with oil, and pop the driveshaft in a mini drill to give it a good run in. In the lower photo the Metro Tank chassis can be seen, the spur gear on the layshaft will eventually engage with the gear on the rear drive axle. The final drive will be 38:1 from the worm then 22:12 giving about 70:1 overall. Ian

I have to say that Highbury looks even better in the flesh, photos don't do it justice. I spent a happy half hour or so disturbing Jerry (and Will), picking their brains, and topping up my inspiration for 2mmFS. Thankyou to you both for your patience. Ian

Julia, That looks absolutely fantastic. Puts the gear box I was making for my GWR Metro Tank to shame. I must have a look at those gears by Mikroantriebe. Keep up the good work! Ian

A lovely little model John.

David, I have started on some artwork for some cast plates, as I intend trying a bit of self etching and thought they would be a good thing to start off with. Because they are so small (and because only the number plates need to be different) I am going to attempt a set of plates for a couple of W1 cattle wagons, a couple for O4 and O5 open wagons, and a couple for V6 Iron Mink too (all on the same small etch). If they are successful I will let you know (and post something here too). Ian

Kris, Thanks for that, I never thought that someone might have asked the same question Ian

I don't know whether this is the right place to ask but since the topic is "Any Question Answered" I'll ask here... What weight do people usually make their 2mm FS wagons and coaches? I have so far made 4 wagons, but have only put a little lead under 2 of them, and wondered what weight I sould be aiming at per axle? Thanks in advance, Ian

This entry is the result of my Christmas project... I still has one GWR Iron Mink kit that I purchased from the 2mm Scale Association several years ago. The kit comprises 2 identical sprues each having a floor, an end and a side. The first step was to prepare the floor, the centre was established, then the axle centres established from that datum (each was lightly scribed into the plastic), I also drilled vent holes for the fumes of the solvent to escape. The V-Iron was bent up along with the Colin Waite axle guards (I decided to use 2 fixed axle guards for this build – compensated wagons in 2mm scale seem a little pointless to me, but I’m prepared to be shot down). The axle guards and V-Iron were super glued to the floor making sure that the axles when fitted will be parallel to each other and perpendicular to the edge of the floor, I made use of the little holes in the axle guards through which I could see the previously scribed lines. The brake gear was super glued to a small piece of 40 thou styrene, to make fitting to the floor easier, and when fitting the end of my tapered broach was used to align the brake gear to the V-Iron : The kit wagon sides were prepared by filing off the hinges on each of the doors, then the centre 3 planks of each door were carefully filed back to a depth of about 20 thou. The top and bottom rails of each door were then added with small strips of 20 thou styrene, one edge of the strip was slightly bevelled (this may not be visible in the photos). Doing this allows retention of the door handle and locking mechanism. I also drilled out the horse hook holes in the solebar as per the prototype at this stage too. (The body is shown below assembled around one of the floors, and with the cast white metal buffers (again from the 2mm Scale Association – although now replaced by brass turnings) The next stage was to fit the floor unit into the wagon – had I not built up the body previously this could be done now around the floor. My reasoning behind making up the body and chassis as separate units was to aid getting the buffer height correct, as the floor unit can be slid up and down within the body until the correct height is achieved, then secured with solvent (obviously for this to be possible, the floor unit needs to be a tight interference fit within the body cavity : The next phase of the operation was to prepare some new hinges for the doors (12 will be required, 3 on each door), a slim length of 5 thou styrene was taped to a piece of tufnol (although anything that would allow separation later would do), with a length of 10 thou plastic rod positioned down it’s centre (once dried, I allowed it to set overnight), individual hinges could be cut from the length (I happened to have some 10 thou rod in my box, although if necessary some can be made by gently warming a piece of sprue a few centimetres above a candle flame to soften it, then gently draw apart to create a thin filament of plastic) : Once the hinges had dried, the cast axle guards were added (again these are old 2mm Scale Association components that have now been replaced – by etchings I think) The next stage was to fit the roof – I decided to use 10 thou styrene sheet for this (35mm x 17mm), which was given a bit of a curve by rolling over it on the back of a mouse mat with the round handle of an x-acto knife, and the corners rounded off on a piece of fine grade emery paper. Because this material is quite delicate, I decided to fit a central spine to the inside of the wagon for additional support. Once the roof had been fitted and allowed to dry off, the roof joining strips were added with narrow strips of 5 thou styrene : After everything had dried, the roof strips were trimmed to length and the brake handle added and soldered to the L shaped 0.2 mm phosphor bronze wire that I used to represent the vertical rod that substituted for an internal V-Iron on the prototype. The completed wagon can be seen below :

David, From what I remember from reading of "Great Western Way", the interpretation I always had was that the GWR had all black wagons at one point (very early on), then all red ones, and finally all grey ones. Clearly the ironwork at or below the solebars could have been black on the red wagons, I don't think that the body ironwork would have been black (I think that even on the orthochromatic film of the day that black would look considerably darker than the red woodwork, and in my opinion that isn't supported in the photographs). Either way I intend to weather my red wagons in such a way as the axle guards, brakes, springs and axle boxes will be quite dirty anyway - although having followed your link, I now think that black below the solebar does look nice :-) Ian

David, I've managed to locate an article by John Lewis all about GWR outside framed Brake Vans (I knew I had one somewhere), it was published in British Railway Journal No. 17 (way back in 1987!! - God I feel old sometimes :-) ) All of the photographs bar one do show the stove pipe exitting the roof in the middle of the Guards enclosed area along the centre line of the roof. Indeed the original engineering drawing of the van shows the same. The "bar one" is shows a van converted to an Engineers van (no. 80913 originally 8768) in 1926. The photograph of one of these vans involved in an accident with 3 Iron Mink shows Brake Van no. 17986, branded Didcot, in newly painted condition with small 5" G.W.R so presumably the photograph dates 1897 - 1903. The verandah end clearly shows a cupboard the full width of the wagon (with what I assume is the sandbox operating handle in the middle of it). I hope this is of use. Ian

David, The printed cast plates as fitted to the wagon. A little more dirtying is required for my liking (and the age that the paint work is supposed to be). I thnk the results are quite acceptable, the model actually looks better in the flesh than it does under a desk lamp and camera flash. I just need to decide what to put in it, and fit the DG couplings. Ian

David, I've re-tried printing the plates on the inkjet, setting the background to a slightly darker grey, and the font to bold (still 3pt - I can't remember what font I chose in the end - I tried several) has made the writing much more legible. I will now try to cut the little blighters out and see if they are about the right size (the number plates have to fit between the end stanchions). Obviously if it works I will add another photo of the results. Ian

The name board looks very effective Chris.

Nick, The wagon I have tried to copy is no. 632 which is shown in Swindon in a newly painted condition in 1894 in Russell's GW Wagon Appendix (narrative says it's an O5 but the number is not in the range listed by Atkins for that diagram of wagon). At this time the wagon has cast plates, and I presume in Red livery. What is interesting in the photograph is that the background of the plates is a distinctly different colour (or shade) to the body proper (I assume grey plates on a red body). For my model I have assumed that by my period (c. 1905) the wagon would be in the same condition as the 1894 picture, but would be getting close to needing a re-paint. (I have no idea how long goods stock (or any other rolling stock for that matter) would survive between re-paints). David, If the dates you have given are correct (I thought that the 25" lettering was introduced in 1904?), then it looks like the date of the photo is incorrect - 1894 with cast plates! I have not discounted the inkjet printed plates (I know that 5" lettering is going to look pretty tiny in 2mm however it is produced), the problem in the ones I've printed is that the letters are so small that they just show as being a slightly blurred paler writing on the grey background. I did think that I scratching through grey paint to show the white background might have a little more definition - although I must admit that the 50 year old eye-sight / dexterity might be a bit too much to overcome :-) I think it will be a case of try it and see. Ian

My 4 plank open has now been painted, the colour I originally bought was just too orangey (Humbrol Satin 132) despite the colour on the tin lid, so a second coat was applied this time adding Humbrol Matt 70 to it in a ratio of about 3 x132 to 1 x 70 to obtain the "warm", "light", "dark" red that GWR wagons are reported to have been painted in the later years of the 19th Century. Whilst I had the paint pots out I also applied a little weathering to the 2 Iron Mink that I had already completed, for this a little Precision Paints Track Colour was dry brushed around the lower sides and ends and the solebars, springs, axleboxes, etc. This weathering was built up in a couple of applications to hopefully give a subtle effect. Photos of the 3 wagons can be seen below. The 4 plank open I intend to fit with the cast plates (rather than painted lettering) that were fitted to the example I have copied. I did try printing the "G.W.R" and "632" on a dark grey background on matt photo paper on the inkjet printer - not completely satisfied with the result as the lettering is only about 3pt font high and is pretty well invisible. I will now try scratching the lettering onto a piece of white styrene sheet that has been painted grey to see if that is anymore to my liking (so as yet the red wagon shows no sign of company ownership). Ian

David, I intend to build at least 2 x W1 cattle wagons (your preferred moelling era is the same as mine), I have a 2mm Scale Association rigid 11'0" underframe (which carries the part no. S5-067, bought in the mid '90s) which I purchased specifically for one. I was originally going to scratchbuild mine but using the 2mm Assoc BR version seems a much more attractive proposition now (although I would probably make my own top doors to save buying a chassis kit that I probably won't use) Ian

David, Thank you for that information. I did intend to scratchbuild any locos I wanted, obviously having etched chassis available would make that prospect much much easier, and clearly the (coreless) motors that are now available would make my preferred prototypes much more acheivable - I have a fondness for small GWR engines in particular (517, 850, Metro tank, and always liked Dean & Armstrong Goods engines) although tender engines I would always mount the motor in the tender and arrange a universal jointed driveshaft to the engine. I've just looked at the Worsley Works kits, and when I've built up the 4 wheelers would rather like 2 or 3 clerestory bogie coaches to form an alternative rake. Ian

Mikkel, I think any electric drill would do - the dome and safety valve I used had a cast spigot at the bottom which obviously was mounted in the chuck. I have a hollow dome from somewhere that will eventually go on my Mallard Models Duke 4-4-0, polishing that might me a little more challenging :-)

I had another look at the photograph on which I based my model wagon, and the colour of the wagon sides is distinctly different to the background of the G.W.R and no. plates - from that I would judge that the two colours are different, body probably red, and the plates grey. I had a go at printing up some plates, I ended up with a 3pt font, and you are quite right I don't think it really matters if the font is not quite right - the lettering is hardly visible.