GordonC

Going on the fact that the existing models are still on shelves and at greatly-reduced prices I doubt Bachmann will be in a rush to produce any more liveries like TPE!

Was that 47704 or 47706? 47706 was the one that kept its Scotrail livery forever and did get really tatty while working NSE services. Wasn't 47704 repainted into RES fairly quickly? It was the one which had the large cabside numbers while in Scotrail livery

ouch!!!!

37418 in LL Blue? Isn't that the one pictured in the Bachmann Highlander train pack with 2 Kyle line Mk 2 coaches that are due this year? Would be an odd choice to commission unless they're adding to Bachmanns planned production so it'd be sold generally in the train pack or exclusively on its own from Olivias

Is there not different kinds of china clay traffic though? I'm no expert, but were the clay hood wagons that were so distinctive not replaced by the CDAs, presumably more a powder or pellet form. Where are the bullets not for china clay slurry i.e. in liquid form?

I think your logic is a bit flawed. If DC locos are so popular like the Class 71 and 74, well why has it taken so long to get a Class 73 up to modern standards? They dont even need third rail track to run on when on diesel. Would a 73 not have far better sales potential (time period, lifespan, number of livery variations) than 71/74's? Is the same Lima/Hornby Class 73 any newer than the Hornby 90/91/92 models and its been getting rolled out for the past 20 years too? It may have been one of the better Lima models, but it still hasn't been replaced until the planned Dapol model. Its a big assumption to make that Heljans shunter will sell at £100. I've got 3 85's but absolutely no plans to get a Class 05 And you're forgetting the Class 92's are overhead and third rail, they would look perfectly sensible on third rail tracks on their own too. It wasn't just the model Class 92's expectations that were over-optimistic - how many years did it take to get the real ones in service and have some of them not still to do a days work now 20 years later? Had the real ones been more visible and better travelled, the models may have sold better too. I cant disagree with your assessment of the manufacturers priorities, but when you look at some of the things that have been produced and seeing the steam and diesel classes getting ticked off, I am amazed that more of the AC locos and units haven't been produced in all this time. I'm not saying every AC loco class should be produced, but some of the larger classes have to have potential for long-term sales. It has got to be an untapped market while the rest get increasingly crowded

The difficultly with selling catenary could be the time lag between people knowing they're there and available and then getting around to making use of them in their next layout. Not many folk are serial layout builders so it could take quite a while for sales to start building up. I just hope Dapol are in for the long haul with them and dont give up too quickly

There are plenty of double-track sections of the WCML that could be modelled either as core WCML sections or diversionary routes, urban or rural if you're looking for real locations. I dont think its unique to AC modellers to want to have a gallon in mind but only a pint pot of space in practice!!

Those classes also touch on quite a large geographical spread of the country as well along with numerous livery options over the past 35 years since they've been around

Is there any sign of these Turbot wagons yet from Dapol?

With such an untapped marked like AC locos and units, someone (I'm presuming Bachmann as they're the main manufacturer making moves in this area) may need to produce a couple of models to span the eras to determine what the public are interested in buying and what they aren't. If the Class 85 covers up to early 90s and Class 350 from 2004 onwards there is perhaps a missing period in the middle that still needs covering to get a better idea of what sales to expect for the different eras

The thing that surprises me is how much the old models are still retailing for. I mean new liveries of the 87 and 90 when they come out (ok its been a year or two), but they've been pretty steep for old, basic models. The 142 is the same, compare that to the Real track Class 144

There is also the Class 317/318/455 family. Have you noticed the similarity between the Class 150/2 bodyshells and the Class 318 in particular? Yes, of course there are details that are different and the underframe is quite different not to mention the middle car, but on seeing some of the conversions of Sprinters cut and shut they can be remarkably convincing! I cant see a Class 318 being produced without the other varieties to boost sales

I'd perhaps disagree with that about the Class 89. I think thats looking ripe for being picked off by Heljan with their MO - Stylish, unique prototype, large express passenger loco, niche model, a handful of liveries they could produce in one go. With some of the others they've produced it'd seem a natural progression at some point - Lion, Kestrel, Falcon, DP2 etc. Of the others, I'd think the 81, 86, 87, 90 could all have a good chance, depending on how they go then possibly 91 and 92

The numbers of real ones surviving isn't a good indicator of popularity. Classes 81-84 were pretty small classes with only 60 built in total or 61 if you include the 89. There were 50 Class 58's, how many of them are preserved? Or looking at it another way, how many diesel classes of 10 or 15 built have any left? There was 44 Class 15's built and only one survive. Even popular classes like Warships - 2 (of 38 and 33). And thats for diesels that don't need overhead to actually be used. Can you imagine the Health and Safety risk assessments these days to have 25kV overhead on a (generally volunteer-run) preserved line?? The AC locos survival rate, even as static bodyshells with little chance of running again is pretty good in comparison to some of the diesels!

I'm sure some of the blue and grey coaches were branded 'Intercity Scotrail'. The photos from the Polmont crash spring to mind as being an example of that branding

I'm not really in any rush myself either. At the moment, I probably fall into the dreaded 'collector' category, other than a testing plank I dont have a layout to run my stock on and it all lives in boxes unfortunately. Hopefully once my toddler daughter gets a little older, I'll actually get some free time to get down to layout building in the room set aside for one. Catenary will feature, but possibly not like a blanket over every length of track! Until that point, I'll just be gathering stock and equipment as and when it becomes available. Class 85s are right in the period and area I model (WCML ScR/LMR in mid 80's - mid 90's)

I always get very irritated by comments in the media where someone is portraying it as gospel that AC locos or units 'dont sell' like its some kind of golden rule. I think the fact is that the market hasn't really been tested in the same way that other areas have. We've got the Bachmann 85 which is simply a superb model. There's the Heljan 86, which was rather disappointing in the flesh but apart from that, on the locos side all the rest are 20+ years old mouldings. Now I dont buy 20+ year old diesels so why would I want to pay for something that is little better (decoration wise) than what was around 20 years so (and an awful lot cheaper). No, I'll keep my money til there's something better thats worth splashing out on. As for the units, well has the AC unit market really been tested? There's the Desiro. Again, a fantastic model, but its pretty restricted in time period and do the modern DC units sell as well as the earlier ones? Bachmann and Hornby have had a series of older DC units that have flown off the shelves, while the only other modern one I can think of was the Hornby Class 466. Now judging by what has been released for that and that it wasn't followed up with a 465 suggests it didn't meet expectations. If the market for DC units is of an earlier period, it would really need an earlier AC unit to test the theory for AC units too. Possibly 304/305/308 or 302/307 or 309 or ideally 303/311!! With such a great Class 150 model I'd wonder whether Bachmann would look at the similar 317/318/455 families (and even 319/320/321/322) to see if any components could be shared or based on. The Desiro rather than the 85 may have been shrunk to 'N' gauge as much for potential to produce some of the DC Desiros (see Model Rail for resprayed 350 as a 450). Shrinking the class 85 would mean you'd only be able to produce 85's and if the 'OO' gauge market is judged as risky, I cant see the 'N' gauge one being any safer! I dont really see the lack of catenery being a problem, if it bothers anyone enough, they'll find a way to get something that looks right to them. If that means scratchbuilding then so be it. Personally, I'd be quite happy having lovely AC models zipping round a layout with or without catenery. In my eye's I'd see the overhead being there until one day it would be whether that was something ready to plant, kit built or scratchbuilt. The thing that might make Bachmann the most likely to try another AC loco again might be shared components with its Class 85. Hornby models tend to be more expensive to start with, AC locos tend to be more expensive than diesel too - combining both those facts doesn't sound appealing! Heljan presumably got stung with the Class 86 (although I am surprised a RES liveried one never appeared, that would presumably have fitted the bodyshell time period too).

A Class 303 would be fantastic!!!

The Highlander set looks great, but it would be nice to see an Inverness Large Logo Class 37/4 that doesn't have sound and therefore make it a bit more affordable at some point too though

Is aviation fuel not still delivered to prestwick airport?

I'd have to disagree there. The next AC electric loco would need to be something from a larger class with more livery options than any of the Class 81-84 options. I'd be amazed if the 86s or 87s weren't near the front of the queue to get updated. I think it was possibly a mistake releasing 85101 as a limited edition with the inflated prices + collectors club membership costs. Had it been a general release I'd have had one to join my pair of BR Blue 85s. as someone that has all the existing RTC models, the RTC Class 84 isn't one that would interest me

There was a feature a while ago with a few pictures of EJ Steeles yard in Hamilton. I think it was in Model Rail, possibly up to a year or 18 months ago

What does a brake test before the split portion can set off involve? Does that need equipment in the brake vehicle more than is in the loco hauling the train? Presumably the loco would have gauges to show the air brake pressure or vacuum pressure being maintained

I model the late BR-blue period into sectorisation. For me, being in my mid-30s now, it was just a fascinating time when I can remember the blanket of blue and grey paint on pretty much anything remotely railway related, before all the colours exploded, passing through the tasteful and stylish liveries to the garish you tend to see now. I loved the variety of traction, where the characterful older diesels were gradually replaced by the incoming modern units and the railway was being modernised on a budget. I miss the different sounds and smells, where you wouldn’t know what was about to turn up on pretty much any train, the holiday trains hauled by what was normally freight locos, the variety of traffic operating under what was effectively steam-age semaphore signals and trackwork. There was an excitement about going spotting then which there isn’t now. Now you can pretty much guess from the timetable what type of unit it’ll be, what colour it’ll be in and if it fails the train is cancelled rather than an unusual replacement drafted in from somewhere else. I don’t remember anything before BR Blue so kettles don’t hold any appeal for me, its mainly diesel and electric locos that capture my attention. It seemed a much more innocent and honest time. On my layout the earlier withdrawn classes survived longer than reality so scruffy 55’s, 24s, 40s, 27s, 25s can all be seen along with early 1990’s sectorisation liveries.