I.C.L. 11

There has been some talk of constructing a working replica Lion but I somehow don't think mainline registration is on the cards. In Germany the Adler replica and it's train have operated on the mainline regularly as seen on flickr here. Legend has it that during the mainline runs of c1980 Lion was authorised to run under it's own power due to incompatible coupling and braking arrangements (the consist had a simple air brake using lorry components for emergency use). Just like the Hornby Rocket really... Some inspiration for adding a footplate crew:

The World Of Railways news story includes something not in rapidoandy's RMweb post, it says "including the locomotive the film is named after". So if true Rapido are at least producing Thunderbolt, among other things. Maybe a collaboration could see Hornby produce Lion and Rapido produce Thunderbolt from the same tooling? Unlikely I know.

Lion, Tiger and Thunderbolt etched nameplates are all listed in the Thatcher Plates pdf catalogue. However, at risk of spoiling the fun, Tiger probably looked quite different to the Lion we recognise today which owes much of its appearance to various rebuilds most notably when it was restored and tarted up in 1929/30.

I should preface this by saying I have never used Building O Gauge Online flux but have often been tempted to try it based on hearing good things. Regarding a possible alternative supplier, pulling up the product safety data sheet from the webshop page gives the product name "Soldering Solution Frutti" and googling this led me to https://www.pearsons-glass.co.uk/safety-solder-flux The solution certainly appears to be a similar colour but again having never used either I can't comment on its effectiveness.

Historian & author Anthony Dawson recently discussed this on his YouTube channel which is well worth a visit for anybody interested in early locomotives. The following link should take you to the relevant part of his video: https://youtu.be/DndozLTmV9Y?t=104

Not a hope of mine but another prediction. Although not strictly suitable for Rocket or the L&M, perhaps the Londonderry Collieries/Seaham Harbour Chaldron wagons would have some appeal. They are similar enough to many early railways' wagons to look 'right' behind an 'era 1' loco whilst they lasted well into the 20th century so would be equally at home behind Pecketts etc. Very good point regarding eras but Hornby's Rocket is 1935 (based on the sectioned replica built by R. Stephenson & Co for the Science Museum and currently in the NRM Great Hall). I would like to see Hornby make a Lion to match the finesse of their Rocket. I suspect most potential buyers, myself included, will want it in the form that it can currently be seen in Liverpool Museum or alternatively in 'Thunderbolt' paintjob as per the movie which owes much of its appearance to the 1929/30 rebuild (tender, firebox cladding and chimney all completely changed to name a few). The cost of extra tooling to model the loco in it's pre-1859 L&MR life (bearing in mind it was rebuilt there too) would probably be unviable given the potential market for the early version even with the potential to produce sister engine Tiger too. But would the hoped-for Lion follow in Rockets footsteps by being labelled era 1 when it is in fact era 3?

Seeking Experience... Has anybody else considered renaming the coaches? As many readers will be well aware the coaches in the packs (and the forthcoming L&MR Open Third) were modelled off the replica vehicles at the NRM York. These were built in 1930 to accompany Lion during the centenary celebrations and the three first class coaches were named Traveller, Huskisson (both at NRM York) and Experience (in storage at Liverpool Museum). Obviously the only one of these names to be reflected by the models is Experience in the R3809 ltd ed pack. As for Huskisson and Traveller which have not been produced I am sure Hornby have considered the idea of offering these as an "NRM edition" in a future catalogue possibly with the inclusion of an open third to maintain the Rocket+3 coach format. Currently, however the only way to model the NRM vehicles would be to rename the existing models with transfers. My own interest in renaming coaches stems from owning a half-built K's Lion. Both Experience and one of the third open coaches were transferred to into the ownership of Liverpool Museums along with Lion in the 1960s and these were seen on the main line together in 1980 in connection with the Rocket 150 celebrations. With Hornby's announcement of the L&MR open third (pre-ordered) I would love an authentic train for Lion but I hesitated too long on buying an R3809 and now the cheapest buy it now example on ebay is nearly double RRP which is arguably worth it for such a collector's item but more money than I can justify spending for the sake of a single coach! With more of the R3810 packs appearing on the market recently these are currently fairly easy to obtain and it occurs to me that there may be other people out there who, like me, would be interested in renaming their coaches to reflect the actual replica vehicles and provide variety alongside the factory-applied names (subject to the factory printing being removable with T-cut or similar). Of course Fox etc produce gold alphabet lettering but not in any similar font as far as I can see. I have considered approaching Railtec but unfortunately there is little prospect of me making a trip to York to take dimensions of the lettering on the full-size coaches so I don't have any useful information to offer.

Many coaches never received replacement windows at all and carried the original flush ones their whole lives until being disposed of in the mid-to-late seventies. Some vehicles lasted in service well into the eighties before being withdrawn with original flush windows still fitted. I trawled through the Vintage Carriages Trust Carriage Survey website this evening and found quite a few examples of preserved vehicles which have eluded modification and still retain their original flush windows. I have listed a few of them below (I was concentrating on carriages built 1954-57). The withdrawal/preservation dates given on the website may be a bit sketchy but they are good enough to prove that there were early vehicles with unmodified windows owned by BR well into the Rail Blue era. TSO 4199 built 1956 (lot. 30172, York), acquired for preservation 1982, at East Lancs Rly. TSO 4215 built 1956 (lot. 30172, York), acquired for preservation 1983, at Bo'ness (noted for having original windows here). TSO 4325 built 1956 (lot. 30207, BRCW), acquired for static use at Huddersfield station 1984. SK 25362 built 1957 (lot 30349, Wolverton), acquired for preservation 1989, at Barrow Hill. CK 15928 built 1956 (lot 30317, Wolverton), acquired for preservation 1988?, at East Lancs Rly (another photo on Wikimedia). BSK 34393 built 1954 (lot 30074, Wolverton), acquired for preservation 1974, at Great Central Rly. BSK 34562 built 1955 (lot 30095, Wolverton), acquired for preservation 1974, at Severn Valley Rly. BSK 34676 built 1955 (lot 30156, Wolverton), acquired for preservation 1986, at Strathspey Rly. Of course it's true that the majority of early mk1 coaches were converted with replacement raised aluminium window frames (which Dapol have said they will produce in the future) but some of the original design represented by this first batch from Dapol certainly did last long into the blue & grey period so it would be appropriate to run a mixture of the two different window styles, whatever the livery.

It's clear that Dapol have worked very hard on this. The detail far surpasses all the various kit and RTR offerings produced to date. The interior detail of the Dapol model is not present on any of the past offerings (I have built the Walsworth Models kit and it only included a basic boiler which was poorly cast iirc) and none include any hint of the vertical engine itself which is most noticeable as it's mounted between the cab doors. Interior detail isn't easy to fit on the previous offerings as they are all designed to have the motor intruding into the cab to some degree. Dapol need to be commended for seemingly managing to squeeze everything into the bunker or under the floor, allowing them to go to town on the detail. This is particularly amazing as the information sheet mentions they are using "Dapol's proven motor and gearbox" rather than taking an easy option of fitting an unproven smaller motor (something which other manufacturers have been caught out by in the past). The underframe detail shown in the first image is also superb as it clearly shows boiler bottom and ashpan, engine crank case end, drive chain, brake blocks with proper relief (not flat etchings) and brake rigging. All these things are absent from previous offerings. The only slight niggle some people may have is the moulded coal which is a step change compared to the Terrier and Jinty which have empty bunkers allowing you to add your own "real" coal. On the OO gauge RTR sentinels, flat moulded coal next to the black body does tend to look as if the whole bunker top is one flat sheet with no coal space at all. The flat bunker top arrangement is a necessary evil given the amount of gubbins hidden below and I'm sure it would be quite easy to modify it if you wished to add your own coal. It's a pity these locos were not used more widely in industry as they had many advantages over a conventional small tank engine. Their small, efficient boilers can raise steam in a fraction of the time it takes a conventional horizontal boiler and they use less coal in the process. For companies that used Sentinel road waggons (such as Fry's chocolate) there was also the advantage that maintenance practices and many parts were interchangeable. I'm sure given time Dapol will produce unlettered versions of the model as they are doing with the others which will make it easier to produce fictitious industrial liveries. I assume the sound file for the factory fitted versions will be produced for Dapol by Mr Soundguy as has done their Terrier and Class 08. The Terrier sound file is not listed on his website (although there is a demonstration on his Youtube channel) so I assume there is an exclusivity agreement with Dapol on the projects so they are only available by buying a factory fitted loco. I too would like an authentic chain drive Sentinel sound project. If Paul Chetter can find time to do it, obtaining recordings should be fairly easy in 2018 as Y1 '68153' is apparently due to return to service imminently on the Middleton Railway after a long period out of use and major overhaul. The other preserved Y1, 'Isebrook', is currently undergoing overhaul at Quainton.

Just a quick and very belated note to say that over the next two days (Friday 7th & Saturday 8th) Harburn Hobbies will be hosting their pre-Christmas promotional event in the shop which will feature Peco and Bachmann model railway products. Steve Haynes, Peco's Sales Manager, has made the long journey from the West Country to be in the shop. He will be demonstrating the SmartSwitch servo control system (suitable for all gauges) and answering any questions you may have. The latest rolling stock in OO9 will be running on a small narrow gauge layout and you'll also be able to have a 'sneak peak' at some brand new pre-production samples before anyone else! As there will be 20% off most Peco, Bachmann and Graham Farish products, this will be a great opportunity for you to stock up... and save money! There will be:- - 20% off most Peco Products. - 20% off most Bachmann and Graham Farish products. - Free prize draw to win Harburn Hobbies Gift Vouchers. - OO9 layout demonstrating DCC control using Gaugemaster equipment. - Latest Peco pre-production new models on show. - Refreshments. Normal opening hours apply both days (9.30am - 6.00pm both days). It'll be a fun time as always!

This coming weekend, Harburn Hobbies will be hosting a Bachmann & Graham Farish promotion event in the shop. This year the event will span two days, Friday 22nd and Saturday 23rd. All are very welcome. Throughout the two days there will be:- - Up to 20% off most Bachmann OO Gauge products. - Up to 20% off most Graham Farish N Gauge products. - Demonstration layout in operation. - DCC Sound demonstration using Bachmann and Gaugemaster products - have a drive yourself! DCC advice also available. - Loco service/repair advice. - Free prize draw. - Refreshments. In addition to the above, samples of the following forthcoming models will be on show:- Bachmann Branchline: 31-430 Midland 1F, 31-431 Midland 1F, 39-776 50ft Inspection Saloon, 39-126G BR Mk 1 CK – BR Maroon (weathered), 39-131 BR Mk 1 – Network Southeast, 39-127E BR Mk 1 CK – Crimson & Cream (weathered), 33-184 12T Salt Wagon – Tollemache. Graham Farish:- 372-184 ‘Princess Coronation’ 4-6-2 No. 46245 City of London, 372-388 A2 4-6-2 No. 60532 Blue Peter, 371-085 Class 25 - D5188, 371-088 Class 25 – 25 231, 371-169 Class 37 – 37 409 (DRS livery), 371-165 Class 37 – 37 407 Loch Long, 371-168 Class 37 – 37 506 (Railfreight), 374-786 CCT van – Tartan Arrow. There will also be a special announcement over the weekend... Usual terms and conditions apply to the discounts and normal opening hours apply - 9.30am to 6pm.

Very enjoyable thread. But after all, no mater how big the layout, how expensive the models or how long they took to build, aren’t we all just "Playing trains" to some extent?