RailWest

>>>Interestingly, the locking diagram indicates that lever 2 locks lever 5 and 8, whilst lever 5 locks lever 2...

Quite true. Homes for opposing directions lock each other to ensure that only one train can enter at a time. Lever 2 can NOT be pulled if 5 is reverse.

4 and 5 would be reverse ONLY for when the box was switched out. When the box is 'in' to accept a train from Fordingbridge, and assuming that it would be passing an Up train, would require 2 on, normal, Down loop clear to 3, 5 normal and 4 reverse to lock 5. 2 should be pulled off only when the approaching train is (nearly) at a stand at 2 (i/a/w Rule 39a). 

On 24/06/2022 at 22:55, KeithMacdonald said:

Penwithers Junction, besides being the start of this little local Newham branch, was also the route to the "other" line to Newquay, from Chasewater Junction via Perranporth.

 

 

Eh - not sure what you meant here ?

That's rather like saying that (say) Aller Junction was the route to the Kingsbridge Branch via Brent :-)

This is a photo of the end of the EoD frame at Shapwick. The frame from Woolston of course ended up at Washford, but although I saw the end plate many times I never bothered to take a photo of it :-(  Maybe someone may have access to wherever the parts are now stored (at the MHR?) to get one ? I've not got anything comparable for a McK&H frame.

Well, for a start, given that the box was new in 1904 then IMHO it is unlikely that the frame was made by Stevens & Son, more likely to be one of the other contractors used by the L&SWR to supply them to the Stevens design. For example, Woolston (1901) was Evans O'Donnell, whilst Corfe Mullen Jcn (1905) was McKenzie & Holland.

Lever 1 should be top half blue, bottom half brown, the others seem OK.

On levers 6, 22 and 23 the numbers and letters on the plates should be in black not white :-)

What I do not know (yet) is exactly when the SR changed from making L&SWR style cast brass LDPs to their cast-iron 'painted oval' style.

It is /possible/ that there was something of an overlap for a period, in that 'new sets' may have been made to the new style but 'odd extras' still done in the old style to match existing arrangements. For example, Blandford had quite a lot of replacement plates in the old style in 1930 (replaced in 1951 by a whole new set in the new style), whereas Templecombe No 2 Junction had a whole new set in the new style in 1932, yet Wincanton had a few 'odd replacements' in 1933 in the old style.

Photo evidence for Verwood shows that the 'pull plates' at least for levers 1 and 10 were 'old style', as also /appears/ to be the main plate for 10. If 11 had a new-style plate then one could speculate that perhaps it was deemed to difficult to get all the required info on an old-style plate?

>>>...30° for the brass LSWR plates seemed too laid back, but 22.5° appears to match the look of Alresford, and that has black background plates....

Another thorny subject :-) Most ex-L&SWR brass plates have a plain black blackground, but odd examples do survive which have the actual lever colour instead. Some of those are clearly original, others seen in private collections have clearly been repainted at some date to match the lever colour and it is unclear if they were like that originally or not.

7 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

If it does thanks that would be great as 'Signal Box Diagrams of the Great Western and Southern Railways' by GA Pryer has the layout and numbering, but not the positions. 

Which period are you modelling?

At West Moors levers 1, 12 and 22 were short-handled as they controlled power-worked items. There were no push-pull levers. Normally all levers would have been normal except for 24, which would have been reversed to allow the gates to be left across the rails. However as the photo shows 15 (the FPL) may well have been left over in readiness for the next train if it was following the same route as its predecessor.

>>>The lower plates are on a double lugged fitting that mounts them at an angle, and the angle was guessed at 10 degrees....

For the L&SWR-style cast brass plates the two pairs of lugs are of different lengths in order to give the angle. The angle between the lugs and the back of the plate is approx 60 degrees. If you hold a plate with the lugs horizontal then the holes in the fixing lugs are vertically above one another, but of course you also have to take into account the taper of the levers and whether or not it is truly vertical when normal.

With the (wider size) SR painted plates there is a small ramp cast along the inner side of the rear bracket at an angle of about 10 degrees to the back of the plate and this rests against the front edge of the lever to give the 'slope'.

In an attempt to (hopefully!) clarify my comments, photos are attached showing the rear of L&SWR and SR examples. Hopefully the 'ramp' in the latter is obvious...:-)

Lever 6, as a GF release, would have been blue in L&SWR days or blue/brown in SR days - you can just make it out as two-tone in photos. It is more questionable as to what was done with lever 11....

Don't forget the upper 'pull plates' needed on some of the levers :-)

Given that Ropley box was closed in 1931 and the loop abolished, I would hazard a guess that all  the main running signals were still LQ arms at the time and the shunt signals were probably still the Stevens 'drop flap' type, but a more detailed study of old photos might clarify that.

Well, quite some while before preservation then, as by BR days it had no signals at all :-)

9 hours ago, Trainshed Terry said:

Which region are you modelling, and the location that you are modelling. 

 

Terry.  

Looks like he is doing Ropley :-)

I remember the prototypes...:-)

4 hours ago, roundhouse said:

After seeing one of my photos taken in 2019 at Woody Bay, I may have copied this. Not saying that they have got it right especially as the line didn't have rail built signal posts before it closed as far as I can recall.

 

 

Oh yes it did, there were several, tho' mostly at WB :-)

See here for more details.....www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/minor/lb-signals.html#register

It's only from looking at the exhibition photos that I've realised just how l-o-n-g the storage loops are compared with the actual trains!  Plenty of scope to have both pre- and post- 1923 versions of the same coach rakes.....:-)

6 minutes ago, Steve Smith said:

Hi Duncan,

That's not a daft question at all!  The answer is - how many levers and in what positions?  I'm working up to a more comprehensive test print and can put whatever you ask for on that - it will take hardly any space up on the build plate - so not much to lose. 

There are no plates on the levers at the moment - which style of plates do I need to try to add for West Moors?

Steve

West Moors in BR days had the SR style of plates (painted ovals), /probably/ a replacement set done i/c/w the war-time alterations, but one would need to check the SR's order books to confirm that.

What puzzles me is that the ground-signal 8PULL, which controlled such a move, appears to be 'on', but it is hard to tell from behind.

Given the way that both the footplate crew are looking, and judging also from the track of the steam, I would suggest that the engine is propelling the train...

I'm puzzled that you've painted the Up Home down rod white (can't see the on on the Down Starting), as I would have expected them to be black (or at least dark grey), as you have done with the Up Starting. Have you found a photo which shows otherwise perhaps?

I like the idea of the magnets for the 'moveable' figures, would never have thought of that myself :-) But how do you spot the magnet locations when you are putting the figures in place?

On 12/06/2022 at 17:56, Stephen Freeman said:

Still in Exeter (Central)  I see, done that one in 7mm scale. Yes even the Ground Signals are lit.

It may be worth pointing out that, although the LH ground-signal (6) applied to the Down Through (the line to the left) - the same line as the main arm (34) - the RH ground-signal (18) applied t the line to the right (the Up Through) and therefore is not really anything to do with that main signal at all.

...and a ladder :-)

Is not the MSN South sign the same as the one which IIRC is now in the S&DRHT Museum at MSN station? If so, then I would speculate that indeed it is a WR repaint, and probably of a BR period replacement anyway in order to accommodate the addition of the 'South' suffix.

On 02/06/2022 at 11:29, The Stationmaster said:

C&P trailing crossovers retained for engineering use were quite a common feature on the SR which - for whatever reason - chose not to provide ground frames to work them.

 

But presumably at that time it was still connected to Sherborne Signal Box - not that that makes it right but I wonder when the siding was removed as it isn't mentioned in the 1969 Sectional Appendix.  Where was the double to single (towards Chard Jcn) line connection  at Sherborne?  In view of an incident which had occurred elsewhere on teh Wr I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least scotched and maybe even spiked as well?

On 02/06/2022 at 11:29, The Stationmaster said:

C&P trailing crossovers retained for engineering use were quite a common feature on the SR which - for whatever reason - chose not to provide ground frames to work them.

 

But presumably at that time it was still connected to Sherborne Signal Box - not that that makes it right but I wonder when the siding was removed as it isn't mentioned in the 1969 Sectional Appendix.  Where was the double to single (towards Chard Jcn) line connection  at Sherborne?  In view of an incident which had occurred elsewhere on teh Wr I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least scotched and maybe even spiked as well?

No. it wasn't - just a hand-point with the key to the padlock kept in the box ! It was on the reversible former Up line, hence it became facing to Down trains. The double-to-single connection was just a little bit further towards Yeovil.

At the same time, a siding was retained also for Eng Dept purposes at Gillingham. This too was hand-worked and C&P with key kept in the SB, but the difference was that it was a trailing point in the Down Loop. It was only later that it was converted to a facing connection worked from a local GF released from the SB.