Johnson044

Thank you, Corbs

Depends on how cruel you were feeling towards the passengers- a hairdrier probably kinder.

That's the Spurn Head railway btw!

Hando- I know geographically they are miles away but your Scillonian railways remind me so much of two Yorkshire lines- the Aberford Railway, which relied for the most part on some small MW saddle tanks (think they were class H, so a little bigger) - and used them for a regular passenger service- and I also wondered if, given their maritime climate and nautical history whether the islanders ever experimented with sail power? The Slaters F class has had mixed reviews- mainly, I think, connected with the original design, which had a Faulhaber motor and intricate gear train, which was prone to accumulating muck and difficult to assemble. I get the impression that the later kits, which will take a Branchlines motor and gearbox are much better. I got hold of a second hand one, part built, with the original motor / gearbox combo but I guess I got a good one as so far she's behaving herself.

The off the shelf designs can look startlingly different in a new livery- if history is re-written very slightly then a loco intended for one company could be bought by another because the company that placed the original order got into financial trouble. The Cambrian ordered a number of small 4-4-0's from Sharp Stewart but some went to the Furness -I've assumed that my own fictitious company got them instead- so here's a green one! Bought her very early stage part-built and a bit mangled. I kept the cab, chimney, footplate and much of the tender as a good starting point. The rest developed during the first lockdown. I must get her finished.

This is a really healthy debate and a very welcome distraction from all the s**t that's happening in daily life. Some good points Ian but not the whole story, I think. It's all down in the end to what we like and dislike. A couple of quick thoughts- Yes- loading gauge a big factor but it doesn't necessarily mean that some more variety in wheel arrangements in, for example, the Edwardian era, will stretch credibility. Just look at the "Prototype for everything" dept and it's quickly clear that reality is sometimes stranger than fiction. Some examples, just to kick the ball a bit- some cancelled exports: MSWJR- a couple of moguls and a single Fairlie built for overseas Barry Railway- some superb 0-8-0 tender locos intended for Norway Highland Railway- some 4-4-0 tank locos intended for overseas- I'm sure there are more. ...and from the 1890's, when there was a loco shortage: Port Talbot Railway- some bar framed American 0-8-2T and 0-6-2T Midland, GNR and GCR all had some moguls Generally the imported locos and cancelled exports were from or for lands where undulating track and light axle loading were likely, hence the wheel arrangements. So- maybe a few more cancelled orders or some more imports into our freelance world? As for the air-braked 2-10-2T- you're spot on- years ago I saw a brass one in American 0 gauge in a model shop in a Leeds arcade and I was very tempted- but about £300 at the time, which was way, way out of my reach. I wanted to Anglicise it and run it on the reservoir builders' railway I was constructing, loosely based on the Nidd Valley.... would have looked rather fine in lined Metropolitan red with "Bradfield Corporation" on the tank - credibility stretched pretty thin, I think. It's all good fun.

A little progress on the 0-6-0. The tender tank now cleaned up and repaired and I've started on the loco's inner frames, which were etched a while back. Some parts have arrived, too. Model Engineers Laser are really good- if you have access to Cad of some kind they will cut out odd parts as one-off's very reasonably. The keeper plate sides are 1mm half hard brass and I really didn't think I'd be able to cut them out by hand with any degree of accuracy- MEL cut them out for about a fiver the pair- likewise the inner tender frames, which are a bit thicker and are a bit of an experiment. The Slater's axle ends will run in these and the outer frames and whitemetal axleboxes will be purely cosmetic. I want to try to avoid having a set of inside frames for the tender if I can but still be able to take the wheels and axles out easily.

...and the Maryport and Carlisle is a perfect precedent for a freelance company- big enough to fall into the secondary main line category, rather than that of light railway, with an idiosyncratic loco stud, some bought in from manufacturers and some built in the M&C workshops- all more or less unique.

This really set the cogwheels turning. There's definitely further potential here. Just at the close of the Nineteenth Century there was something of a locomotive famine and a number of American Moguls and some other types were imported into the UK- rather Anglicised in appearance. I wonder if an Anglicised 4-4-0 might not stretch credibility too far? Rivarossi did them in American 0 gauge, which is smaller than 7mm and they are fairly common in HO too, so could be adapted to suit British loading gauge in 7mm or 4mm. Re-boilered, a new cab, splashers and buffers? I think it was Dubs or Sharp Stewart built some typical American 4-4-0's for export and in an alternative world maybe the orders were cancelled and they found buyers in the UK? I wonder...

Thought I'd make a gentle start on the tender for the 0-6-0. I don't particularly enjoy making tenders so tend to force myself to make a start on the tender fairly early on otherwise I'll leave it to the end and it won't get done as I'll start another project. Here are the bits I've accumulated- actually I've a rear buffer beam, too, but this isn't shown. The upper works consist of a rather beautifully made Webb LNWR tank that came from ebay (it had a pair of diamond framed bogies and looked like someone had used it behind an American 4-4-0 - it probably looked about right!). I've removed the tool boxes, which can go on something else and the coal rails, and the footplate will be moved backwards so that a toolbox can go on the back next to the buffer beam like a Terrier. Hopefully the tender body will then start to look a little less like a product of Crewe or Wolverton. The wheels are Slaters 3'7" carriage wheels and I've put some brass tubing sleeves over the 1/8" axles to make them closer to scale diameter (the Slaters tender wheels have 3 / 16" axles and they always look a bit massive to me). The frames are from the etches that I had made and the axleboxes, brake standard and filler cap are from Laurie Griffin. I found a spare spectacle plate from a previous 4-4-0 project and I'll fit that with some angled stays to give the crew some weather protection when running in reverse. The brake hangers and shoes are brass ones from Alan Gibson- not sure what they were intended for but I think they'll fit. Some Nitromors on the tender body this evening hopefully.

I'm really enjoying this thread, which I find very refreshing and rather liberating. Thank you for helping me keep the Black Dog at bay. Made a start over the furtive season on a project that has sat in boxes for the last seven years or so. a small double-framed goods in 0 gauge, largely from accumulated bits, which dictate wheel size (old Slater's 4F tender wheels), wheelbase (Slater's Midland 1F coupling rods), boiler (SER Kits resin 01) plus odds and sods. Frames and other bits etched from Autocad artwork done during lunch breaks at work and etched by PPD of lochgilphead- who are BRILLIANT! A long way to go but I'm quite pleased with progress. I made the smokebox wrapper using a borrowed rivetting press. Must buy one when the boat comes in. Another long wait now as promised DIY jobs must take priority.

The Lima 4F is actually quite a useful starting point for a small 0-6-0 - the width is about right for 4mm but the overall proportions, being HO are not too far out for a small Furness / Cambrian or similar Sharp Stewart. I do like the raised firebox version that you've built. Maybe a similar raised firebox will work for the 4-4-0 as well. It still puzzles me why the 009 or 0/16.5 fraternity allow themselves so much more freedom than people who model the standard gauge. Narrow gauge freelance locos are very common but as soon as we get into the realm of 4' 8 1/2" we become so much more inhibited. By becoming your own CME you can re-write history as you see fit and no Midland, GW or LNWR expert can point out your wrong-doings.

Hi folks- I've really enjoyed this thread and find it hugely inspiring. I've found a copy of the MRC article, which I've scanned. I don't know if there was ever an article on the layout itself or what became of these wonderful models. The whole ethos of the article is one of scratchbuilding at minimal expens- but the end results are high in quality and pretty convincing. MRC_SIOG_Article.pdf

Thanks for the response Northroader- when I saw your loco I did think of the little Kirtley well tanks and whilst they are truly delightful I think your chosen prototype really interesting- and, as you say, less likely to be the subject of criticism- anything from Derby, Swindon or Crewe is so well documented. The NBR loco you illustrate seems very familiar- much the sort of thing that I hope to build, although I have considerable freedom, being CME of a completely freelance railway. My loco rather controlled by the Slaters 7'4" x 7'8" coupling rods, which dictate the wheelbase, so possibly a bit bigger than the Kirtley. The Rhymney had some quite big saddle tanks with double frames and 4'3" wheels- and I rather want to capture the ambience of one of these, albeit with a tender- a certain brutish solidity to them. I did look at having a raised firebox and longer chimney etc, which would certainly have been appropriate- and a bit Furness or Cambrian Sharpie in aspect- but seemed a bit effete somehow, so the chimney, dome and firebox front which I'd bought from Laurie Griffin will go on a Beyer Peacock single (one day) and I'm substituting the SER Kits 01 boiler, which I hope will give the feeling of massiveness that these beasts seem to have. Maybe one day some new build group will re-create a full sized double framed six coupled goods- it would fill a noticeable gap - apart from half a loco chassis in the Armley Mills museum they seem to be pretty much extinct!

Hi Northroader - just found your double framed 0-6-0. Any progress? Looks really good. I've had a very similar loco in gestation for ages- freelance but so, so similar. I had some old Slaters 4'3" tender wheels that needed a home and a set of parts has grown around them- nothing assembled yet but a large stack of parts including some frames, a resin boiler (SER Kits SER 01), LNWR tender body and all sorts of other odds and sods. What is your prototype? A double framed tender loco with such small wheels is something of a rarity- the Rhymney Railway had something pretty similar, I think- there are some drawings in the Mike Sharman Oakwood Press book of 7mm scale drawings of GWR 0-6-0's. It would be good to know how you are getting on with this- there are so many similarities!

This is a little mechanical jewel Sir Douglas! An imaginative and skillful piece of modelling. The photo of 13th September, showing the flywheel side just captures the look of one of these beasts. Really good stuff!

I think inside possibly more likely, looking at precedents- Sir Vincent and Sirapite both have very narrow cabs between the splashers- must be very claustrophobic but locomotive manufacturers were not always best known for ergonomics! There's a nice one in The Chronicles of Boulton's siding- two photo's, one from each side- of a Marshall loco, which has an inside cab. Geared locos made by firms that generally made traction engines- be they built as actual railway locomotives or convertibles- generally seem to follow road locomotive practice, with cab sheeting- however rudimentary- on the inside of the driving wheels. I don't know enough about these breeds to fully understand where all the gubbins are likely to be but somewhere there may be rods and linkages for injectors, sanding etc- so these will need to go inside or outside the sheeting. Personally, I think the inside arrangement with the fully symmetrical gear train cladding and splashers exposed and the curving handrail could be very elegant. Outside sheeting perfectly possible- but maybe a later rebuilding for ergonomic reasons rather than as the manufacturer intended? I love the project- the workmanship excellent and really looking forward to seeing the loco develop.

Inside, without a doubt! I'm sure the crew will grumble but so much more elegant.

Hi folks- please could the 3D printer owners have a look at this? The NHS seem to be accepting amateur-made 3D printed frames for face masks. They are desperately needed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JhUENVDW341R0P4NfHq-IdCD0jT9QGge7onhx-wTUY4/edit Not something I can do myself but might be worth a look? Thank you! Be safe!

Hi Killian- I've just seen your thread- as part of the building of the Odin replica, an excellent analysis of the loco was published- it's full of drawings- plans, sections and elevations and detailed drawings of most components. Here's a link which might be of help: http://www.glias.org.uk/books/216books.html The book is ‘The Odin Project: Design and Construction of Denmark's First Locomotive’, by Michael R Bailey and John P Glithero ISBN 87-982227-7-5. Available from PO Box 421, 15 Mill Gardens, Elmswell, Bury St Edmunds IP30 9DQ. £25 + 4.10p&p (cheques to The Danish Railway Museum) The Danish railway museum at Odense had a stack of them going for 20DKK when I went last year (about £2.50) and you could probably get a copy from the museum- but the postage will be expensive. If you're stuck I could photocopy my copy and send it to you at cost. John