kipford

90% of my posts to date have concerned Brighton East the EM layout built by my son and myself using EMU’s etc around the year 2000. However my first love will always be kettles and for the last 20 years I have been involved with building the SHMRC’s EM pre-grouping Joint LNWR/GWR Shrewsbury to Hereford line layout called Hope under Dinmore, see layout of the month in Railway Modeller, October 2013. About 10 years ago I came across the LNWR 4.0’ shunting engine and its sister the crane engine. The crane engine was used to unload wagons in places that did not have yard crane available. I especially like quirky locomotives and rolling stock and the crane engine really fits the bill. So I started to gather information to scratch build one for Hope. Fast forward 10 years and I had got involved in other projects and the crane tank had languished. However as work runs down on Brighton I needed a new lunchtime challenge and thoughts turned again to producing a crane tank for Hope. To cut a long story short, discussion with fellow club member Dave Bridges, our guru of all things LNWR and John Redrup and Jol Wilkinson of London Road Models has resulted in me going away to design two kits. One for the crane tank and one for the shunting engine which if they prove up to the job will go into the LRM range of kits. Already John and Jol have provided a lot background help to help the project along. As this is my first loco kit (I have scratch built an R1 tank and most of the buildings on Brighton are effectively kits), I thought RMwebbers may be interested in the trials and tribulations of a first loco kit. So what weird and wonderful locos are we looking at: Crane Tank: Shunting Engine: Variants, there are number of basic variants that will need to be catered for: Crane Tank: 1. Wooden and metal brake shoes 2. Long and short jib 3. Small spectacle plate and large spectacle plate with cab roof. 4. Multitudes of different buffers! Shunting Engine: 1. Wooden and metal brake shoes 2. Small spectacle plate and large spectacle plate with cab roof. 3. Multitudes of different buffers! Initial discussions with Jol (LNWRmodeller on this parish) suggest we will end up with a mixed media kit. Etched brass/NS for the chassis cab sides etc, Milky Bar resin casting for the boiler, lost wax castings for the fiddly bits. Progress to date. I am starting with the crane tank, on the basis the shunting engine is relatively small modification (chop off the back!!!). first step is to create a CAD model of the complete engine. This is not the kit but takes into account some aspects of material thickness, wire size, allowance for gauge, compensation, motor/gearbox combinations. This model is probably about 80% complete, the basic shape is established and I am now adding detail. Once model is complete it will be used as a template to break the model into its constituent kit components, I effectively remodel it again. This is a technique I found very effective on my Brighton Layout, although it does add extra design time. Motor/Gearbox combination has been decided and either an LRM or Highlevel gearbox with a Mashima 1220 motor and flywheel will fit. The chassis will have half etched slots to allow for hornblocks and compensation to suit the builders choice. I am though going to design the parts for rigid beam compensation and may include the parts in the etch. That will need to be discussed with LRM. Once the kit components are designed, my thoughts are at the moment to 3d print the cast resin and lost wax parts, then laser cut in plastic the metals bits and assemble it as an engineering prototype to try and eliminate as many problems as possible before we commit to etches etc. Final picture is a couple of orthogonal views against the weights drawing I used to establish the basic sizes. Updates will come when there is something more interesting to show.

Signals: With the Southampton Show in January rapidly approaching I thought I had better finish off sorting out the working signals. Ground signal for the yard exit and the gantry for the platform starters. The ground shunt signal is a CR Signals one. Good value,quick and easy to install, see the photo below. The platform signal is a much more complex affair. Based on a gantry at the end of one of the platforms at Waterloo (see next photo). I could have used two single post signals here, but preferred the look of a more complex gantry. The next picture is the CAD model, It was designed around using a scratch built brass gantry with 3D printed signal heads and theatre bodies fitted with LEDS. For DEMU I built a non-working gantry as a stop gap. The gantry, signal heads and theatre bodies were 3D printed, the lattice cross braces were laser cut from 0.5mm phenolic paper , Soldered brass wire handrail and plastic ladders fitted, see photo below (the plastic extension was a dimensional Cӣ$K up on my part hastily rectified at DEMU. With the success of the 3D printed version and being inherently lazy, A working 3D version seemed appropriate. I decided not to make up my own signal heads and theatre bodies, instead splashing the cash on again CR Signals 3 aspect signal heads and two working theatre indicators from Absolute Aspects. The 3D printed version for DEMU was a bit chunky so I thinned out the sections as far as I dared without compromising the structural integrity (big hand breaking it). The printed gantry frame is shown in the above photo. Spot the problem, the thinning out of the sections is resulting in warping which requires the use of brass section to keep it straight, this was also compromising the amount of space available to run the wiring and still looked a bit chunky in section. So I bit the bullet and went back to basically what I originally planned. The next photo, where I am to date shows the scratch built gantry frame, I think the ability to use thinner brass section and the inherently better surface finish makes a much nicer product. Plus it will be much more Dave proof. The gantry lattice will still be laser cut though. More photos as it progresses. One more picture totally off topic. Another project I am working on Р4mm scale LNWR crane tank and shunting engine. These will multi-media kits (etched brass, resin casting, brass castings etc). It will be subject to a separate thread when I get a bit more

At 3 miles from the West Sussex border and owning a Brighton based layout am I allowed to be an honorary member?

I ended up making some laser cut form and assembly jigs from mdf. This allowed the parts to be soldered without worrying about heatloss.

Those benches are very interesting to build, they test your patience.

Pete The Connex Thumper is gorgeous. Like you we pushed the boat a bit to include one. Its even better when you put a sound chip in, repaint the roof and add a little subtle weathering!

Mike separate pm on it way. An interloper appeared on Brighton today. The Craftsman T1 in the photo was my first etched loco kit and has been squirreled away for a few years now after being part of the loco roster for Peter Bailey's Otterbridge. I thought it should see the light of day again and after being chipped duely duely made its debut.

First non Brighton Buddlea for delivery to Maggie and Alan of Warren Lane at the SHMRC show tomorrow. Mrs Kipford has been busy.

Pete Brighton East is totally fictional in layout just aiming like you to give an impression of the area and the period. Your layout is 100 x better than some others I have seen at shows and I would love to seeuite it at our own club show (quick plug for the SHMRC Exhibition in Portsmouth this Saturday). It would equally hold its own at DEMU. Try a small local show to see if you like exhibiting, you never know, The only thing I would suggest even for home use is to frame the layout and use a decent lighting rig it makes a huge difference even at home. Brighton is always opperated with lights on,

Nice work as usual Jason, ps Are you going to repaint ALL your white windows!!!!!!!! (BRM letters page).

Graham look at this site. All you need to know about third rail http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/3rd-4th.html

Pete Excellent we seem to be following the same design philosophy! Brighton was designed first and foremost as a layout that was going to be interesting to operate and from the limited exhibition running we have done it seems to fulfil that aim over a complete weekend. Interestingly it runs at its best with two operators, one on the passenger lines, the second on the yard. Like you we are limited in fiddle yard space (1050mm) which allows a maximum of a 3 car unit, that's why we have two '3' VEPS, (We were assured by people who knows these things that a 3 VEP did actually run). However where we do differ is in the use of cassettes and the flexibility it gives with the amount of stock that can be run. The other major benefit is that you can easily store complete trains in stock boxes on the individual cassettes. We use three sizes, long ones at 1000 mm for the 3 car units, medium ones 700 mm long for 2 car units and goods stock, then short ones 300 mm long for the locomotives and Caroline. In your case it may be worth considering changing one or two of the fixed roads into a cassette to increase the operating flexibility. Before the end fiddle yard board was added, Brighton was run with two cassettes in roughly the same position that your FY is in. The reason for adding the extra board though was we operate from the front, the layout is housed against a wall at home so getting around the back of the layout proved to be challenging and the extra board gave extra storage space. Keep up the good work. Do you intend to exhibit?

Pete Just realised (because I looked a bit more closely) that your track plan is not dissimilar to that on Brighton East? You obviously have good taste!!!!!!

Pete Reference the colour of the third rail. Photo below was taken at Havant back in February, it shows the rail is basically the same oily/greasy colour all over ( visible with the naked eye). Unused third rail though is very rusty all over, see edge of second photo taken at Chichester. On Brighton like you I chemically blackened the third rail, then sprayed them with Pheonix Precision track colour (oily leaks). I also paint the insulators the same colour.

I am with Pete, paint and weather track first, then ballast, tidy the whole lot up.

Pete Nice to see another 3rd rail layout join the club. Looking promising. I am also a LED on top person, it the most logical. I also mark mine master and slave for the uninitiated.

Simon As mentioned earlier the protoype for the location was based on the gantry at the western end of the tunnel leading to Southampton Central station. I checked the position for the Brighton gantry in line with the guide lines in the railway standards and with a bit of artistic licence it is just about correct. I agree the points are bit close to gantry and I thought long and hard about the position, but hey the whole layout is a compromise and I liked the idea of a gantry.

Jason, good to meet you again at EXPO. Have just managed to find time to read BRM. The layout looks great, I still cannot believe you scratch built all those houses that quick!

New addition to the fleet. One of Great Sheffords tampers. Its been built since Christmas (it was the first production unit built to proof the assembly instructions). It 99.9% there. Some weathering need but more important the photographs have shown up a fit problem with the cab roofs I did not notice. It will be fixed though! Also the Thumper got a Lego Biffoman sound chip which is awesome.

99.9% there. the photos have thrown up a fit problem with the cab roofs so please excuse, It will be sorted!!!!!!! Really nice to build.

Mike To a certain extent it was because I can. Also at the time I was originally planning the signals it was the change over period from Roger Murray and theree was no detail around on what was available pricing etc. The platform signals and the shunt ones will be operational. The ground signals will be proprietry and I am coming around to using propretry heads on my own gantry for the signal, if only because I am liable to run out of time before the next outing at Southampton in January.

Tom Both the signal head and theatre indicator were printed in FUD.

The tunnel signal is complete and planted. The position and design was based on the signal at the western exit of the tunnel to Southampton Central, then using the RGS documents on position and visiblity requirements as a guide. Its position is still not completely legal but the yard entry prevents me from doing anything else. Because of its position the signal is non operational (phew!). The gantry itself is scratch built from evergreen strip. The ladder is mix of an MSE ladder and with the safety cage built from brass strip. The signal heads and theatre indicators are 3D prints I had done by Shapeways a couple of years ago, they were designed to have LED's fitted and I have enough spares for the Platform signals which will be operational and are next on the build list. First photos are of the signal heads and Theatre Indicators as recieved from Shapeways, not fettled, just given a quick coat of primer so they photograph. Second two are of the finished gantry. The signal reference number we know would be Three Bridges, but the number is made up. Finally planted on the layout.

Jason Been catching up on your thread, as usual terrific modelling. It gets my Southern steam layout juices running again. By the way I am at EXPO EM North with Hope-Under-Dinmore, come along and say hello and we can discuss your methods for doing rust! Andy P are you going to EXPO or are you doing the dirty and going to RMweb Live ?