Broadway Clive

Next batch due in November according to latest update from Hattons.

The one way road might work, the arch kits are good, can be hard to cut a perfect curve because the card is quite thick. I use 2mm grey board from hobby craft and a glass cutting board, the underside of the arches are just coloured with a pen as the supplied brick strip is too thin.

You really need access to the artwork to enable you to modify things to suit you. When its protected on a PDF maybe a screen grab could copy it to your preferred art programme. Otherwise you can just print more arches to cut strips.

At last, the missing link for those of us interested in the classic postwar period of London Transport's Railways could be filled by Radley Models. The sleet locomotives (ESL100-117) were built between 1938 and 1941 from 1903/4 vintage Central London Railway motor cars and then most lasted another 40 years! They were allocated to most lines with open sections to enable de icing fluid to be applied when freezing temperatures were predicted, and for clearing snow and ice already lying on conductor rails. During the winter months night crews were rostered to take them to the outlying branches when the weather dictated, whilst during the day they might be moved within the depot to be refilled with fluid from a storage tank or be loaded with drums of it. During the rest of the year they rarely moved except for being made available for crew training purposes on Sundays during the autumn, when we would usually move one back and forth from where it was stabled after being shown over and around it.

Just got these flyers in the post today from R Parker. Good to see some new 'old' stuff in 4mm scale at last as OD have got a bit too modern for the poor postwar people who inhabit my layouts!

"Memories of Hull" is a nostalgic book full of photos showing life in Hull during the first two decades after WW2. Apart from some dock scenes, railways dont feature too much, but this charming picture links them with a local cinema and provided inspiration for redecorating a Classix NCB electric van!

Some years ago I bought a cd of over 500 photos of early postwar Hull, and a handful have glimpses of railway  - this one actually features a K3 and is one of three showing this particular level crossing from different angles. No doubt someone will know exactly where in Hull it is!

The photo of Esso B tanks at Hessle Haven reminds me to ask about what other rail tanks would be working to and from Saltend prior to 1963. I have a marvellous book on the history of that site, called "Molasses to Acid", part of my collection since the early nineties when Mike's Illustrated History of Hull's Railways convinced me my new loft layout must be based there! The Distillers Company Limited (DCL) is featured in the Saltend book but all I can see with a magnifier from a distant view of rail tanks on their site is 'No.203' on the end of the nearest one. A better rail picture is this one, captioned 'Shell-Mex 'B' site: incoming rail yards', and the presence of silver A tanks here surprised me.

Yes a tricky one. If I remember with my metal T stock I super glued the flat glazing in place but with only a tiny dab here and there so it doesn't mist up. I may try the glue and glaze stuff.

 

I'll let you know soon when I do it.

Deluxe Materials Glue 'n' Glaze is quite expensive, and 50ml comes in a flattened bottle 7cms tall (not counting applicator cap). Their R/C Modellers craft glue is much cheaper and comes in a 112g 10cms tall cylindrical bottle. Its stated purpose is for aircraft canopies and windows and being able to withstand take-off and landing shocks. I bought both ten years ago and the only difference I can discern is that the G n G has a narrow spout to poke into places and be linked to some tubing extensions. I bought all that and wasted my money! All I now use is their large R/C Modellers glue - applied with a cocktail stick or pin for both windows and any other parts where I need a PVA glue. Its also possible to make small windows from it as with the Krystal Klear, though I dont like the "thick specs" effect!

Hopefully there will be some way of securing to an existing turntable, maybe by drilling holes and bolting. That would enable it to compete with the existing motorising kits. I use the ancient motor and transparent plastic gear box advertised for decades in RM - very noisy and reliant on sight for alignment. I'm wondering if the 8 exit positions are fixed or adjustable, and is this in addition to a complete (reverse) turn? Otherwise just 4 positions might count as 8 exits! 

I would welcome a Class 11 model................ but it would end up as:-

.

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p57769627/h1A7B11B7#h1a7b11b7

.

 

Thanks, great stuff! I've just added a comment to Brian McDermott's 2015 wish list topic suggesting that the poll should combine class 11, 12 and 15101-7 as being based on the same 1944 UK standard design. It should be possible to make all varieties from the same basic tools.

Class 11, different size wheels, lower running plate, different shaped cab, different engine room doors, different hand rail rails, different radiator fillers, different lights and some other minor details. More differences than between a Saint class 4-6-0 and a Grange class 4-6-0. The only class of over 100 diesel locomotives that has never been available in R-T-R or kit form.

 

Class 12, (SR version of class 11) Same sized wheels as a 08, but they were Bulleid-Firth-Brown design, like found on a Q1 or a Spam Can. Running plate same height as a 08, everything else is like a class 11.

 

Edit, forgot to say that the battery boxes were longer on class 11 and 12 and they did not have vacuum brake exhauster boxes, in fact they did not have any train brakes. There were also 6 WR built 350s that looked just like the class 11, never had a TOPS number. In later years these had another variation on the lights and conduit.

The class 11 was available for a while as a kit from Judith Edge. I contacted them a few months ago and there seems no intention to re-run it at the moment. I would very much like to see a RTR version as they were widespread on Midland, Eastern and North Eastern regions during the 50s/60s, often as the forerunners to the 08s which were being built later. I followed an earlier topic on the subject of converting an 08 to a class 11 and was surprised to discover how it is really not possible, so maybe it would be worth some of us forming a group to promote it as a wish list candidate in the future. For several years it wasn't even on the MREmag list, but with Clive Mortimores inspired observations on the class 12, there could be even more going for a RTR class 11 if only we got the word about so people understood how different and widespread they were.     

That looks really splendid, you've done a great job there. Will these replace all of Phil's present range of loco hauled coaches? 

I got mine yesterday from Hattons, but can't help but notice that the name plate on both sides are not on straight, and it's pretty noticeable, even when it was in the box.

 

What do people think? Is it worth returning it or am I complaining about nothing?

I phoned Hattons about a missing shoe today. I didnt mention a nameplate has fallen off too! The plates are only glued to the vertical ribs, so although a nuisance I would follow Matabiau and pull them off gently then refix. Not worth the hassle of packing and posting then waiting for Hattons to get new stock in. Hattons have advised I contact Peters Spares or Howes, who may both have the spare detail I require (I didnt want the returns hassle either).

About 15 years ago I bought some floppy discs for a system called Wagonflow that required a complete list of wagons and locations which would then be given destinations according to factors like the day of the week. For many layouts this would be ideal, but as usual mine needed something different. My Springcoates loft layout is based on freight yards in Hull and there are about 250 wagons and mostly they dont actually go to different locations but eventually end up in the same fiddle yards where I cant even read the small wagon numbers, let alone sort them before they're back to Hull again!

So I made an Excel spreadsheet that worked by producing random numbers and applying them to the frequency figures I wrote in for each possible destination for each wagon type and load. Operations commenced with my recording simple codes for the wagons already in a train, the type in one column and any visible load in the next. For example an open wagon was 'o', and would be taken as empty unless a load was entered, eg.  'cd' for cable drums. Once all wagons in the train were recorded in order, then pressing the 'F9' key would calculate the destinations.

I also put a lot of effort into changing wagon numbers so that the last three digits were unique, and though this was never completed, it meant that in practise those would suffice. But I hoped to avoid having to read the tiny numbers by relying on the order of wagons in a train. Having only a computer downstairs at that time meant that a handwritten train list had to be taken down from the loft for entering, and the impressive printed list with destinations and loads taken back again. Off went the trains from outward yard to the fiddle yards, and next day the first came back into the inward yard for sorting. I readily recognised which one it was from the consist, but half way through shunting the wagons into different sidings according to their destinations, things seemed to be wrong, and then I realised the trip had involved crossing a reverse loop, and so the wagons were in the reverse order! I didnt have enough sidings for all the destinations either, so some had to share, and that might eventually mean reading the tiny numbers - not even possible when obscured behind other trains. So with my passion for shunting diminished, mixed goods became infrequent for the next decade, but now with my old XP PC in the loft maybe I'll try again to do something about those wagons that rarely move. Thanks for reminding me about it !

A very enjoyable thread Clive. A great location for a layout and an interesting subject for which I share your pain!

In the mid sixties I once got left behind in Leeds on the first day of a two day shed bashing trip to the North East because I was still writing down DMU numbers in Neville Hill depot. The guy sitting next to me on the coach never reported me missing till later (maybe glad to get rid of me!), but I got a refund afterwards.

I really like what you are doing with them. I bought a couple of white metal fronts for 104s from Chris Leigh over 20 years ago but other things intervened and I now have a 4 car on order from Silver Fox. On the subject of drivers, I seem to remember some pulling down blinds when it got dark, much as bus drivers did. On my Hull based layout, passenger trains pass either side of the freight yards and I cant say i've noticed the lack of people, so I think it very much depends on the particular layout. With depot and sidings as the focal point I would find a driver always peering out from a stabled DMU rather eery. I do find train passengers problematic on exhibition layouts as one can often recognise them easier than one could a particular carriage without reading the number (here are those school kids again!), so the illusion of many trains is shattered. Ideally I feel that less direct light, sombre interiors, and platform obstructions are best combined to obscure a clear view of the interior. Details inside like luggage racks will only draw the eye in, and for the same reason passengers might be better to be drab and slightly "weathered" as if in shadow, with no eyes staring out of windows to attract attention. I've recently started a new London Transport layout and am keeping the trains empty as the combination of passengers and doors that dont open at the station would ring alarm bells in my brain!

 

 

 

I did a lot of research for Heljan on the 05 histories and came up with the following on the two departmental locos.

Two locos, D2512 in February 1961, and D2615 in January 1964, where transferred into Departmental stock as Departmental No 88 and 89 respectively.

Is D2512 a typo Paul? Think it should be D2612.

Over 25 years I've built a layout inspired by the goods yards in Hull circa 1960, and have acquired possibly all of the relevant books and magazines in the process. Unfortunately I never visited the area till 1966/7 so my own spotting notes cant help, but I'm keen to learn more about visiting locos during the 1959-62 period. That is so that I can include some on my layout in a realistic way relative to how frequent they were in real life. The idea is be able to add some interest without making every session a red letter day!

If anyone does have some notes they can scan or message then I'll be very grateful.  

Theres a new 1/43 scale RT bus been released by Hachette in France. Excellant model priced about £20. Pictures on EFE Zone website under "News", then page down to 4th March. Watch Radley Models later in the year for kits of K class London trolleybus, Leyland Cub breakdown tender, box van and coal lorry.

Yes I can see that stretcher bar in particular must be very fiddly. Are they handrail knobs fixed to it? Always wondered, are you able to get parts replicated at this stage so as to ease the completion of the patterns?

That should be easy to model, any idea how long the piece of current rail was?

Thinking more about it Phil, I would guess it must have been on the opposite side of the track to the live rail and no longer than necessary - say 10 feet? One of my friends reckons to have some old track plans for Leyton stored away so if he digs them out there might be some more information there and if so I'll pass it on.

Does anyone know what was done at Leytonstone eastbound if anything to stop goods trains being sent down the tunnel to Wansted?

My old LT friends have reminded me that the protection at Leyton, Leytonstone and Newbury Park was by electfric train detectors, consisting of an isolated piece of current rail that had to be touched by a train's positive shoe before the starter signal could be cleared for the tunnel. (Both v+ shoes are connected on each car so the section of rail when touched by a shoe would become live to trigger the release).     

It is an interesting question whether mercury-filled tubes were provided at Finchley Central. I don't remember them there but that doesn't meant that they weren't provided.

 

However, apart from advising the Electrical Control Room Supervisor that disaster was about to happen, I can't see that they would have been of any use there in keeping main-line loading gauge trains out of the tube tunnels since the "big" trains would have been steam, or later diesel, hauled. The provision of the mercury-filled tubes elsewhere, Barons Court for example, had the purpose of keeping LT surface-stock trains out of the tube tunnels and they did it by cutting off the traction supply if they were broken by the passage of an out-of-gauge train.

Not quite right Brian, the mercury tubes here were at East Finchley and cut power to signals so they all 'failed' safe to red with train stops raised. You couldnt stop even an electric train by turning off traction current as drivers were taught to coast to the next station if power was lost. Below is from London's Underground by H F Howson. Of course BR  locos were meant to have trip cocks fitted to work over LT, and there were trip cock testers at the various entry points to ensure it was down and to gauge. However, I've read a number of accounts from steam loco crew that it was often left isolated and non operative, oweing to the difficulty for firemen of going onto the track to reset it inside tunnels. Of course, drivers of LT trains were provided with a trip reset cord which came right up near the front door. Still in practise the red signals should suffice with two men in the cab!

My good friend Jim Buckland worked for a while as a signal "cabin boy" at Finchley Central in 1962 and remembers freight to Mill Hill East and Edgware (BR) sometimes containing one or two Fyffes bannana vans and wagons carrying military vehicles as well as the usual coal wagons that were the main traffic for both the Edgware and High Barnet branches. BR steam as well as diesel were used, and the coal trains, lasted a bit longer than planned due to winter snow lying in the coal yards till the spring of 1963.

I must say I'm not too convinced about the prevelance of grey roofs other than on D8400 when it was brand new. I'd also take issue with the leaflet that comes with the model when it claims they were all delivered to Devons Road Bow. According to Irwell's "Diesel Depots - the early years" that depot's diesel conversion commenced in 1957 and was to include 25 type 1 locos of which ten would be 800hp (ie class 15 or 16 in TOPs language). However, D8400 (the first class 16) was not built till July 1958 and would still be on test in Scotland in August 1958 when Devon Road's last steam loco had departed, so they were obviously not involved at that time.  My understanding is that class 15 locos D8200-9 were the ten 800hp locos at the depot, and the December 1959 allocation list actually shows them in the process of being replaced by more of the 1000hp class 20s that would eventually become the sole type 1 loco at the depot.