whart57

Where is Love? - from the musical Oliver, composer Lionel Bart

On the Southern making steam more efficient was a lower priority than replacing it altogether.

Scope for modernising general freight engines was limited by what was hanging onto the back of them, the long string of unfitted four wheelers each carrying ten tons or so. The lack of braking power limited both speeds and length of train so in most cases a locomotive with just a few tweaks on a thirty year old design would do in the Edwardian period as far as a general freight engine was concerned. The main advances in design on the Southern's constituents were with the bigger locomotives and with remote control. Auto-trains that didn't require the loco running round and thus could do more runs along suburban branches were the main area for development.

The Wainwright C was not really "modern" either, it was just a slightly bigger LCDR B2. The main difference between the O1 and the O it was made from was the Stirling family fetish about domeless boilers. Once Stirling retired that feature was never going to be retained when his locos came to needing new boilers. "Modern" freight for the SECR would have been locos Ashford sketched out but never got permission to build, namely an 0-8-0 and an 0-6-2T. The latter would have been particularly useful on all the local freight runs in SE London, but with so many older 0-6-0s available and crews accepting the discomforts of tender-first running the business case wasn't there. But to come back to imaginary locos, what about a tank engine variant of the Fowler 4F, an 0-6-2T 4F?

Well early 20th century reboilering, the O1s were hardly "modernised". I stand to be corrected but I think the last O1s were kept by BR(S) solely for the EKR stub to Tilmanstone Colliery as newer 0-6-0s were too heavy. Your point about the SR inheriting some relatively modern locos in 1923 could be applied to the large number of Hs and M7s that were the mainstay of branchline passenger services until electrification/dieselisation/closure.

Nobody does it better - Carly Simon

Thus resulting in the Bluebell Railway having a nineteenth century Stirling 0-6-0 on their books. In the context of this discussion though, those "old crocks" on the Southern were the 0-6-0 goods engines, the type of engine I suggested would be the lowest priority in the replacement schedule

The question "what's it for?" could usefully have been applied to Riddles' BR standards. I fully understand why new steam locomotives were required in the late 1940s, even the Dutch who had all but electrified everything before the war bought dozens. So the Pacifics, the various Class 4s and 5s, the 9F - all those had a clear function to perform. The small ones though, the 2MTs, what were they for? Plenty of pre-war locos to do that job for ten years before diesels are available to take over. (Or Beeching to close the lines )

Heroes and Villains -- The Beach Boys

Surely the type of traffic for which you need a small goods locomotive is the least demanding on engines and in the context of 1946 the least important for which to acquire new locomotives. Patch the 40 year old 0-6-0s up for another ten years would surely be what the company executives would demand

I'm Gonna be a Country Girl Again -- Buffy Sainte-Marie

At a guess I would say that as a Pacific has a bogie on the front end it can move the rear pony truck back a bit and create more space for the fire grate without unbalancing the locomotive

Love me do. - the Beatles

I do I do I do -- ABBA

In terms of running qualities the 2-6-2 arrangement has a lot going for it, but the problem will always be fitting the axles round the firebox and grate area. Probably the more generous loading gauge of the US and Russia helped with that.

That's what I mean. The fact the firebox is much shorter below the footplate than it is above is what makes it look as if the rear axle goes through the ashpan. I'm inclined to say that this interesting attempt at a new class of loco demonstrates why 2-6-2 is a rare wheel arrangement for a tender locomotive. (Tank engines are different because you need to provide support to the coal bunker and prevent the end swinging out too much)

It looks like the rear driving axle goes through the fire grate too

There'll Always be an England -- Vera Lynn

Diamonds are Forever -- Shirley Bassey

Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend -- Marilyn Monroe

I thought that was by Mr Humphries ........

Interesting that in the week we mention the Whitstable oyster trade in this thread that we read of Southern Water's attempts to kill it off through letting raw sewage overflow the sluice at Swalecliffe. I wondered why I saw signs warning people not to eat shellfish from the beach at Hampton when I was there ten days ago.

Ireland is a separate state, and still a member of the EU. I wonder if that makes a difference.

Probably the sole contribution they can afford since Amazon bought the screening rights for this year and next.

Town gas was 50% hydrogen, so the issues of hydrogen leakage existed sixty years ago. Blending hydrogen with natural gas might be worth considering as a transition strategy