apollo 079

On 14/02/2021 at 00:20, adb968008 said:

From Derby Sulzers site, the full list is:

 

45008/19/22/6/41/56/102-9,12,4/21-2/34 and 45141

 

Bachmann must modelled 45022 / 41.

 

I chose 019 (image on previous page) and recommend 022 as a base for renumbers, as the plates are easy to remove.

 

For those without the grill 45046 is best bet, its just a set of printed letters and a TI crest.. removes almost on your finger nails, though its generally selling at rrp.

 

Note the numbers on a peak are larger than standard numbers, Ive not found a good rub on source, so just used railtec rub on standard transfers for now.

 

It cannot be 45008 for the reason I have stated and a 45/1 would require surgery to rrskin the area of the bodyside where the footsteps were, also the roof area would require some extra work. As has been noted before, no manufacturer has yet produced a correctly detailed class 45/1.

Kevin

13 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

It was also a poor choice of prototype, 45038 never had the 'trapezoid' grille on the lower body side.

Given the model they had, if they wanted to renumber it to an un-named 45/0 the options were severely restricted because of the lower bodyside grille and the sealed beams. The only options would have been 45019/26/56.  008 would be no good as it had central headcode boxes to its withdrawal.

Kevin

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi @deltic17,

 

Correct, the lenses will be corrected on the finished production models.

 

I said ábhar éacúiméineach a bheadh ansin.
 

Cheers!

 

Fean

or alternatively, "sea", if I remember correctly.

Kevin

11 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

No crest or it it hiding?

Roy

As I said before, 046 comes with backing plates but no crests. If you fit the back plates they will cover over the Tindley white rose emblems.

7 hours ago, 47423 said:

I have them all bar 46 which do, but as 46 has the painted Tinsley nameplate I had wondered. It's information for someone else who was interested, I said I would ask on here. 

Ok here goes, 022 comes with red backed nameplates, no backing etch as obviously LSA did not have crests. 040 comes with red backed 'plates, blue back panel but no crests. 041 comes with blue backed plated with blue backing panel but only one has a crest. O46 comes with blue backed 'plates plus backing panel but no crests. Finally 049 has red backed 'plates with blue backing panel and both crests.

Also of note 040 has no electrification flashes, 041, 046 and 049 have cab door handle back plates picked out in silver, the other two are blue. And of course 022 and 041 have the additional trapezoid grille below the long body grille, as per prototype.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

On 07/01/2021 at 18:13, owentherail said:

The one I'm remembering it to has ...... when I've found a pic of it on internet 

As a reminder from an earlier post of mine, all class 46s had the lower body panel replaced by a grille, as did 45008/19/22/6/41/56/102-9,12,4/21-2/34 and 45141. No peaks had the grille plated over, the lower bodyside grille was a modification.

Kevin 

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

And 2 different roofs for different boilers ... and a different body side without the boiler room grille... and different skirts on early batch ... and D830s different zorsts... plenty to go at there Mike! 
 

Would cost me a fortune in fabric bribes for SWMBO to bake all the millionaires shortbreads that would be needed....

Not forgetting D870 ZULU with the 'Whizzo style'  cab roof air horn cowlings ;)

Kevin

Hi all

I had a chat with one of the reps in the BCC members' club lounge yesterday.

There are two EPs  on display in the cases, the one shown above has the original trapezoid access panel below the long bodyside grille, which is correct for 45040/46/49.The other is identical except that it has the trapezoid grille in place of the panel, correct for 45022/41. Note that neither has the square moulding which was noted on an EP at a previous exhibition). Improvements noted include wire handrails on the noses (previously these were moulded), single-piece nose side grilles with hinges, a better representation of plated over footsteps (these appear to be moulded now rather than separate fittings), the rectangular access panel on one side is depicted by moulding rather than tampo printing and the holes above the bogie pivots on the bottom of the bodyside are correctly depicted as plated over. It was also confirmed that the loco will have working sealed beam marker lights and tail lights. This I believe covers all the improvements which were promised in a previous conversation with a one of his colleagues at DEMU. 

The plan for delivery has been moved back, so they are now looking at end of 2020 or possibly early 2021.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

1 minute ago, Welsh Signaller said:

I’m looking to build up a 20 or 25 take Iron ore rake, as has been said the orange ends are outers so only two per rake - what’s the best way to do this please ?

Sorry, that's not correct. The orange end; as Mark says above; indicated the end with a rotary coupling, so all of the inners and half of the outers were orange at one end. Also for obvious reasons the orange ends all faced the same way.

Kevin

Both sets are on the website now. Search Manufacturers, Cavalex and you will find them. Running numbers are:-

Pack A 910026/75/45

Pack B 910161/267/342.

Kevin

23 hours ago, 66738 said:

Agree but would prefer 022 to come with both printed and etched. Lytham St Anne’s was hand painted near the end of her career.

66738

As was 046. But Royal Fusilier's painted name was on a blue background (with Tinsley white rose in place of the regimental badge). The actual 'plates had a red background when they had been in place (when loco was blue with sealed beams).

Will Bachmann print the name on blue? I doubt it.

Kevin

E-mail from Oxford confirms it will be 12014 and 12030 (in ScotRail).

10 hours ago, Ian J. said:

OK, now a little fly in the oinkment - 45 119 had sealed beam lights and no HI light in 1985, but also had a plated-over trapezoid grill judging by pictures I can see online (https://hiveminer.com/Tags/45119%2Cpeak). So, is Heljan doing their 454xx series with a trapezoid grill or plated over?

Of the 45s so far announced by Heljan in the standard range, only 45106 had the trapezoid grilles fitted.

Locos with the grilles were (original numbers):-

D11/8/21/33/43/51/3/9/60/1/82/5/6/90/1/4/106/16/20/6

TOPS numbers:-

45008/19/22/6/41/56/102-9/12/4/21/2/34/41.

As far as is known, no other 45s ever carried trapezoid grilles. This was a modification (see above) which was made to all 56 class 46s and just the above 20 class 45s.

45119 is not in the above list, so the model should be a standard one with the original trapezoid access panel.

Kevin

Another typo now corrected. Is was of course 45134; not 143; which retained WR and LMR headboard brackets but not the horizontal handrails.

That is all for tonight.

22 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

I think the idea initially was to iron out the wiring, train heating and ventilation niggles and standardise the fleet, but progressively the scope was cut back to save money, no doubt informed by how the first locos were getting on. So first ventilation was deleted, then standardised headcode displays, then it was into dual braking, ETH conversion, nose corrosion removal, and then finally headlights.  BR invested in the class pretty heavily over the years. Here's a pic of D11 in 1970 - looks like an eary Derby refurb with the trapezoidal grille.

 

 

That's right, the later 45122 of course.

22 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

I've edited my post as it appears it wasn't Brush who did the early class 45 refurbs, but Derby Works, however the work scope changed in 1969 after about 20 locos.

Ok, edited my response to suit. My guess is the additional ventilation proved to be of  little or no benefit, so they cancelled the mod, which was what I suspected. Reminds me of the headcode box mods on a few late English 24s. Also done by Derby at around the same time...

15 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

Back at the main PC now, D154 was the first refurbished 46 at Brush in September 1965, the class were completed by May 1968.

 

Some of the class 45s were also refurbished at Brush, beginning in 1967, but I think only up to about 20 were completed before it was shelved, probably because the dual-braking programme started in 1969. I think all of these Brush refurbs had the trapezoidal grille and single centre headcodes. Some had plated over boiler grilles and some didn't, not sure why.

 

With the exception of D11, the split/door locos weren't dealt with until 1969, being dual-braked at Derby, with trapezoidal grilles plated over at the same time. D12-17 were treated in this period. I think D11 was one of the Brush refurbs, but a 1968 photo would confirm it...

 

 

 

That makes sense as only 20 class 45s received trapezoid grilles. Derby obviously decided the mod was not required so left the rest of the 45s as they were built. Quite a few 45s received single piece centre headcode boxes at Derby, including 45001/11/5/6/8/24/6, all early split box built machines.

3 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Not in all cases, for instance the 45's which were retro-fitted from split headcodes with doors to single piece headcodes did not receive the trapezoid grille.

 

45015 was one of them (I can mention that loco here right? It's not Preserved Diesels)

Yes, I think a few were done at Derby so they didn't receive grilles. Some mods at one end would be crash repairs, like no1 end of 44009. This seems to have been a whole new cab since it had shorter handrails at that end. But I digress.

57 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

Not sure about 46047, but 46049 missing from this list and that definitely did retain the handrails / brackets etc. 

 

Also worth noting is 45071, which in addition to retaining the handrails / brackets, was given smaller non-standard marker lights (more like those seen on disc fitted class 20's).

Sorry, typo, should be 46049, not 46047. Will correct. Also will add 45071 to the list. I was confused by a photo which was stated as 45071 but can't be because it has a trapezoid grille.

Kevin

2 hours ago, stovepipe said:

Yes that is right, part of the Brush refurbishment programme scope, from about 1965. The first examples turned out in GSYP and later in BFYE.

That's interesting, I have noticed that the 45s which received the trapezoid grille also had their headcode boxes modified to single piece, suggesting that Brush were most likely responsible for those as well. That explains a great deal.

One more thing to note. The modification of the headcode boxes of D138-173 seems to have been concurrent with the replacement of the trapezoid panels with grilles. At least I have found no photos of a Brush Peak with divided centre boxes and trapezoid grilles. Again, unless of course.....

Kevin

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Perhaps worth pointing out 45147 was an early withdrawal (1st 45/1 wdn) due to the crash/fire with an oil train at Weaste, by the motorway on 4th December 1984.

Yes, which is why it was the only 45/1 not to have a centre headlight fitted. I didn't mention that as I assumed everyone knew about that. Photos of the less damaged end of the loco show that the top headboard bracket (sometimes referred to as a lamp bracket) was still in place. As far as I know 147 was the only peak to run in that condition. Unless of course.....

Kevin

On 03/06/2019 at 19:24, Mophead45143 said:

 

So far on Bachmann cl. 45 models, the folding access panel has actually just been represented by printing, and not actually formed part of the moulding. If this is still the case, then a bit of t-cut will sort it out for a 46!

Interesting, it looks like only the blue split box 45s (45053/120) seem to have this printing. 45048 models did not and neither, surprisingly, did 45036. I would hope that the new 45s will include this feature either as a moulding or possibly as an etch.

Kevin

The following is a summary of class 45/46s which for one reason or another did not have the standard sealed beam fronts at withdrawal:-

45025/7/47/53/61 retained outside split headcode boxes to withdrawal

45032/5/6 retained twin centre headcode boxes to withdrawal

45008/18/24/67 and 46005/12/20/4/37/41 retained single centre headcode boxes to withdrawal

45043/71* and 46016/49 has sealed beam lights but retained handrails and both WR and LMR headboard brackets to withdrawal

45134 had sealed beam lights but retained the WR and LMR headboard brackets to withdrawal

45147 had sealed beam lights but retailed the LMR headboard brackets to withdrawal.

All class 45/1s except 45147 carried the central headlight before withdrawal, though 45109 was not in this condition very long before it became the second eth peak to be withdrawn.

* 45071 also had smaller than standard marker lights, also fitted to the bonnet end of 20228.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

The one piece headcode window on the late batch of Brushes (class 46) was slightly smaller than that of all the refurbished locos both Cromptons (class 45) and Brushes. Not all the refurbished Cromptons had the funny shaped little grille under the main grille.

To confirm, as I posted on the Bachmann thread last week, the 45s with grilles in the place of the original trapezoid shaped access panel were (TOPS numbers) 45008/19/22/26/41/56/102-9/12/4/21/2/34/41. All others retained the original access panel. Also all Brush machines (which became class 46) were built with the trapezoid access panels, but most if not all had the panels replaced with grilles in the 1960s, many whilst still GSYP. Certainly all 46s had trapezoid grilles at withdrawal.

Kevin