berth44

I was waiting on this, the 'official' BR spec is 'Sherwood Green',that's fair enough and I'm sorry for doubting the fact,I can't argue,nor will I attempt to, Sherwood it is....So I'm sorry Brian,I had my opinion, I'm wrong and I'm prepaired to admit to the world that I was wrong,sorry world, but I'm still going to go ahead with the 'yellow/green' Deltic style band as that is the only shade that my eyes can perceive, forget the stuff about 'light and shade' in this case,I've taken my model outside in the brightest of sunlight,the dullest of days and I still can't replicate any colour photo that I've seen of a Baby Deltic. So,if I'm the only one in the' world' with my Baby Deltic painted in this way,it's my choice,it'll be trully a very 'individual' model then??, I just wish that I had saw a real one!..will I paint it back when the 'Replica' hits the rails......no..............Dave

I've reduced the access door height to be inline with the windows,removed the warning panel and put in a new one same height as the window,I've also made it a wee bit dirtier!...Dave

OK,here we are Brian,perhaps these photos will explain just what I did...Dave

Wrong way round,maybe one day I'll get the hang of this!!...Dave

I've put together these two photos to compare,the first one is obviously a real Baby Deltic and the band is not Sherwood Green,well, it's not the Heljan version, there is quite a bit of difference I think..Dave

Hello Mr 'Baby Deltic' man,I'm not sure what 'cut'n'shut' means in Colchester,but it means nothing to me,never came accross the thing here in Aus-tral-ia!..... Anyhoo,only to glad to pass it on,and yes,there was a cut,a few infact! I have taken a couple of photos and I'll post them this afternoon when I get home from work,you should be up from bed in Colchester by then! It was quite easy,sort of..first,remove the frames from the bogies,remember what end the speedo goes,it's only on the one bogie, I almost forgot!. The frames are easily removed, turn 'baby' on her back and just prise them off the bogie with a small flat screwdriver, push from behind the pickups to get started,and then from the 'front', slide them off the pin thingies.....too easy! Now you have them off,cut the part at the rear of the frame to separate the sides, I cut mine in the centre, "phew", that was hard work! OK,now with some form of cutting device,or tool,cut off the 'female lugs' on the frames,all up 8 of them, I used a 'sprue cutter' to cut mine off,it 'squeezes' the ends in a bit,but that's not a problem . These 8 parts are now cut to the same size as the 'male' pins on the bogie and these,the 'females' are re-introduced back onto them..for the time being. Right,this is where I had to think,I had tried just glueing the things straight back onto the frames,but slightly lower down on the frame,this is what makes the bogies sit higher..if you gets me drift..but it didn't work! Nearly there? (not really!!).......OK then,thinking cap on,I just happened to have 'lying around' a length of Evergreen plastics 'angle', 2mm X 2mm What I did then was 'superglue'( just a tack) a length that measured the distance between the ' M&F' fittings that are attached (still) to the bogie. The angle is glued accross the top of the two parts,with the back of the 'angle' to face the frame (quite clear in the photo) This forms a 'wee bridge' that permanently joins these two parts (per side) Once enough time is given for these to 'set'.. 2 cups of coffee,just to be sure!, they are then prized off once more from the bogie and a wee bit more 'SG' is added just to be sure they stay together, more coffee........... Once these 4 wee bridges are completed ,individually they are glued to the frame, if you have made a good job cutting them from the bogie in the first place,you'll notice that there is a 'ledge' that will make fitting of these parts a doddle,just ensure you line up the thing with the existing cut marks where the 'lugs' used to be and glue the 'bridge' to the frame just a bit shy of being totally flush with the top of the frame. I then superglued each one onto the frame,let it dry....2 cups of coffee,then each frame is placed back onto the bogie as it had come off and walla,that should do exactly as per my photo above. Howz at?,it's as clear as mud,I know, the photo will show the way.."a picture paints a thousand words"....Dave P/S,just ensure that all is square when you glue up, by using the bogie 'cross members' as a guide,otherwise your frames will be wonky. To make things easier while handling, if you can remove the steps and the cylinders atop the frames this will ensure that you do not break them................good luck! PPS if you are going 'P4' it might be wise to add another 1mm 'spacer' to each bridge,then glue these to the bogie. I think my bogies might be a wee bit narrower than as per the 'original' as I had to cut off about 2-3 mm from the rear 'cross member' of the bogie,this is not noticed and as you can see my my photo,it looks fine.

Hello Brian, I'm afraid I still don't agree! (I also asked a 'non interested party' to confirm to me that the colours were indeed 'not the same) Most of the 'slide show' that you have confidently posted show these locos in a heavy weathered condition and even condemmed. I have a book called 'Green Diesel Days' it has a solitary photograph of D5900 just fresh from refurbishment,beautifully clean, and the lower band is positively and definately 'yellow/green' as per her big brother Deltics (and WR Hymecs) A combination of dirt and light conditions might show the loco appear to have the SG lower band Brian,but I'm sticking to my guns and repainting... as per the 'Deltics' (I'm also a believer that the way the loco was painted and its 'Deltic' engine gave rise to the 'Baby Deltic' name) I believe that the 'Brush Type 4' had it's 'waste band' painted in Sherwood Green,as did the class later class 25 locos, 'Claytons' and there were a 'few' other classes with 'SG' cabs',and this colour in all sorts of conditions did not appear to be anything like the Deltic's green/Yellow..but the 'Baby D did!! Anyhoo, I've given my 2 bobs worth on the colour Brian,I reckon we are all entitled to our opinions and how we see things,obviously our opions on this subject are way different,and I'm sure there will be many out there telling me where to go,that is fair, but I am me,(and it's the Scottish in me),the paint is ordered and the air brush is cleaned and on 'stand by!! l thank you Brian in any case for the photo's, it's the most I've seen of the class in one hit and they will come in handy for 'detailing' One thing is for sure,with so many photos, they definately show up the 'wrongs' of this model...I didn't want to believe what was written in an earlier post, this described in all the 'grizzly detail' what is wrong (with this model),and after an 'in depth' look last night,'with the peepers'..here's just.one example, the relation between the side windows and the lowest one on the 'nose' puts either the side windows too low or the nose too high.... I say' ######', the post is right!! I thought a 'fix' would be to file the side window and , make it larger,but that wont work as it'll make the window wrong in relation to the door and roof cant,so that's 'oot the windy'...so to speak!! What I think 'might work',if the 'overhead 'warning flash' (amidships)is removed and a new one added to be either flush with the window,or 'half flush' with the same and access 'door' between the 'engine room' windows is brought into line with the top of these windows, it just might 'throw' the all seeing eye into thinking all is OK, but I'm thinking I could mark my nice new shiny body if I did that,but I think I will do it anyway!!. Unfortunately, I now say that the underframe and bogies are the best part of this loco,Heljan have used a blind man on some of measurements and profiles!! My 'disgarded' scratch build from brass is more correct,and that my friend, is hard to believe,but I now need to seek it out from the loft and see what I can do with it now that I have a decent chassis!! Anyway, I think I've said enough,I've stated my opinion, I'll be getting 'condemmed' for sure, but all I want to do is get on with whatever mods I see fit that will improve this model, I'll post the photo when done,and see what the response is .... Dave

I don't think the springs look very realistic, I'll fix that. I've also sent off to Howes for 'yellow/green to re-paint the 'Sherwood Green' band. All Colour photos that I have seen show it to be the same as the production Deltics. The 'couple' codes are in the same order to finish it off....Dave

Picture 2,modified frame height... Picture 3, I think it looks nice with whitewalls!.....Thanks for looking........Dave

Picture 2,modified frame height...

Here are 3 photos with the bogie side raised,picture 1, before......

I just received my 'Baby Deltic' from Hattons last Thursday. Opening the box,I was very happy with what I've just bought,and,after a 12,000 mile trip from the UK,it was 100% intact,nothing had come off! I did not realise that D5902 was a 'glossy' version,but I'm very happy with the finish,it's not just quite as 'glossy' as my D8501 Clayton,and I love that finish! Anyhoo,I've read through 17 pages of comment,some are favourable,some are not, but in the end I agree with what is ' fair comment' I'm no expert in the class, but I thank 'Heljan' in any case for producing one (I tried scratch building one from brass,I say... I tried!!)..I love it..thank you Heljan!!... Now, I've also just purchased the Dapol 22, it's a cracker as well,but that's a different story!, the bogie frames on that were not quite in line with the centres of the wheels,therefor the bogie looked' way too low ' in respect to it's body, and I fixed that! In my mind my 'Baby' suffered from the exact same problem and I went about correcting that (a much easier job than the 22 I'll admit), I have taken a couple of pictures and I will post them later for you to judge for yourselves,if anybody is intrerested in 'converting' after seeing the photos,just let me know,it's quite 'fidly',but easy!....Dave P'S,I only change what in my mind is blatently obvious to me,no rulers, no measuring, I just use the 'peepers'...all I require is for it to look the part,and both of the locos above certainly do that, but way better with the 'mod'!!

Hello,you know I thought I'd made a difference with the 22,obviously not, so I'll say no more and leave you guys with it...Dave

Hello Andy,here's a better angle,we're not really talking of a scale foot, it's been raised about as high as it can go without fowling the underside. The axle boxes are in line with the wheel centres which is a bit better than the original,well, at least I think it is..Dave Hello Andy,here's a better angle,we're not really talking of a scale foot, it's been raised about as high as it can go without fowling the underside. The axle boxes are in line with the wheel centres which is a bit better than the original,well, at least I think it is..Dave

This is the 'non' driver end,this is my last photo and it shows the better lot of springs and it's more in focus..Dave

This one is a bit blurred as well,I'm not much of a photographer,but I think it shows up the new work on the bogies pretty well.Dave

It's a bit blurred, but it's there. The far away bogie shows the better springs that I was going on about...Dave

attempting to show a photo,I'll try one and see how it goes...Dave

I've finished off the bogies,complete with brake blocks,and yes I admit,these are hard to see,probably why Dapol didn't fit them in the first place? Both bogies are heavy weathered in frame dirt with a few streaks of black and I think it all looks pretty good,a photo is being 'thought about' but my camera and computer skills are not good, I have not approached my 'child' as yet! I had taken the couplings off,so I re-fitted one of them after a small washer was removed and the head' flattened' on the screw so that it does not interfear with the bogie,with the bogie height changed,there was a definate probability that this would happen! The cabin glazing was removed so that I could paint out the silver window surrounds on the doors black, I did this because it was easier, my available brush is 'fat', I'm sure I don't have to elaborate!! I 'overlaid' the 'overhead' warning flashes with some of the more correct 'era' I had 'lying around'..10 of them!! I painted the 'insides' of the headcodes flat white thinking this will make the letters and numerals stand out in white,not really!,perhaps I should paint the fronts white as well? The glazing and cab were refitted to the body, detailing of the 'leading' bufferbeam with the pipes and coupling was done, and one full length of side valances were re-fitted back on the chassis (it came off with constant handling) This I think is the first time the loco has been 'as one' since all this work began,and now it's 'more or less' finished',I 'weathered' up the roof a bit using an HB pencil and then the index finger, this 'temporarily' makes the roof look kinda lightly weathered and with my finger, which is now very black,a bit of 'moistening' and I slightly blackened the exhaust ports as well....now it's more like a 22!........Dave

G'day Trevor, in response to your reply,I understand where you are coming from,fair comment for sure!, but as we know, this 'ere hobby (and others like it, I do model ships as well) can be very (very!) frustrating at times and you feel like just throwing the thing against a wall.... or something worse!, then you think "why am I doing this, why did I buy it?" and you want to give up,but, as you say Trevor, leaving it and 'walking away' is sometimes a very good idea!,(I have so many unfinished projects!!) but in my house, the kettles never far off the boil, it's great what a cup of coffee (or two) can do!!.........Dave

I'm thinking I'd be after one as well, I like 'variety' and it's in my 'era',it's not unusual for the two types of loco,'headcodes and discs' to be together,but no doubt it will require the same work done to it. I'm now onto 'fixing the height' of the 'second' bogie on my model. I'm quite satisfied with my number one 'effort'. It may only be a couple of mil,but it makes a huge 'visual' difference to the model. I have found better 'springs' to replace the small Dapol ones fitted to represent the suspension, I'll probably replace those that I've fitted to the first bogie as well,these springs are way better! ( sourced from a packet of 'working' 3 link couplings) I've cut off the relevent suspensions parts from the bogie, (almost the top of my finger as well, I hate new blades!!)drilled the holes required for the new 'pins', and I'm now building up the 'Plasticard' that will secure the bogie to the frame. I have 'found' one of my cameras,(not my 'good one' unfortunately),so if I can find the cables etc, I'll see if I can get my 'child' to get some photos onto my computer,and hopefully onto this site......happy modelling guys...Dave.

I admit that I originally was not totally pleased with this model myself, and yes,I'm doing stuff to it,,but I never once thought of consigning it to the 'back bench!', nothing goes there! Was it that bad a model really?, I don't think so!, we are too spoiled and expect too much nowadays,a model cannot be 100% perfect, we'd love it to be that way for sure, but in reality they are so close to being 'perfect' that it now only requires a 'tweak' or two by 'individuals' who would like to make it so,( I admit to being one of those,but do not call me a 'rivet counter!!') otherwise, the majority of us will be completely satisfied by what an individual manufacturer has gone and done for us, that loco you only dreamed of owning, well,you can now buy one straight off the shelf!!, if it's not out yet,it soon will be!! It's just a fantastic hobby,we have never had it so good,and if I borrow a wee lyric from a Beatles song, "it's getting better all the time"......................Dave

First up,hello Nick,it would be much better if I posted photos,I know that,it would save a lot of "blah blah", but as I can't find it,or it's been flogged, I hope you all don't mind my 'explaining?' Anyhoo, as I really can't explain this 'procedure' without photos (I could...but,it would make the above,'just a page!!') so, all I can say is a few bits of 'Plasticard' did the job and that one bogie has successfully been 'fixed' in place,centralised and past your eyes! 'the gap' has now been reduced to be as near to the body as I can get it! I had been looking at way of still being able to remove the bogie frame if required, I did achieve this, but I thought "why",so I found a set of brake blocks,fitted the 'lifting lugs' lined the thing up again,and once it was right,I secured it with a couple of drops of 'super glue' The bogie has been painted out in 'Railmatch,frame dirt',the new 'spings' highlighted a wee bit with a lighter rust colour. I removed the 'weathering' from the axle box covers with a bit of 'spirit' on a cotton bud bringing them back to black and painted a 'red stripe' on each.( the 'wires that are aparent on each bogie, not the speedo drive, show signs in my photo of being 'red and green',anybody know why??) I could not fix the gaps between the body 'up front' for the life of me, I removed this,cut that, but it still sat 'wonky', so in my opinion it was bent!!...........live with it?,no way! There was no drastic solution, I simply used 'stretched sprue' superglued to the 'chassis',on all 4 corners, filed,sanded and painted,now there are no gaps! Lastly for today,I got the cabs out,found a crew,stuck their bums to the seats and removed the drivers side window,inserting another in the 'down' position,that's it till I start on the other bogie,but this time I know what I'm doing!!....Dave

I've started my 'mods' on the '22'. One bogie 'frame' was removed only, and the the bit that holds it to the chassis cut off. This has been further trimmed and holes drilled in as 'oil ports' as this part is permanently 'superglued' back onto the bogie (between the wheels,I can see no reason in the future to remove this) A trial run was done and all is OK. Next the bogie frame itself, off came the 4 springs, these were separate parts, obviously to allow a 'skinny springs' to be fitted, but each of them broke as I prised them off,not a worry as I was inserting a 'pin' (paper clip) to form the new one. I cut off the part with the 'spring' so all I was left was the small bottom part. I drilled right through this and inserted the new 'pin' right through until it came through the bottom nut on the moulded part. A suitable spring was found in my 'spare box',trimmed to what I thought was OK,this in turn fits over the pin and it was secured with a drop of superglue, I then pushed into the frame part to match it's position on 'my photo'. This was done successfully with the 4 parts. I then I cut through the centre bogie spring and removed the bottom part only, I used a smaller drill bit to drill through these parts and inserted 'handrail wire', (??)this allowed me to make the gap wider on this part and to be 'lower' than the springs. By carefully bending the upper and lower middle springs with small pliers (the bottom part bent while I still had it in my hand) this allowed for the two parts, upper and lower to be joined with 'superglue',and as it has been cut, the'springs' are now two separate parts, if you look close at photos you will notice this. The bottom part of this centre spring is not quite the right shape,it should be a tad 'deeper' (closer to the rail)that will be formed from Plasticard and this will finish my 'mods' to the frames,the whole thing being painted in 'Railmatch Frame Dirt' Lastly, I've now got to find a way to fix the bogie in place 'for ever'' as the 'clips' no longer exist to fit this part. I added strips of 2mm Plasticard at each end of the bogie,frame to frame. This allows for the bogie to fit 'tightly',so that it can be centred and the height adjusted to suit before it is fixed in place. As it stands at the moment the gap is more than halved between the loco and body and it looks way better for it,much more prototypical, as per the 'real thing'. There is a 'screw' head that secures the coupling, this may have to be removed,filed or replaced with a 'flat head screw' and the washer removed, otherwise this 'prototypical' bogie height more or less touches the head of the small screw ,again this is no problem,the coupling on one end will be removed anyway,as for the other end?, we'll cross that bridge! M fellow '22RS' I 'm off in search of some Plasticard to secure this, the first bogie to the loco before doing the other one,and see if I can find some brakes as well.....and a 'crew' while I'm at it......Dave P/s, I got the cabs out and 'fixed' the gaps up front, It was not the cabs, but that's another story!!

I was looking at these 4 'lugs' on the body Keith,maybe I'll just snip a wee bit off them,I'll try that before I rip the cabs out!! I've already snipped off the 4 locating lugs that might be for the speaker,this made no difference..######, but as I'm not fitting 'sound' or a chip for that matter,so it don't matter!! I'm sure I'll get the thing right,but it is annoying,and the more I look at photos,the more I see that I don't like. I thought the 'screw' detail on the window frames was a nice touch,but I'm thinking they are too prominent and look like bolts!! I'm now looking at removing the bogie frames to find a way of closing the gap to the body. There is also that bit (sorry don't really know what you'd call it)in the centre of the bogie underframe,probably a suspension part,anyway, I'm looking at a good photo and it's definately 'lower' than what it is on the model, that means if I get the bogie that wee bit 'closer' (to the body) this part will require to be cut off and 'lowered' so that it's slightly below the bogie detail and closer to the rail. While I'm at it,I'll remove the fittings for the 4 springs (per bogie) and see if I can replace these with some 'heavier' springs that can be seen.Dapol have 'springs' fitted,but they are way too thin and cannot be noticed unless you have superman vision!! If I'm successfull with these 'minor'(?) changes it'll require (as per my photo) the fuel tank painted in green and 'red'stripes' added to the axlebox covers (as per Timken without the 'yellow') Summing up, I apologise for being so critical,but for me this is a 'normal thing',I'm always looking at detail, tearing a model apart is not unusual for me!!, there are always ways to improve on a model,I know model makers have to have some limitations,but for 124 quid I think I expected something better, not up to 'Hornby/Backmann' standards' (yet), and at only 25 pounds 'cheaper' than my NRM DELTIC, I do not think it represents good value for money,it should've been (in my mind)more like in the 80-90 pound mark,sorry Dapol, but it's still not going to stop me getting one of the new 'Warship' (D600) class,it can only get better, unfortunately, not 'cheaper!'......Dave