benjy14

Whilst I appreciate this thread has gone quiet of late, I thought people might be interested to see a thread I have just started about my layout modelling Dale Junction on the Union Pacific's Transcontinental Route across Sherman Hill in the 1950s: I hope it provides a bit of inspiration!

Hi Gordon, Thank you for the inspiration and encouragement. I've taken the plunge and started my own thread. I hope you get your heron problem resolved... Best wishes, Ben

Dale Junction in HO Scale Above: Sometime in the summer of 1957, Big Boy #4014 leads Challenger #3999 on an eastbound manifest freight train through Dale Junction in Wyoming. The genesis of my layout (and hence this thread) can be traced back nearly 40 years, to the much missed Forest Railroad Adventure Park at Dobwalls in Cornwall. As a young lad, my late grandmother lived in Plymouth and we would visit her for a week every summer holidays, and the first day of those holidays were always spent at "Dobwalls" as we always referred to it in our family. I became friendly with the park's owner, John Southern, and would always write to him before we visited to arrange to meet him. He was always so welcoming and friendly, and when I found out that it had closed with relatively little notice, I was heartbroken. But my time there sowed the seeds for my love affair with the Union Pacific and, in particular, the Big Boys... One of my small claims to fame is that I actually drove the Dobwalls Big Boy; it was the first steam locomotive that I ever drove and as you might imagine, it left quite an impression. I am very fortunate to have a video footage, taken by my father, of the event. In the years since then, I have slowly been collecting Union Pacific equipment and built up quite a collection, including two Big Boys (4014 and 4023), a Challenger (3999) and an FEF-3 (844), together with a reasonable number of freight cars and two complete City Streamliner trains, the City of Los Angeles and the City of San Francisco. When my wife and I moved to North Wales in 2012 and extended the house a few years later, I finally had a room in which I could construct my dream layout to represent a part of the UP's transcontinental route between Cheyenne and Laramie, the stomping grounds for the Last of Giants. I had a number of "givens" and "druthers", as the famous American layout deisgner John Armstrong described them, for constructing my dream layout and they were as follows: Depiction of the main two tracks over Sherman Hill in the mid-1950s, allowing the last few years of steam operation to be depicted next to first generation diesels. As I am not a fan of constriucting buildings, I was quite happy to have scene set high up on the Hill with little railway infrastructure. This was also inspired by the N gauge layout that was at Dobwalls. A layout designed to mainly watch trains go by (I am also constructing a model of Cardigan in West Wales, which satisfies my shunting needs!) but with some operational interest. Multiple levels to make the most use of the space in the room and no duckunders (the layout had to be walk-in). To achieve these aims, I have two helixes to lift the trains between the three levels. Reasonable length trains. Whilst scale length trains would not be possible (generally speaking, not even in the cavernous basements in the US itself), there was a hypothesis made in Model Railroader magazine that if you cannot see both ends of a train at the same time, your mind's eye will make you think it is longer than it actually is. I therefore aimed for trains of 25 or more freight cars (except for the passenger trains) and to help the illusion, the viewer walks into the layout between the helixes and Dale Junction opens up in front of you; apart from standing in the door to the railway room, it will not be possible to see the whole of a train running through the layout. DCC operated and with extensive use of computer control. All I needed was a location and after some research (mainly books but also on the Interweb), I came across Dale Junction. This is where Track 3, which was constructed to ease the westbound graident from Cheyenne, met the original two tracks. Further, on the section betweem Laramie and Dale Junction, the route was operated left-hand running, and between Dale Junction and Cheyenne, it was the more usual right-hand running; hence, Dale Junction is where the trains switched from left- to right-hand running. As I knew was only going to build this layout once, I spent nearly 3 years researching and developing a plan using XTrkCad. The planning has paid of in spades; I am about 75% of the way through constructing the benchwork and laying track, and I have followed the plan almost to the inch and to the point. The aim of this thread is to chart the construction of the layout. Even though I've been a member of RMweb for a number of years and have made a few posts, I had been a little reluctant to start a thread as I am not sure how much interest there is in American layouts in the UK. However, having posted in Gordon S's wonderful thread about his stunning Eastwood Town layout and getting favourable feedback about my layout, I felt suitably inspired to start a thread. Construction started in November last year and I had expected progress to be much slower as I have a number of interests, including as a footplate volunteer on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways. However, the Coronavirus outbreak has resulted a huge amount of unexpected free time, so progress has been more rapid than anticipated. To start things off, here are screen captures of the track plan taken from XTrkCad. The planning has paid off because aside from a couple of tweaks to the storage yard, the layout has been constructed exactly as designed. The layout is housed in a room 17" x 12", with the door being in the bottom-right corner of the plans shown below. Above: This is the storage yard on the lower level, which represents both Cheyenne and Laramie. The changes to this design are one less storage siding and some additional locomotive holding sidings. The holding sidings were the idea of a friend from the FfWHR, who suggested that locomotive changes could be simulated by the yard operator during operating sessions. I thought t this was a brilliant idea, so added the sidings. The general idea is that all trains will face to the right in the storage yard. Upon exiting, they can either head right and climb Track 3 as a westbound train, or use the reversing loop to get to either Track 1 or 2; depending on where they go from there, they either come out on the middle level on Track 1 (left-hand running) as an eastbound trains, or come out on the upper level on Track 2 as a westbound train. The longest track holds the train in the lead photo, being #4014, #3999, 31 freights cars and a caboose. Above: This is the middle level that features Dale Junction. The reason for there being two cross-overs in the eastbound direction is to facilate an eastbound train chaging from Track 1 (on the left) to Track 2 (on the right), whilst a westbound train leaves Track 3 and gains Track 1. I will demonstrate this in a later post. Above: This is the upper level, which will simply depict Tracks 1 and 2 somwehere on the hill. Above: This is an overview of the layout and Dale Junction, the focal point of the layout. The photo is taken from the bottom-left corner of the room. This view will remain open, as the track that heads into Hermosa Tunnel passed in front of a window, so there will be no backscene, and for the upper level, the baseboard will be kept as thin as possible. In the middle of the photo, the computer driving the layout can be seen; this is running iTrain, which is connected to the Digikeijs DR5000 controlling the layout. Actual track power is provided by two Lenz LZ103 boosters (one for the storage yard, lower helixes and Dale Junction, and the other the upper helixex and upper level), with the track output from the DR5000 running the accessory bus that drives the points. The layout features full block detection (allowing iTrain to automatically drive the layout) and operating signals (also controlled by iTrain). I also have a YouTube channel, to which I have uploaded a couple of videos of the layout (plus a couple of other bits and pieces); here is a link to the first: I hope people find it of interest and I'll do my best to answer any questions you may have. I will try to keep it reasonably up-to-date but will also provide some history of the construction, plus of course some train photos. Enjoy

I have been considering that for a while and given the favourable responses I've had having posting on this thread, I will see if I can get something started in the next couple of days. I've been a little reluctant to up until now as I'm not sure how much interest there is for North American layouts on this forum (and in this country in general), which was reflected in a recent thread in the area dedicated to US layouts and models, so it'll be interesting to see how much interest there is. Thank you! Yes, there is now I have just uploaded a video to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kcghxgp9Kg Anyway, enough from me; this isn't my thread! Thank you to everybody for your comments and reactions, and I really look foward to seeing more progress on Eastwood Town in the future. Best wishes, Ben

Hi Gordon, Sure, if you don't mind me hijacking your thread, then I'd be delighted to share some photos, with a disclaimer that my woodworking skills are not a patch on yours and I've been very lucky to have the help of a friend from the Ffestiniog who is a very capable carpenter. For a quick bit of background... Dale Junction is where Track 3, which was constructed to ease the westbound gradient from Cheyenne, meets Tracks 1 and 2, the orignal Transcontinental Route across Sherman Hill. The layout is set across three levels; the lower level is the storage yard representing both Cheyenne and Laramie, the middle level is Dale Junction, and the upper level is simply plain double-track mainline repesenting an unspecified section of Tracks 1 and 2 (although I might root it at a specific location in due course). Above: This is Helix B, which I have literally finished this evening. The lower three turns lift Track 3 westbound from the storage yard to Dale Junction. Then, the eastbound tracks 1 and 2 join it from Dale Junction and traverse 4 turns to get to the upper level. The outer track has a radius of 30" with gradient of 2.1%, and the inner track is 27" with a gradient of 2.3%. Big Boy #4023 has become the first locomotive to climb to the upper level, pulling a manifest freight comprising 26 40" box cars and a caboose. Above: This is Helix A, which is about 50% built. The lower three turns lift Tracks 1 and 2 from the storage yard to a double junction, which is on the extreme left. If the trains go straight, they exit the helix eastbound and enter Dale Junction; if they continue climbing the helix, they become westbound and will climb a further four turns to gain the upper level. The helixes are constructed using a technique I read in Model Railroader magazine. I have had the 1/4 turn sections CNC cut from very high quality MDF by a firm in Wrexham, and then I simply build the helix by stacking them using 2"x1" risers. It's very simple but very effective. Above: This is a view of Dale Junction itself. From the bottom, eastbound trains approach on Track 1, the left-hand track and use the second set of cross-overs to gain Track 2 for the descent to Cheyenne; conversely, from the top, westbound trains approach on Track 2 and then cross-over to Track 1 to contine to Laramie. However, most westbound traffic will use Track 3, which swings in from the right. You can also see the central control station, which is a laptop and second external screen running iTrain. Above: This photo shows the overall effect of the three levels that I've always had in my mind's eye and is turning out precisely how I hoped! On the upper level, Big Boy #4023 leads an eastbound manifest freight on Track 2; one the middle level, Big Boy #4014 leads Challenger #3999 eastbound on Track 3; and on the lower level, FEF-3 #844 leads a reefer train through a "scenic window", which I've constructed to pratice scenery building and to give some visual interest on the lower-level. #844 is on the return loop, which allows trains to exit the storage yard, loop round the outside of Helix B, and then enter Helix A on either track. Above: A last photo for @St Enodoc, showing #4014 leading #3999 through Dale Junction with a 32-car manifest freight. They are using the second cross-over to switch from left-hand running between Laramie and Dale Junction on Track 1, to right-hand running between Dale Junction and Cheyenne on Track 2. This changing of tracks is one of the reasons I've chosen to model Dale Junction, as it leads to interesting operations. The reason for two eastbound crossings is hopefully evident from this photo... A westbound train on Track 3 could pass through the junction and gain Track 1 without having to stop. I hope these photos show what you were after. I am very lucky to have such an amazing space to construct such a layout, and to have had the help of my friend in constructing the foundation baseboards for the storage yard. I started the layout in November following more than 3 years of planning using XTrkCad to come up with the final track plan; one of the small consolations of the lock-down for the past three months is having a lot more time than expected to work on the layout. I've followed the original plan almost exactly except for a couple of modifications in the storage yard, such as adding some locomotive holding sidings so that I can simulate locomotive swaps at Cheyenne and Laramie when I hold operating sessions. Best wishes, Ben

Hi Gordon, Thank you for the reply and for your kind comments about my layout. I am lucky to have a purpose-built room 17'x12' in which to construct Dale Junction, although the door in the corner has provided design challenges. As I wanted to avoid a duck-under, the layout has two helixes, with a ruling gradient of 2.1% on the outer track and 2.3% on the inner. Not ideal but I have found my large UP locomotives to generally be capable of hauling long trains up them; the ones that have stuggled are my MTH Big Boy and Challenger, so they are now double-headed and the problem is solved Glad you enjoyed my videos. Yes, I hold my PPL and fly out of Caernarfon Airfield, and it is indeed a stunning part of the world to be able to fly over. I am also a driver on the Welsh Highland Railway; the video from the footplate of 138 was a few years ago when I was still a fireman. I am a very lucky chap! I can well understand that the station area itself is the focus of attention on your layout in terms of operating, so computer automation would not bring as much benefit to you as it did to me (my layout is, in effect, a folded dog-bone with the added complication of changing from left-handed to right-handed running at Dale Junction), especially as I appreciate that you have four independent circuits that you can simply leave to run. I think it well worth exploring the route setting in ECoS because even with a mimic diagram, I find that I still make mistakes if I try setting routes in iTrain manually and much prefer to allow the computer to do it for me! I think this is one of the wonderful things about our hobby; there are as many ways of operating layouts as there layouts and it is fanscinating to see how other people do things because you never know what tip you might pick up. That's quite a remarkable first photograph of the "spaghetti" of track in the first multi-level version of Eastwood Town; it can't have been easy to have taken apart such a beautifully constructed layout but I am sure everybody who has followed this thread understood your reasons. It was so good to see the recent videos of trains running round the latest incarnation of ET and watching the trains flowing through your stunning trackwork is something to which I think most of us aspire! I very much look forward to seeing further progress on Eastwood Town Best wishes, Ben

Hi Gordon, I've been a lurker on your thread for years and find it to be very inspiring; whenever I see an update to Eastwood Town in my news feed, it's always the first one I read! I've decided to post because I think you and I are constructing layouts with the same design goal and that is to (mainly) watch trains go past. My layout is a model of Dale Junction on the Union Pacific Transcontinental route across Sherman Hill and I have designed it with the intent of simply watching long trains being dragged across the Hill by Big Boys, Challengers etc. My reason for posting is that I am controlling my layout with a piece of software called iTrain and I was wondering if you had heard of it? It allows for the trains to be fully controlled by the computer, allowing you to simply sit back and watch them go past. Whilst there is a learning curve to using it, i think it is simpler than using JMRI because you can draw your track plan, configure the block sections and trains, and let iTrain do the hard work for you. It is also exceptional at monitoring where the trains are and stopping them with pin-point accuracy; you do need to calibrate the locomotives in the software to accomplish this but once done, it is quite remarkable watching a train under the control of the computer pulling up to and stopping at a red light in exactly the right place. I have attached a photo that shows my layout (still under construction) in the software and once configured, you can simply click the Play button next to a train and iTrain will drive it on the pre-defined route for you. I have also uploaded a video to YouTube showing trains crossing at Dale Junction entirely the control of the computer: I know this might be a bit too late for you as it relies on block detection to know where the trains are, so I guess that would require a lot of retro-fitting to your layout, but I have found computer controls brings a whole new dimension to running a layout. I hope you find it of interest! Best wishes, Ben

Thank you very much for the information And fantastic layout! Spent quite a while watching it at Warley and loved watching the trains roll past; it was so nice to see a large layout with something actually moving pretty much all of the time (surprising how many layouts are beaitifully built and poorly operated...)! Very impressive

I am very interested to see that you're using CCTV to monitor your layout as I'd like to do precisely the same thing on mine. Having done some research there seems to be an bewildering choice out there..! Please would you mind telling me who makes the system that you're using and where you acquired it? Many thanks! Ben

It's true that using S&W requires a lot of investment in terms of time and learning how to fit build/fit them. And of course, most stock these days have NEM pockets, so fitting Kadees is a doddle. But I think their overall apperance makes the effort worth it, especially as the locomotives only need a simple bar, which means all of the buffer detailing can be added. As for only only facing one way, you can fit a coupling bar at both ends, so that's not an issue, although it is essential to use a jig to build the couplers to ensure that all couplings have the same spacing. Finally, there is some flexibiulity to make the stock close coupled, depending on the radius of your curves; again, a jig helps here. So overall, if you have the time, I would recommend S&W as I think they give very good performance and look great, but otherwise, Kadees are very effective and quick. The only thing to be aware of with Kadees is that the type and mounting the magets is absolutely essential to get right, so I would recommend the technique that I found worked for me earlier in this thread using a shortened Kadee magnet. Cheers, Ben

Hi, Yes, I meant angle grinder, not axle grinder! I've actually now gone away from using Kadees completely now, and use Sprat and Winkle couplings supplied by Wizard Models as I feel they give a better appearance for UK stock, although of course they do require a lot more work to construct and fit. Cheers, Ben

Well, having altered some of the options, the problem seems to have sorted itself and I now only see one entry per unread topic. If I figure out what I changed to make it work, I'll let you know!

What has happened to the old "Content I Follow"...?! I know there is a new "stream" of the same name but I just want to see a list of the topics with unread content and then go to the first unread post in that topic. It seems now that I have to scroll the entire list of unread posts to find the first unread one in any given topic, which is ludicrous. Please, reinstate the old "Content I Follow" view or tell me how to find it!

Many thanks for your reply! I did notice there were variants that do not have LocoNet. I am also interested in using RR-CirKits SignalMan controllers for the signals, which is also compatible with LocoNet, so I am now heavily leaning towards DigiTrax as the main manufacturers' own-brand block occupancy detectors do seem to be rather expensive... I look forward to reading about how you get on with them. On a different note, I grew up Oxford and went through Banbury on numerous occasions on my way to Wales via Birmingham, so your layout invokes a lot of memories; a terrific reproduction of the real place! Ben

Hi, This is very interesting so a question if you don't mind... I am planning a large American HO DCC-controlled layout and block detection will be a key element of it. I've just sold my old Lenz system; it gave good service for many years but with their updated versions, it seemed like a good time to upgrade. However, before I purchase a replacement, I'd like to evaluate some different systems. So, my question is this... I've looked at the specification for the Digikejis block detection unit that you're using and it makes reference to "L-Net" and "LocoNet". Is the same as Digitrax LocoNet? It is not explicitly mentioned but I can't see that they would use the same name if it was not compatible... Sorry if this is a daft question! Many thanks, Ben

My thanks to everybody who has replied to my question. I'm pleased to say that I now have a working solution to this problem that is actually very simple... Using 40-something's suggestion of a strip of Neodymium magnets laid between the sleepers as inspiration, it seemed to me that the whole problem was that the Kadee uncoupling magnet as supplied is too long and that by reducing it in length, uncoupling could still be achieved without the axles being attracted to the magnet itself. So, using an axle grinder, I cut the magnet and steel plate into three bits; one 10mm, one 15mm, and the last is whatever was left (just over 20mm). This allowed me to experiment and what I have found is that the 15mm one works perfectly. Here it is under some test track: And by simply moving a couple of Kadee-fitted vehicles over it by hand, I found that uncoupling would very well without the wheels beig attracted to the magnet. This is obviously hard to show in pictures but the following should (hopefully) so that the magnet does indeed work: There we have it! I hope this little investigation may prove useful to somebody else... Cheers, Ben

D'oh! Obvious when you point it out... Ben

Hi, Thanks again to everybody for replying. Thank for you for this. It is interesting to see that you are also using Neodymium magnets, although in a different way to the other posts I have found. I have already taken delivery of some 4mm radius x 1mm deep magnets and have tried glueing them to the tops of the sleepers; unfortunately, whilst this works, it is not reliable. However, it seems that you have had much more success mounting them between sleepers, so that is what I will try next... I do have a question though... You write in your blog "Each strip must be mounted with opposing poles to allow the couplings to move in operate directions"... Are the magnets marked with their poles? The ones I have here are simple silver discs, so I don't see how you can tell... Thanks again, Ben

Hi everybody, Thanks for your feedback. That is indeed the problem. I have some Kadee wheelsets here and they are considerably smaller that the UK versions; see the image below (Kadee on the left, Alan Gibson on the right): It would seem that my options for replacement wheelsets are basically non-existent, which is both a surprise and a disappointment. Having researched a little further, it would seem that the real problem here is the length of the Kadee uncoupler (this includes the electromagnetic type; I have both types here); using a much smaller and precise magnet may completely avoid the problem. Here is a topic I found: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/323/entry-4982-kadees-and-magnets/ The author is using Neodymium magnets, which are much smaller and therefore, the problem of the axles being attracted to them may be avoided. They are cheaply available from a well-known auction website, so for less than £5, it is worth experimenting. Does anybody reading this have any experiences using these or similar magnets? Cheers, Ben

Hi, I am currently in the planning stages of a 4mm layout BR layout, having previously built an American HO shunting layout. On that American layout, I used Kadee couplers and under-the-track magnets for hands-free uncoupling. I would like to replicate this on my new UK layout, as all of my rolling stock is relatively new with NEM coupler pockets, so installation is a doddle. However, I have a problem... Most HO stock comes with poor quality wheelsets with steel axles and plastic wheels. This is easily resolved with replacement Kadee wheelsets, which not only dramatically improve running but crucially, are non-magnetic. Likewise, all of my UK stock has metallic wheelsets, which means that they are attracted to the magnets and makes uncoupling impossible. I have tried in vain to find a supplier of non-magnetic wheelsets for use with UK rolling stock; even inquiring at the Alan Gibson stand at the Warley show drew a blank. I know that a number of layouts use Kadee couplers or other forms of magnetic uncouplers, so how do others solve this problem? Surely there is somebody, somewhere who produces high-quality, non-magnetic wheelsets for UK rolling stock? Or is there another solution (for example, using much smaller magnetics)? Please help! TIA, Ben

Hi David, Wish I had but afraid I'm far too young and only moved to this part of the world two years ago...(!) No, just very interested in what Anthony is building. Ben

Hi Anthony, I quite agree with David. I live near Caernarfon and visit Bangor station regularly as my wife commutes to London, so am following your developments with interest and anticipation. Keep up the good work! Regards, Ben