Doncaster Green

I had considered that Jim, but the top mounting is so close to the corner of the window that I’m not sure I could get the nick accurate enough to not show. If I pre drill the glazing I can use a couple of pieces of wire to make sure it is in the right place when I glue it in (much the same way as I do with the lower panelling overlay to make sure it’s properly lined up) so that the holes all line up for fitting the handles. Regards John

Hi Izzy I’m currently using 0.33mm straight brass wire which is possibly a little over scale. I’ve now got hold of some 0.245mm nickel silver wire and will give that a go, along with some chemical blackening agent instead of paint. When (if) I attempt some lined stock the handles and rails will have to in last, probably using gel cyano. Regards John

The Carriage Works has seen little activity over the last couple of weeks thanks to matters domestic. There has been SOME progress! The Thompson Diag 361 BT has very nearly made it to the paint shop queue: Just a couple of little bits to do, adding the alarm gear to the compartment end, adding vac pipes and the horizontal guards' handrails - they were left off until now due to the proximity to the end and the shape (they go vertical very slightly before going horizontal and every attempt so far has seen the vertical bit being way to big!). That paint shop queue is getting quite long waiting for suitable weather to get the spray equipment out and I'm getting impatient, so much so that I attempted to brush paint one of my earliest builds (and thus not one of the best). I am not overly happy with it and it may be stripped! Not too bad from a distance although the guards handrails are bit tar like and need attention. I think with panelled stock and a lot of care I might get away with it, but no way on flush sided stock. What is clear is that, if I want to have any in lined maroon, I will have to change my construction order. With the grab handles in place, lining is almost impossible as it goes underneath them. If they are fitted after painting I am not going to be able to solder them or smooth down the inside to fit glazing. It seems to me that I am going to need to prepare and pre-drill the glazing using the sides as a template so that I don't need to drill once it's fitted. With the needed holes so close to the bottom edge of the glazing it's going to be a certainty that it gets pushed in! Any thoughts anyone? In the meantime I have become the proud possessor of half a dozen Masterclass kits for Gresley gangwayed stock. They are 1:148 rather than 1:152 but, hey, gangwayed and NG rarely, if ever, ran together. At this moment I haven't decided which one to start first or even if I frame the etches and hang them on the wall! Much research is needed on paint schemes - I have seen the lining in about three different positions! Before then I have to work out how the ends and sides relate on the corners. Be grateful for any advice. Regards to all. John

The pair on the Culm Valley were Diag 340 4 Compartment BTs transferred there to replace the life expired ex Barry Railway coaches. They were renumbered into the Western Region list. The one on the Highbridge branch was a Diag 361 5 compartment BT and as far as I can tell was never renumbered. regards John

What with visits to snowdrop plantations (I am the taxi driver) and car service and MOT, not a lot of actual modelling has been done over the last few days. The D361 BT has arrived on the bench and a start has been made, but there is not enough progress yet to post any pictures. However, following all the discussion about ‘wandering’ Thompsons, I think I may have found another to add to the D361 on the Highbridge branch and the D340s on the Culm Valley. In the latest issue of ‘Backtrack’ there is an article on the M&SWJR and one of the photos is of 75029 arriving at Swindon Town in 1960 with a two coach train. The rearmost is definitely a long underframe Mk 1 NC Third (or would it be second by then?) while the front carriage looks suspiciously like a Thompson D360 2+4 Brake Composite. How many more escaped? Were ER not treating them right? Or were they just so good that everyone had to have one? Regards John

Lovely knees Jerry! The smoke troughs look pretty good as well. John

If I've read the number correctly, the Thompson BT is the same one as in the picture Jerry posted a few days ago. I now know which number not to apply to the D361 just arriving on the workbench! John

Not a lot has happened in the carriage works this week, real life in its many forms has got in the way. I missed a bit of a trick, the nice weather the last couple of days was an opportunity to get some primer on coach bodies that was not taken! I have, however, taken delivery of 100 tiny magnets and started considering how best to mount them and the necessary pieces of steel. But where to source the required steel? Steel shim in thicknesses from as little as 2 or 3 thou to whatever you want is available if you want several meters of it and are willing to pay a not inconsiderable sum of money! There is a place in Bath where, in the past, I have obtained offcuts of thin aluminium and brass but they have not dealt in steel shim for some years. So, I started turning out the garage. Good move, as my other half thought I was tidying it up! Sorting through an old toolbox I came across a couple of sets of feeler gauges. Now I have not needed these since I last had a BMC 'A' series engine (over 40 years ago) and no way am I going anywhere near the current car with them! Re-purposing is under way, particularly the 6 - 11 thou range. I think, eventually, there will be a use for the thinner ones as overlays on brass/nickel silver or plastic. As I have discovered, retro-fitting to already assembled body carcasses is not easy. Using Nick Mitchell's method, outlined on here a few days ago, I have fitted the magnets to the roof moulding without problem, but soldering the steel plate to the end of the body is a bit of a contortionist's nightmare, trying to get the soldering iron in between the sides and attack the joint at the same time holding the steel squarely in contact and not damaging the alarm gear and lamp irons on the outside of the ends. I think I may try forming a small bracket from etch waste, solder that to the end and then solder a strip of steel on top of that - it may end up easier. The brake ends are also going to be an issue because of the end windows that will need to be glazed - the glazing (hopefully) fits in the inner end sitting on a ledge created by the cosmetic overlay. I will post a couple of pictures of what I mean when I reach that stage with the next brake coach I build which, after all the discussion of it on this and another thread, could well be a Thompson D361 BT, being now in possession of some Thompson pattern buffers! Regards John

Must admit I wasn’t aware of that. I know with a lot of pictures of Gresley panelled stock if the light is right and highlighting the top beading they can look lined, but I usually dismiss that as an optical illusion. The period I am interested in is post 1956/57, right on the livery change, due to a building at the back of my layout that wasn’t built until 1956. Hopefully, by this time any crimson stock that was originally lined would have had a repaint. Regards John

Hi Argos Like you I tend to fit the grab handles with the side in the flat, mainly because I can then solder them in and file back the inside so it doesn't interfere with the glazing (when I get round to fitting it). I leave the door handles until the coach is painted and then pop them in with cyano. So, like you I will have problems if I want a lined version. I wonder how much the existence of lining is down to the works that did the last repaint? It does seem a bit of a lottery. I have pictures of LT&S section stock some of which is lined but most is not. The two Thompson 4 Comp BTs that ended up on the Hemyock branch weren't lined. Most of the pictures I have of East Midlands stock appear to be unlined but the pictures are B&W and the dates are such that they could be crimson (which was not lined on NG Stock) rather than maroon. More research needed, or do I just carry on and hope that nobody notices if it should have been lined? Regards John

Hi Argos Those D361s get everywhere! They're like buses, look everywhere for pictures and then two turn up at once! But you've now put me in a dilemma. The picture Jerry (queensquare) posted in his Bath Queen Square thread of a D361 on the Highbridge branch in Somerset shows one in unlined maroon, your picture shows a lined version. So, modelling an area between the two, what version of the livery do I apply to mine when it's built? Lined, unlined or one side lined, the other not? Regards John

Do they accept personal callers Jerry? If I'd known I could have saved on postage. regards John

Hope they're not the same 100 I've just bought Steve! John

Hi Andy As I say the curve is very slight and quite light finger pressure seems to straighten it. I will try the magnets first on a Semi Cor Lav Composite where I've got the toilet compartment to hide them and see how it goes - first I've got to order the magnets - next job! Regards John

Hi Andy The curve is very slight, about 0.5mm over a length of 104mm - just enough to show a visible gap in the middle. Would the strength of a magnet in the middle be sufficient to pull it straight? John

Thanks Steve With 3D prints Granny definitely does not know how to suck eggs! Any guide as to how long to leave it in the water? John

Nick Thank you very much for this. The mention of magnets had me wondering how on earth to fit them and I now see! Next job - get some magnets. If the ones I am looking at on-line are similar (they are quoting a pull of about 1.5g) they seem extremely cheap. I also like the idea of a strengthener along the top of the sides, unfortunately there is only 1mm between the top of the window and the roof edge on the stock I am building and I think I need that to secure the glazing. With a roof in position the sides seem to be stiff enough to resist normal, gentle, handling. With the resin roofs fixing the ends seems sufficient but with the 3D printed ones I may have to look at something in the middle as they seem to have a slight bow in them that straightens with very little pressure, unless anyone can suggest a method of removing the bow without, potentially, damaging the roof. Your tip about bogie mounting I am going to give a try. The idea of being able to do the screw up tight certainly appeals. At the moment I am using the fold-up boxes, 1 on the bogie stretcher and one on the underframe, with a washer between them - an etched circle at one end and an etched cross bar at the other. The underframe box traps a filed down 10BA nut. In my case the mounting is level with the solebar. The ride height is probably a tad over scale but the bogies will swing enough the negotiate 2ft curves without the wheels clashing with the sole bars. In order to secure the mounting bolt from vibration I put another 10BA nut on the end of the bolt where it passes through the underframe to act as a locknut. Again, thanks very much for the tips. Regards John

Apologies for the delay in responding but I have just returned from a very enjoyable day at the British Motor Museum at Gaydon. Cannot recommend it highly enough, well laid out, very knowledgeable staff all over the place and a lot of stunning exhibits if you are into British cars from 1890 ish to 2017. Izzy, I hear what you say and am forewarned. I have been giving roof fixing a lot more thought. I am loathe to use long bolts through the floor as they are going to be difficult to disguise in NG stock with no toilets. I tried to look at the thread that Steve (Atso) suggested but, unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the pictures are viewable anymore and, although I think I know what is being suggested, I'm not absolutely sure. Jerry's suggestion does intrigue me and I'd love to see how it's done. One thought that is festering in what passes for my brain is the idea of making the interior and roof as one complete unit that slots in so that only short bolts are needed to hold everything. I can visualise a way of doing it but am unsure of which adhesive to use to marry a false ceiling to the roof. I have a mix of resin cast, where I am assuming evostik or similar would be the choice, and 3D printed where I am have no idea how it would react to different adhesives. Would evostik still be OK or am I looking at cyano or something? Any advice will be very gratefully received. Regards John

Thanks for the heads-up Jerry. Diary entry made and leave chitty negotiated! Regards John

The second Diag 250 Twin is ready for clean up! Here is a view of the first complete 5 car rake, 2 x D250 with a D299 Semi Corr Lav Comp between them: And a shot to, I feel, justify my decision to fit door hinges to flush sided stock: The first one built without hinges behind the one built with hinges. I think the work is justified - it does really make a difference. Regards John

The other day I promised to air my approach to bogie construction. Don't get me wrong, what follows is in no way criticism of the Masterclass/2mm Assoc. etch for the standard 8' 6" Gresley bogie (which is a lovely example of the art). It is about how I adapted the construction method to enable 8 articulated sausages and 2, just about opposable thumbs, to, as I said above, avoid making a sow's ear out of a silk purse! With the first few I built, I followed the suggested methodology of soldering the bearings into the bogie stretcher and building up the laminations using the bearing cups to aid the correct location. This was fine until the final, cosmetic, outside frame where I was above the level of the cup and struggled to get the frame square in relation to everything else. I'm not sure what the depth of the bearing cup is, but by the time the outer frame goes on there are already five layers at 10 thou per layer less the half etch in the stretcher to position the bearing. So, about 45 thou or just over a millimetre plus an allowance for the solder between them. It was also suggested that the laminations should be left on the fret until the joint was made. This was giving me 2 problems. Firstly, I was having difficulty getting the laminations to 'stick' while manipulating the fret and, secondly, I was having trouble releasing the etch from the fret and cleaning off any tab residue. How I wish I could find a pair of side cutters with jaws thin enough to go in the gap between the etch and the waste! After struggling for 3 pairs, I cast around for another approach that would suit my cack-handedness and came up with this. The holes in the etch to take the bearings are, as near as dammit, 1mm diameter and I had in my 'useful bits' drawer some 1mm OD aluminium tube; why not make a simple jig with a couple of pieces of tube and a scrap of wood and build the laminations up on that. Of course, the bearings would have to go in last, but that was not going to be a problem. This works well, a distinct advantage being that each layer can have tab residue removed before fitting and can be held firmly in place while the heat does its job! Not forgetting a quick run through with a 1mm drill bit to make sure it clears the tube. There are still the axle box covers to be manipulated into position using a very small screwdriver to fiddle and then hold, and one day I will get all four square on a bogie, but, again, they can be cleaned up before fitting. Then come the footsteps; six per bogie on Gresley NG stock and anything up to six on Thompson. On each side there is a long step between the axle boxes and two shorter ones at the ends. So different from the Midland style of one long one with cut outs to clear the boxes. The steps are designed with fold up tabs that are meant to fit into slots formed between the fourth and fifth laminations of the frames. I just could not keep these slots clear of solder and, therefore could not get the tabs to locate properly. So, I thought, why not forget folding the tabs and just solder direct to the underside of the frame. Fine for the middle step: but the end ones would end up slightly higher due to the upward curve in the frame. So, take two pieces of etch waste and solder across the ends to create a 10 thou pad for each step to attach to: The end result being: A few strokes of a file to clean the inside back to the frame to avoid contact with the wheels and it's there! The steps are now level for and aft although they are, because of ignoring the bend in the tab, a smidgen high on the frame compared to the prototype, but I don't believe that is noticeable. I must point out here that the tolerance measures used buy this workshop are 'smidgens' and 'tads' where 2 smidgens roughly approximate to a tad! I would welcome any comments on this, but, suffice to say, it works for me and has avoided me throwing my hands in the air and the whole lot in the bin! After my latest battle of the bogies the second D250 Artic is ready for clean up and the paintshop (eventually!) and I will post a couple of pictures shortly. Regards John

Jerry I've just checked my e.mails with Chris and he did say he had some Thompson underframes. I've also realised that I should have had some of them, but forgot when I put my order together! If all else fails I may have a spare underframe that could go with some Worsley etches. Regards John

My memories of old Nottingham are a bit hazy so I may well have Beecroft's location wrong. I didn't live in the city but in a small town about 20 miles away and visits to the metropolis were about every 6 to 8 weeks accompanying 'Mother on a mission"! At the time she was a secretary to our local Junior school and was usually headed to Sisson & Parker, who held the NCC contract for school stationery, to sample the goods and give them an order. She later qualified as a lecturer in 'Office Skills' (shorthand and typing in those days) at Trent College before it was even Trent Poly let alone Nottingham Trent University. I left the area to go to college before the real vandalism started and have only been back a couple of times in the last 50 years, although my brother still lives in the area and gives me chapter and verse on the latest (mis)developments. Regards John

Hi Argos I've just been having a look at Etched Pixel's web site to see if I could see which scale the Thompsons are and most are being listed as out of stock. There is a note on the news page that says he will not be restocking 3D printed items post BREXIT because of Shapeways ever increasing prices and the costs and hassle of import fees and documentation, so I wonder what the future for the kits is. I am not aware of an equivalent 3D printing outfit in the UK. Perhaps all those guys on here experimenting with 3D at home are on the right track! Luckily from my point of view the bits I will be sourcing from EP (dynamos, guards duckets, vacuum reservoirs) are good old whitemetal. Regards John

Thanks for that Argos. What scale are the Etched Pixel kits? Are they 1:148 as I think Jerry will be looking for 1:152 having probably already built the ex LMS stock that seems to have run with it. Old age is certainly catching up with me as I've only just remembered buying a 1:152 Thompson 5 Comp BT from Worsley Works - their website just lists it as a 5 Comp BT with no diagram number - and I've just been to check it and it is a Diag 361 with round cornered widows. As an aside for Jerry: if Chris hasn't got any and you go with Worsley I'm pretty sure Chris told me he had some 52ft Thompson underframes, but you'd need to check. Regards John