adrianbs

Hi Hartleymartin That is one if the points I have already raised as in order, for instance, to alter the rivetting arrangement on the smokebox to remove those not required it is essential to be able to remove the smokebox to be able to get at the lower rivets. I have assumed the multitude of variations will not all be catered for and that, as per the CAD there will be a "Full house" of rivets. For many locos some of the 3 sets of rivets will need to be removed. The smokebox is currently glued to the footplate and not easily removeable according to RW. As there may be as many as 7 possible combinations I would be surprised if Dapol are planning that many different mouldings. Then there are all the chimney and smokebox door options as well, which may require different smokebox tooling. It very much depends how authentic Dapol consider the model needs to be but if the attitude of many modellers to locos is far more critical than to wagons these points will need careful consideration. Regards all adrianbs

Hi All Well! here we are, over 2 years later, with still no real idea what prototype these milk tanks are supposed to represent and with so many errors it is difficult to even guess what was the intended victim. The latest prepro shows a design with even more anomalies than the later CADS. One can only assume at this stage that Dapol are not intending to make an accurate model of anything but just want a freelance cash-cow to issue in every livery they can find. No doubt this will be supplemented by large numbers of short run specials with totally fictitious liveries just like their freelance O gauge 5 plank open and 4mm milk tanks. With RW running the design department one might have assumed an accurate GW version would have been likely, especially with the claims that under his leadership there will be no seriously innaccurate models from now on. As the model currently stands the tank stays and stanchions are LMS, the basic underframe, springs and hangers and tie strip are GWR but the axleboxes are LMS, of a sort. The tank cradle seems to be freelance and the buffers are the totally incorrect short 4 rib RCH type instead of the longer RCH 2 rib GWR or for the LMS the 4rib longer versions. The brake gear is difficult to identify but is certainly not GWR Dean/Churchward and actually looks more like the SR design, although without knowing what the other side looks like, your guess is as good as mine. Whether there are to be two different designs as indicated by the second pair of CADs has not been made clear but in any case most of the errors will remain. The cradle with 4 supports does look more like one of the LMS variants although a long long way from being accurately profiled. There have been no further updates on the forums and there has been no mention of which of the Big Four designs these represent, nor any running numbers. It looks like the same ploy is being used again, don't let the modellers know what is being done and they can't criticise. When the models appear Dapol will be able to claim that there was no input from the experts and so they assumed the models were acceptable. No doubt the first batch will be a preorder sell-out long before any reviews are published just as other models have been. Regards all Adrian

Hi All I am afraid Jon Fitness and others will be disappointed with regard to I O W variants as those originally listed have now disappeared on the new listing if it is still current. I hope they have not placed preorders in anticipation. I have spoken to RW about a couple of points which I was concerned about, in the hope that some changes can still be made. The appearance of the A1x prepros will be interesting as we have only had the original 2012 CAD so far and the smokebox rivetting arrangement will be important for anyone wishing to model other locos and/or different eras. Regards all adrianbs.

Hi all, I have been modelling in 7mm for about 55 years now, and I clearly remember over the years being able to inspect RTR O gauge models at shows and in the few shops that stocked O gauge ( are there that many even today ? ) True these models were either handmade, kitbuilt or pre/postwar RTR. Bassett Lowke, Exley, LMC, Milbro,Triang Big Big and Lima but could be found in shops. There was no preordering going on, unless you were commissioning a model from one of the specialist RTR builders. In addition there were RTR models from Rivarossi Lima and Pola Maxi etc of continental design often available. The standards of many were not that high but nor were the standards of 4mm at that time. With regard to the design of the model Terrier it would seem from the interview by Mark Chivers with Joel Bright and Richard Webster that most of the design is done in China and that the UK end simply approves, or not, the results. The original CAD images of 2 years ago show an A1x but the current design of the A1 seems to follow that fairly closely as far as it is possible to tell. This was well before RW took a hand although no doubt he has been doing a lot of rechecking of the design. The additional 4 tankside fixings were NOT on the original CAD. The Saga of changes to what is actually being released is most baffling, Starting in July 2012 version 001 has gone from 32640 to 32655; 002 from 32646 to 32661; 003 from "Freshwater" W8 to SR Green 2644 and 004 from "Stepney" to "Ashstead" to "Thames" . Two additional versions were later announced and 005 has changed from LBSC Marsh livery 661 ex "Sutton" to "Brighton" in Stroudley post Paris exhibition livery whilst 006 has changed from SR green W9 (I.OW.) to KESR blue "Bodiam". It wil be interesting to see what happens to preorders placed for locos at an early date, will they be offered another version, which, of course, they may not want or told their choice is not available and there is no stock of a suitable alternative. This problem has already occurred with the SR pillbox brakevan and some retailers appear not to have realised, even now, that there has been a total change both to the liveries and the design with the models due in this week ??. Has anyone with preorders been contacted about the changes to the Terriers ?? Regards all adrianbs.

Hi all And a PS for Nick Holliday, the number of tank fixings is 12 not 10, there are 3 each end and 2 in the middle originally but later 4 more. By no means all locos, either as A1s or A1xs had raised buffer housings and a number of preserved locos still have the original buffer position. Boxhill, when preserved, correctly reverted to the lower position having had the raised body and its heavy casting behind when used for auto train work, Only about 20 locos out of 50 were so used and it would appear the others were not modified. There are many pitfalls with Terriers and it will be interesting to see how, or if, they are overcome, especially after the initial releases when other locos are produced which need slight differences to be correct. The plumbing of the air pump will be an intriguing exercise to do realistically, even in lost wax brass it is difficult enough to produce. Just painting it with all the lining will be quite a feat. I hope the overall painting is done well enough for the original livery that a full repaint is not required to get it right, as that will be a very expensive exercise and will probably cost more than the loco. Some of the bigger retailers have already sold all their allocation of some liveries and if they have changed the descriptions as PD&SWR has correctly stated,some customers will not get their order at all as their choice will not be appearing. Even more frustrating for them will be if, as stated in the GOG Gazette, the next batch will be significantly more expensive and may be some time away depending on when the next free production slot is. Oh! the joys of outsourcing to China.and the need to preorder, sight unseen, models which may, or may not, actually be produced, and may, or may not, be as good as you were expecting. Long gone, in so many cases, are the days when you could pop into your local model shop and look at a prospective purchase and decide which model you wanted or wait for a reliable review before making your mind up. Regards all adrianbs .

Hi all Only just come across the site, sorry for the delay, I am sure you are all waiting with bated breath for my contributions. Nick Holliday has done a great job of explaining the "Rivets" and I think the reason for the complicated design may be due to COHSE regs. or the equivalent in the late 1800s. Apart from insulating the tanks which probably prevented burnt fingers if they got really hot, I suspect the "Rivet" design was so that the sharp corners of Hex nuts, which could potentially have caught the clothing etc of some city gent, was eliminated. This is apart from the fact that it looked nicer. There are slight differences between the first six and later locos with regard to the number of handrail supports along the boiler side. One less on the first six and a consequent repositioning of all;fixing bolts between the side tanks and the boiler. Terriers were almost pannier tanks as the tanks were largely supported by a very heavy plate over the boiler top. This plate was too thick to have the rather sharp bend shown on the Dapol model, it should have quite a large radius between the large NUTS ( NB not little rivets ) and the boiler. I hope the model is 7mm/ft this time and not 1/43 like the wagons. . I have currently mislaid my files on Terriers otherwise I would post a picture or two. I shall be disappointed if the extra tankside "rivets" are there as I plan to have one as Boxhill when preserved in '48 if the rest of the model is OK, and I can get name transfers (Hint hint ! ) I will have to try and remove the redundant ones and touch in the lining. Failing that it may have to be an Alan Brackenborough rename and touch in, which will be rather expensive. Regards all adrianbs

Hi All Alan B. did work in the shop for a while, so he has just emailed me, as a freelance ?? before moving to his current home in the west. He can't help with Simon Kelly but remembers Mike Sheppard, builder and pattern maker who has been mentioned earlier. Mike made many sets of patterns for Eames road vehicle kits and then for Cotswold/Sutherland as well as other people. Roy will remember him doing some of the GS kits. Regards all adrianbs

Hi Peter Bedding It is not just the axleguards that differ, as previously mentioned but the solebar, detailing is also different Had Bachmann been a bit more clued up about southern brakevans you could probably already have a SECR "Dancehall" brakevan for your Wainright loco. Why do I say this ?? because if instead of doing all the different variants of the SR Pillbox design they could have used the tooling money to do the body for the "Dance hall" which would have fitted on the chassis of the early SR Pillbox van. The SECR design was actually carried over onto the first 150 SR vans with very little alteration. Clearly the faults already mentioned in my post 131 would still exist if they had not been eliminated by their QC department. The cost of the body and a new step unit would be roughly what they would have saved on only tooling one Pillbox van and additionally, with some extra components and a bit of "Clever design" they could also have done the SR rebuilt permanent way batch of 10. Admittedly these vans probably never received SECR livery but the earlier batch did, and provided you accept the slightly different design with 12" solebars which your standards would obviously allow you could have been a happy bunny ! I thought it might be helpful to give some alternate numbers to correct the Dapol van but obviously you would rather I did not. Additionally anyone modelling after 1982 should also renumber the olive green ZTP van as Paul B's photos show that it looked very different after the rebuild. adrianbs

Hi All, It was extremely enterprising of Bachmann to do the two different underframes, steps and body designs but they have been a bit too clever for their own good if the picture of 55583 on page 4 of the forum is of a typical model. They have, at least on that example, made a faux pas and put the later underframe on a van which should have the early underframe but later step unit. The steps appear to be separate mouldings so I assume they could be interchanged on either solebar although I do not wish to try prising mine off to check. There are suitable numbers from Paul Bartletts invaluable files and 56094 and 56118 would seem good candidates. I do not have a full house of these models so I am not sure if others suffer the same problem. The two SR livery vans are correct in this respect. Only even plank RH ducket vans Nos 55519 to 55538 ; 55566 to 55585 and 55993 to 56022, 70 vans in total had this combination. All the other 200 even plank RH ducket vans and 2+2 van had the later chassis. An interesting colour option is to paint the solebars and buffer beams in BR grey like the body. There may have been quite a few like this but they are usually so filthy the colour of most vans is a mottled grey-brown sludge making the original livery difficult to determine even in colour pictures. It is rather a pity that so much was invested in so many different mould tools without making more effort to ensure they were accurate Personally I would have preferred one accurate model with various liveries rather than almost every possible model all with a large number of errors. Eventually there will be a RTR one that is accurate but probably not in my lifetime now this one has queered the pitch. Regards all adrianbs

Hi all Every other forum I have posted on specifically gives the manufacturer in the title at the top pf the page. This one does not, so one might be forgiven for assuming it to be a general forum on SR pillbox brakevans in any scale or from any manufacturer. I notice references to the Cambrian model have not been deleted.! Regards all adrianbs

Hi Andy Y, Perhaps you would be kind enough to return my posts which you found irrelevant so that they can be used in the correct forum. The title of this forum makes no mention of Bachmann so seemed a perfect place for comments about any SR Pillbox brakevan Regards adrianbs

Hi All yere tis ! adrianbs

Hi Roy, Alan Brackenborough aka Bracks is very much still around. I spent an afternoon on the 14th of this month in his beautiful garden watching the 7mm/ft trains going round. He is still painting to the highest standards but tries hard to avoid work, if he can, as he likes to make things for himself. There were about 30 other invited guests and they had brought some fabulous models to run. Highlight of my day near the end was an LNER 2..8.0- 0.8.2 double motored Garrett hauling 70 heavy wagons (many from w/m kits, know what I mean !!) which was just about on the limit, up the 1 in 70. There was little point in double heading with the LMS Garrett, which was also there, because there were no more wagons available. Impressive though that was, I was even more delighted when Alan informed me that the leading wagon was equipped with one of my new scale size GWR whitemetal "Instanter" coupling links which I had sent him as a sample just in case such a situation might occur during one of his open days. Fortunately it did not let me down and I can confidently offer them to Joe Public now. The owner of the Garrett seemed disinclined to let me try dangling his loco in the air with the link, just to see how strong it was, but I doubt many other modellers would be able to give it a harder test in normal use. I believe Mike Shepard is no longer with us but I don't know about the others. Regards all adrianbs

Hi All Nice views 26power, they both seem to be 556s though !! Having found the GA for the 555 I find it states that the donor coaches were the "Shorty" ones 52' 6" long but this still means the headstock would have been moved back by about 18" so that it was more or less in line with the outer end of the bogie. I wonder if the opportunity will be taken to add a second coupler pocket to the inner end so that standard couplers could be fitted for the bogies to be used on normal coaching stock. The DBT will need the couplers buried well into the end of the bogie to maintain the normal position relative to the buffer faces. This would not have been a problem on the 556s as the underframes do not seem to have been shortened at the outer end and "normal" LMS bogies would probably have worked without problems. Regards all adrianbs

Hi Belgian, Not much!! What is even worse is that when first announced the price was £12-40 although I am unsure if the first batch actually sold at that RRP, does anyone know??. This means that since September 2012 when the first models left the shops until May 2014 when the new price was announced, Bachmann's price for a standard unweathered model has almost doubled. If the rises that Bachmann have stated for Chinese workers are actually carried out the price could well be about £27.or more this time next year. I decided to have a look at Barry's Cambrian kit versions whilst at EXPOEM and finished up buying a 25T and a 12T van. Whether I ever find time to do anyrhing with them I don't know but I should be able to turn a pretty penny profit if I sell the Bachmann ones to a non-rivet counting modeller next year. I might regret this latest purchase if the RTR model gets retooled for the next batch but I would not put much money on that happening. Regards adrianbs.

Hi All As far as I am aware the redesign work is now with Dapol and Richard Webster and I had hoped we would see how things were progressing. Now that they have the information they were looking for to modify the bogies there will clearly be quite a lot of work involved, especially if they believe that a really accurate bogie might give them an opportunity to sell them as upgrades to other models. It would also enable them to produce a few of the missing LNER coach types although most have now been covered by Bachmann and Hornby. The "Shorty" corridor coaches, 52' 6" long, have not been done and with the GE locos appearing soon these would be very useful and to a lesser extent the attractive green & cream Tourist stock.,These mainly used the lightweight bogie but alas, my favourites, the "Quads" and "Quints" essential for an N2 or N7 all used the heavyweight bogie, not available on an RTR model, even the Hornby Buffet unless they have recently upgraded it. Regards all adrianbs

Hi All, Hate to have to say this at such a late stage but I have just discovered my official drawing of the brake tender body at the back of my cabinet. I thought it was one of the drawings that had been thrown out because it had faded to invisible. It gives all the main dimensions etc but I am not sure it indicates the panel lines just the structure holding the panels in place. .It will be difficult to copy as it is about 6ft by 2ft 6ins, almost 1/4 scale. It is the 555 diagram and was what I used for my original patterns. I shall really be able to compare the model, when it appears, with the real thing now. Pity I had not been approached at the start, I might have found it in time to be of use. I assume neither MIike Wild nor RW were using an official GA. I wonder if the guys on the GC had found a copy for their full size replica. Regards adrianbs

Hi All Had the new price for the Bachmann Pillbox been the result of a complete retool and all the errors eliminated I think I would have spent the money although I would most likely have looked around for a discount deal. Hornby have been forced to retool their Gresley coaches for the third time and I assume that is why the prices are now so high. Had they done a "Proper job" i.e. retooled the tumblehome, the chassis and the bogies as well, to eliminate the remaining major errors I shudder to think what the RRP would now be, £70, £80, £99-95 ?? If the price had to go up £10 just to move the incorrect beading,then narrowing the chassis and new tools for the bogies plus new sides again for the tumblehome------ !!!. If Bachmann's price hike of 20% has still to be added by Hornby to their prices then even without mods, the coaches may be over £70 next year. Looks like the "Made in Britain" logo may soon be appearing on many products involving low levels of unskilled labour. Mine are and alway have been to a very large extent and my prices become more competitive every year. Regards all adrianbs

Hi 34 etc I think I got it this time, but perhaps best not to explain if I did adrianbs

Hi all Yes I had indeed noticed the prices mentioned above which may well put off a fair few from buying the Pillbox but it will be a problem even for those who wish to obtain them as they are now few and far between, both on retailers sites and Ebay. The Queen Mary although many years old does not suffer from quite as many misplaced rivets although the rail along the bottom of the side has quite a few missing or misplaced. It too seems only to be available in the less interesting liveries. The detailing on the QM is pretty good even though the plank grooves are very overscale like the Pillbox. The verttical steel members are rather overdone in thickness anf the handrails are not separate but still look OK from normal viewing distance The bogies are accurate apart from the details which are in the wrong plane ( Brakeshoes and central bolsters ) I am not sure why the bogie van is so much cheaper, or rather, why the Pillbox is so much more expensive, this may well be a sign of things to come. I wanted a train of Warflats but they are still not available and I rather doubt the original price indication on one retailers site of £21+ for the version with the tank is going to be anywhere near the actual figure. The preorder prices are no longer guaranteed so it will be no good whacking in large orders in the hope of saving a lot of money !!! The warflat itself is a fairly easy to produce model but if the Tank is going to be reasonably accurate it will be a major part of the price. There are many partwork 1/72 tanks available and the prices are around the £10 mark. I just hope the tank is 4mm scale and not 1/72. so until it i released I will be saving my money or more likely building a few more of my own kits. Regards all adrianbs

Hi 34------------B&D OK, so i'm getting old and don't watch catchprase, pity you could not do the cartoon though!!! I might have got it straight away. adrianbs

Hi 34--------B&D "Comedically red-hot ducket---" Afraid you've lost me there !!! regards adrianbs

Hi again Dibber, Does seem like you are suggesting those modellers who voted on the awards did not bother to look at the models. I did not intend to give the impression that only magazine reviewers voted, rather that their reviews, which appear to have been somewhat cursory, probably swayed Joe Public that there was little wrong with the models. This is, as you well know, a problem that has been with us for as long as I can remember and there is no remedy whilst the finances of magazines are so dependant on the revenue from advertisers. Most people do not have the knowledge to decide if a model is accurate, they simply vote for the model they wanted the most, regardless of the accuracy, especially if they have not read any adverse reviews and it does not fall off the track. As long as companies make the most popular model on the lengthy wishlists they can pretty much get away with anything and still win an award. In my opinion the standards to which some of the largest manufacturers work these days seems little better than 50 years ago in spite of modern technology which is supposed to be able to speed up and improve design and tooling. In addition the availabilty of information and access to preserved items has made research many times easier than 50 years ago. Bachmann only produced this model a couple of years ago, even the use of a tape measure and a camera on a preserved van and a drawing board would have given them all the information they needed, let alone the access they have to laser scanners and CAD design. .It seems as though if a rivet is misplaced on a loco, all hell is let loose but getting 70% of all the "rivets" misplaced and various important dimensions wrong on a wagon is not even considered worth a mention.and thus the manufacturers make little or no attempt to improve their products. It would be interesting to see what would happen if say Dapol or Hornby decided to duplicate the Bachmann brake van, making it quite clear that they are making a superior model. Loco duplication is rife so why not do the same for other items if a much better product is possible.. Perhaps I should invest in persuading Dapol to scale down their 7mm model, provided I could be sure all of it's errors were corrected. That would put the cat among the pigeons although Bachmann might retaliate of course.. Regards all adrianbs

Hi The signal engineer, Absolutely correct about the chamfers which mainly applies to the 2+2 vans but even so I would have preferred them to be about 30-40% narrower and the even plank variant would, in dead scale, have such thin grooves as to be almost invisible. Probably in real life it would not have been possible to get a 5P piece between the planks. This would be less than about 1/1000th of an inch in 4mm, i.e. about the thickness of a hair !!! Even reducing the grooves by 40% would probably be well overscale for the chamferred planks and 70% for the even planked variant.. When I look at my old Hornby Dublo Fruit D, a model which is now well over 50 years old, Meccano were perfectly able to produce planks with realistic widths and also put the nuts in the right places as well. On that basis the Fruit D would have won the Model of the Year had it been in competition with the Bachmann brake van. even with its antiquated diecast chassis. So much for progress !! To add insult to injury it now appears that Bachmann are about to have a 20% average increase in their prices as of now !! I thought I was being a bit over the top this year by increasing my prices for the first time in 3 years by just over 10%. My kit prices have fallen steadily over the last 40 years by comparison with RTR from a point where they were about 350% more than an equivalent RTR wagon to a point now where they are about the same or less. Maybe the tide will turn soon and people will only be able to afford to buy kits if Bachmann's price predictions for the next 5 years are correct. A scary thought as I will have have fully retired by then even if I last that long and unless someone else takes up the baton that will seen them disappear. Regards adrianbs

Hi all Please be aware that their are 3 distinct variants of Warflats used in the UK in both military and Big 4 / BR ownership. The first series are those built in WW1 for the carriage of the early first war tanks. They were not used much in the UK as the Lozenge shaped tanks were out of gauge but were shipped to France where the Loading gauge was rather more generous. In the UK, tanks of all designs were normally carried in the shallow well of Rectanks After 1918 they were loaned out to the railways and some were sold to the LNWR (25) and painted in that company's livery after being fitted with 4 Bolsters. After 1923 many more were sold to the LMS and again fitted with Bolsters but of a lower design. They could also be used as Flat wagons. There is a problem with the use of these wagons as the decking is relatively thin planking, mainly intended so that the officer directing tank loading had something to walk on, hence their conversion to Bolster wagons. Heavy point loads were prohibited unless they were carried by the substantial pressed steel side members which, of course, were where the tank tracks ran. These wagons plus the ex LNWR ones were all painted LMS grey till about 1936 and then LMS bauxite until BR days when of course being unfitted they reverted to BR light grey. The end jacks were removed by the LMS and a plate substituted behind the buffer although without the plate on the LNWR ones which had a different buffer. As far as I know none of these wagons were upgraded to Vacuum brake in this country but some remained in France and were either Air braked or piped (not sure which) and one was in the museum in Mulhouse. A few survived.in departmental use and were vac piped. This design only had brakeshoes on the bogie nearest the handbrake wheel. At the beginning of WW2 a futher batch of about 100 were built pretty much to the same design but these were improved with air and vac brakes, screw couplings and a new design "International" style buffer. The diamond bogie geometry was marginally altered to permit the use of 2'9" wheels on the Warwells These two designs are distinguished by having pressed steel side members made by Leeds Forge and only a few rivets. In fact almost all the chassis is made from pressed steel cross members and additional pressed steel longitudinals. These wagons could only carry about 40 tons and were presumably owned initially by the MOD and were Khaki. They were all sold off shortly after the war and being fitted may have been in BR Bauxite from the start. The third type was an uprated 50Ton version of type 2 with the outer girders replaced with built up rivetted sections, although internally the structure remained as per the previous designs. These initially remained in military ownership as they could carry the Centurion but not in the UK. Many were shipped to Germany and fitted with side extensions to accomodate the wider tanks. Others remained here for smaller tracked vehicles. Eventually many were transferred to BR and have been modified for quite a number of uses, particularly steel coil traffic. They are easily distiguished as the side members have hundreds of rivets, Livery should have been BR bauxite but some may have been grey like their older siblings although in later years it was not easy from an distance to tell if the colour was paint or rust. adrianbs