locoholic

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

So what? That's just the same as the "HS" in HST!

High speed is (generally) applied to 125mph or faster, which whatever top speed it was going to be was "high speed".

So you're arguing that the Great Western Mainline is actually HS4?

I wonder sometimes just how desperately bad a rail scheme would have to be before some people on here would admit it was no good.

1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Spot On.

 

But, when you look at much of the more recent HS2 PR output, it does focus on capacity. Perhaps it is more likely that the news rooms at the Beeb, ITV and others have been infiltrated, or far more likely, the more outspoken Home Counties MP's and, even less-voted-for MEP's who use HS2 as yet another cause-celebre, where an understanding of the critical issues involved, matters far less than air-time, to make a controversial statement with which bloke-down-the-pub can readily recognise the fault of HS2 in his/her inability to afford a bigger TV or summat.

 

As has been pointed out on here before, people know that the "HS" in HS2 stands for High Speed. Trying to claim it's now all about capacity simply reminds people that the project has suffered from mission creep, which prompts nagging doubts about sub-optimal design and desperate political spin to make the line sound less like a vanity project. And that's before people think about all the budget overspends and missed deadlines of other high profile rail projects like Crossrail and the GWML electrification.

4 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Whatever service pattern emerges for the WCML in a post HS2 world will be shaped by what transport campaigners, councils, current commuters want - not just what is most convenient for the rail industry.

But there are many, many examples where convenience for the rail industry or the DfT completely overrule what passengers and other stakeholders want.

2 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Such a statement depends on what you mean by value.

 

There is a saying first used in the 1890s which stated a cynic was 'a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

Far too many of those stating HS2 is 'bad' value for money seem obsessed with monetary value - when as with all such large projects money only tells a small part the story. many of the things we treasure these days like the NHS are actually very poor momentary value (its far more cost effective to let terminally ill people die as soon as possible rather than try and prolong their life with expensive drugs) - yet as a society we deem this as a desirable thing.

 

Similarly its poor monetary value to try and prevent people acquiring motor cars (all that money which has to be spent taxing, insuring, repairing them generates large amounts of business activity / tax receipts) yet if we want to try and help curtail pollution and the need to build ever more roads preventing motor car acquisition is the way to go).

 

HS2 provides essential capacity which has the potential to allow for large modal shift to take place - it might well look poor to the Been counters - but when approached from a holistic angle, it actually comes out rather well.

 

 

I'm afraid that's just meaningless waffle, and a very woolly  justification for spending billions of pounds of taxpayers' money.

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I didn't say I endorsed it, I said that they would have a no-nonsense approach. It all depends on whether you think infrastructure building is important. If you do, then get on with it. If not, then don't bother. What we do is say it's important and then faff around trying to keep everyone happy even when this requires taking diametrically opposed positions at the same time resulting in delays and massive extra expense.

 

History note: To build the railway through Leamington Spa, one of the buildings demolished was the orphanage. The Victorians took a very similar approach to the Chinese when getting things done. Was this also a " repressive communist one-party state" ? 

Silly - communism hadn't been invented. You now instead seem to be praising a time when most people weren't allowed to vote - a small price to pay for getting infrastructure projects bulldozed through without opposition! The point is that you seem to be irritated by the fact that the UK has progressed to a stage where ordinary people have a voice and don't just have to mutely accept things. HS2 isn't funded in the Victorian way, by gullible shareholders voluntarily buying shares. Taxpayers have no option but to cough up and to most, HS2 looks increasingly like very bad value for money.

8 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

And yet when I talk to people involved with scheduling trains in real life, they are desperate for more rail capacity and can't see any other way of providing it than a new line. As others have said, we can't upgrade the WCML more, and when we try it causes chaos.

 

My feeling is that if the project doesn't start in London then it doesn't happen. The idea that the money should be spread out to local transport means that the north would gain half a dozen bus stops and the rest of the cash would evaporate into consultancy fees and MPs expenses. At least this way, something gets built.

 

Cost overruns are due to it being built by the British. Were the Chinese to do it, a pear tree local to me, voted the greatest tree ever by anti-HS2 protesters, would have been flattened. Instead, it's been cloned and grafted, all at our expense. I bet the rest of the project is full of this sort of thing. If you want the project on time and on budget - get on with it and ignore the woolly moaners trying to keep this country in the 18th Century. Medium term, people will be happier because they won't have uncertainty (something Heathrow has caused for decades) over future works. It's not nice if your home or business is directly affected, but better get it over with quickly and move on than having to endure years of worry.

It comes to something when a person's passion for anything that runs on rails means they endorse the working practices of a repressive communist one-party state.

On 8 May 2019 at 11:55, Oldddudders said:

....Modellers generally like to have models of successful and charismatic locos - vide the eternally buoyant sales of pacifics, despite few of us having the space to stretch their legs  - and the 74 was thus a niche product, as confirmed by the lack of orders at a time when DJM was still regarded as a good bet. 

The success of some other "niche" RTR diesel models (Clayton, NBL D600s, Class 14, Class 16, Falcon, Lion, etc) says otherwise. Some locos are hopeless failures but still somehow charismatic. I would like an RTR Class 74. After the issues with his Class 71 and 14xx I had definite qualms about DJ Models, which have subsequently proved to be well-founded. Maybe I wasn't alone, and that's why there weren't many orders for the loco? I'm hoping that some Hornby Class 71s make it to the bargain bin, so I can have a go at converting one to a Class 74.

Last weekend I took a few pictures of the depot at Aberdeen Waterloo.

The wagons look to me like the "Silver Bullets" used for china clay traffic. Does anyone know what they're used for at Aberdeen, please?

The Northern powerhouse already exists - in Scotland.

I rarely venture north of the border, and last weekend was astonished to find there are now FIVE modern electrified rail routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh (via Lenzie, Cumbernauld, Bathgate, Shotts and Carstairs)!

That is a level of investment that northern England can only dream of. The answer would seem to be to devolve powers from Westminster to a northern regional assembly. One thing's for sure - the current set-up is delivering nothing, nor does it look likely to in the future.

If the Scots compare the situations north and south of the border, no wonder they want independence!

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/police-to-travel-aboard-flying-scotsman-to-deter-fans-from-tracks-1-4924419

48 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Regarding the section I have italicised. Some years ago a couple at Milliken Park station (Glasgow/Ayr) line were walking along one platform to reach the footbridge and cross to the other platform to catch their train. They saw a train headlight in the distance and thinking it was their train, jumped down onto the track to get across quicker to ensure they caught it. Unfortunately it was actually a non-stopping service and struck them at around 90mph. The outcome can only be described as horrific, in fact so much so that one of the area response staff was unable to deal with the incident. Regardless of the stupidity of their actions I would not wish the result on them, the railway and other staff involved in the clear-up, and anyone who happened to witness it.

 

 

Of course, the only possible conclusion to draw from this tragic tale in our zero-risk society is that the old-fashioned design of railway station with unfenced platform edges is fundamentally unsafe and should be abolished forthwith.

Whilst I have tremendous sympathy for the staff and emergency services faced with such a situation, it must be remembered that similarly horrific scenarios are an everyday occurrence on our roads, but strangely these attract much, much less publicity and are regarded as an unavoidable fact of life.

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It's not for the jobsworths so much as the fact that the wider public are no longer that familiar with slam doors and droplights and may not be aware of the risks they can pose. By leaning out in a relatively safe situation you're setting an example to someone who doesn't know the risks involved suggesting that it's ok to do that, and then they may do it when it's not safe to do so.

 

Plus why bother flailing at a station? I could understand if it was a Western/ 45/ 50 climbing a hill or something, but there's nothing I can think of worth flailing at on tickover.

Who was "flailing?" I was just looking along the train to see the loco. Incidentally, in the course of the whole twelve hours there was not one single chance to get a decent photo of the loco. The station staff at Aberdeen seemed to derive immense satisfaction from preventing access to the other platforms, and the empty stock for the return journey appeared at the platform only a minute before the scheduled departure time. And then of course there was the diesel on the back, which did a considerable amount of work during the trip.

In today's paper there's a story about "bored"children train surfing. Now there's a risky activity. 

32 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If the rule is "don't lean out of the window" then that is clear and enforceable to everyone. If you start creating exceptions then it opens the door for liberties to be taken, misunderstandings to occur, and someone to lean out of the window on a non-platform side and have their head taken off. And too many of those will lead to the removal of all droplight fitted carriages from the network.

That is exactly the idiotic mentality that is so annoying - ignore the actual situation in order to make it easier for the jobsworths. There is no risk whatsoever from leaning out of a stationary train window at a platform, but we'll ban it anyway. That is only one step away from insisting that every passenger remains seated for the duration of the journey, except for when they absolutely must go to the toilet. In fact, we'll install lockable seat belts to make absolutely sure.

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Do you hold a PTS card?  And by which I mean a proper Network Rail one, not just a lineside pass for a preserved railway? 

 

It sounds like the message will never get through to some...

It can be quite annoying when someone thinks that just because they're in possession of a card they have a monopoly on wisdom. 

I would hope that I would never put myself in a position where the driver of an oncoming train would be caused alarm. But the railway still has places where that happens even though no-one is trespassing, such as at footpath crossings and crowded platforms. I don't envy train drivers in those situations, but the railway is not some kind of magic environment where human nature can be counteracted by fences, rules or cards.

Recently there was a spate of incidents in my area of children at night lying down in the road in front of oncoming cars to give the drivers a fright. Amazingly, no-one was hurt, but it illustrates the bizarre thought processes that occur in some people's minds. I'm sure those children would have been mucking around by our local railway line if Dr Beeching hadn't closed it 54 years ago. Maybe that's the best way of ensuring no railway accidents - close the railways? When was the last railway fatality in Iceland, after all?

27 minutes ago, Andrew Young said:

 

Jim,

 

What do you count this as?

 

 

That’s my train in the background, 1S47 and this was two I found. I should’ve been doing 125mph at this point until the Signalman put the signal back to red.

 

At the next bridge I found two more on this side of the railway in a similar position. And four adults with four boys in a similar position on the down side.

 

After finding three lots, I stopped where I was until Scotsman went past. The driver on 1V06 found people in similar positions at every bridge and access point from Willington to Tamworth. 

 

I do wish the general public woukd grasp that a fence is there for a reason and to stay off the railway.

 

Andrew

I think that photo is proof that the Tamworth area has more than its fair share of stupid people.

Who took the photo?

4 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Rule 1 - you are ultimately responsible for your own actions.

 

Jim

But technically I could have been thrown off the train for doing something that is not even remotely risky!

A significant amount of the railway network is now hidden behind six-foot high security fencing, installed at a cost of many millions of pounds, the cost of which is ultimately borne by passengers, freight users and the taxpayers. Anyone who manages to get past that deserves to be prosecuted, as there is no ambiguity as to its function.

As I've posted elsewhere, however, there are situations where very significant risks are still present. A crowded, narrow platform with non-stop trains passing at 70mph or more felt very unsafe indeed to me yesterday. 

Yesterday I was told off for leaning out of the window of a Mark 1 carriage on a railtour - whilst the train was stationary at a booked platform stop, and the window I was leaning out of was adjacent to said platform. I've been trying, but I simply can't think of any risk attached to this activity at all.

This is in marked contrast to the situation at the start of the railtour, when several hundred people were crammed onto the very narrow platform at Linlithgow, with trains passing at line speed (75mph?) just inches away. The potential risks of that situation were very serious indeed, but apparently that is acceptable.

What has gone wrong? Why is there such a big gap between actual risks in reality and nonsensical rules?

12 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

So he’s lost the potential for income from some stuff he’s designed and/or had people copy his designs and has tried to do something about it.

 

Can someone summarise the 21 pages of waffle in case I’ve missed something relevant?

To summarise; someone with delusions of grandeur and competence has issued statements which confirm he's actually a bit of a pillock.

A good few years ago I discussed with an established model manufacturer the possibility of commissioning a version of one of their models in a different, more popular scale. A couple of months in, DJ Models announced they were going to do the same model. As that suddenly increased the financial risk considerably, I pulled the plug on my project, even though "my" manufacturer reckoned that DJ was not credible.

How I now wish I had taken the gamble and pushed ahead with the project!

PS. No, it wasn't a Fell diesel.

This morning I saw Duchess of Sutherland making an impressive ascent of Llanvihangel Bank between Abergavenny and Hereford. I could swear that there was no diesel at the end of the train, but pictures of it north of Hereford show a WCR Cl 47 tacked on the back. Does anyone know if it was added at Hereford, please, or am I just very unobservant?

Are there any WCML passenger train diversions via the S&C these days?

I guess no-one on here was remotely surprised by this, which is why the news wasn't posted?!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48054789

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

 

The idea of 4 tracking (from Rugby to Brum) has been on and off the menu ever since I got interested in railways 60+ years ago

But is now presumably permanently off the menu due to HS2?

I wonder how long it will be before we have to book a space on the M25 (pre-paid, of course)? I'm sure Beardy would like to have a go at running a motorway.