dunwurken

You will be pleased to learn that Jock Armstrong, Angus MacTavish are now residents within the Edinburgh and Lothians MRC PD Hancock Collection. Despite being swept away in about 1970 to facilitate the building of the third version of Craig much of what you see in that 1967 photograph still exists albeit not all necessarily in the one place. There are a number of bicycles in the collection but I cannot be certain which one is the bicycle in the photo. The toolshed is now at Dundreich and the yard foreman still slumbers in a box in the ELMRC collection, the building which Jock is sitting outside is in private hands whilst the building behind is also at Dundreich albeit in a modified [by PDH] form. The coaling stage is in the collection as is the gallows turntable just off the photograph to the left. Kettledrummle and the C15 are still with us however the whereabouts of the engine shed building and that C class goods are unknown. Two of the wagons are in the collection and the dog........ah, if only it had been micro-chipped we might have found it by now! Malcolm

P D Hancock greatly admired that layout and it gets a brief mention in his book 'Narrow Gauge Adventure'. There are a few photographs of it taken by him but they are, unusually for him, too dark to reproduce, due no doubt to the poor lighting in the church hall in which it was displayed. I saw the layout myself and it was certainly impressive but the long single line sections and the resultant difficulties in keeping something moving were uneasy bedfellows. My article nominations would be 'Why Not a Narrow Gauge Layout?' in the Oct/Nov 1950 RM and 'Narrow Gauge in 4mm Scale' in the Nov 1950 MRN by PD Hancock. Too young to appreciate them at the time but they put 4mm narrow gauge modelling and freelancing on the map. Malcolm

As yes, the delights of attempting to keep an old show on the road. In view of the problems you have encountered and the forthcoming loss of the clubrooms I think you are very wise to take a step back from attending exhibitions. Is BM's original shed dry and able to be kept within a reasonable temperature range? One of the main reasons the C&MR resides at home with me rather than in the Edinburgh & Lothians clubroom is dampness and the lack of heating in the clubroom outwith club evenings. We sprang another roof leak recently, luckily was in the toilet and not over a layout! Keep up the good work. I am sure we are being watched from above by Frank, Peter Denny, PDH and others Malcolm

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before on this thread but whilst browsing on u-tube I came accross a video of a 1980's TV show on railway modelling and lo and behold there was Borchester. It starts 52 secs into the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiTWC0CuYi0 Malcolm

The April 2015 Railway Modeller contains a 3 page article entitled 'Whatever happened to Craigshire'. There is a brief history of the layout which was dismantled in 1987 followed by a resume of what happened to the layout over the years and details of what is known to survive. Dunwurken

So I take it Ian, that although you were a student in Edinburgh, you were not at Edinburgh University otherwise you would have met one of its librarians, P D Hancock, when you visited the library. You are correct the North Devonshire was broken up after Ken's death. If I remember correctly P D Hancock gave Ken one of his early standard gauge locos and he also mentions he would strech the legs of his standard gauge stock on the North Devonshire. Regretably I have not come accross any photographs of Craigshire's NBR Atlantic or one 'Glens' running on the North Devonshire. Ken also introduced PDH to pinpoint bearings in the 1950's. Both met whilst members of the Edinburgh and Lothians MRC. Malcolm

I had forgotten that one probably because it is tucked away in one of his Torlum Hill LR articles. So the tribute station would be called 'Mayfield' which was the name chosen for the THLR station instead of Mertonford. Standard gauge arrives at Mayfield which would have to be a NBR / NER station, cross the platform and get on the CMR, travel through Dundreich [where latterly trains from Craig to Mertonford and vice-versa reversed] and then take the choice of routes to Craig or Mertonford........ Might work if I had the space!! Malcolm

I have found the historical research angle absolutely fascinating. Comparing the old articles and photographs of Craigshire with what actually has survived has been a real eye opener. For instance, some small parts of the very first layout 65 years ago survive on Dundreich. I presume that partly because of the shortage of materials in the 1950's, and possibly financial constraints, both Denny and Hancock were almost forced down the road of re-cycling items. With Craigshire there are also many queries regarding the rolling stock and the research is ongoing with the narrow gauge coaches and wagons completed, ng locos and then the standard gauge to do. I too have been toying with the possibility of a new build section in order to allow Hancock to take to the exhibition circuit. There are a number of ideas but one could say, re-create the first Craigshire or alternatively build Mertonford for which one has a blank sheet of paper. The Merco paper is to hand but I now regret passing up on some of Philip's tools! I must remember these words Tony, they struck a chord with me in that if I replace Buckingham with Craigshire I would be describing Hancock exactly. He built layouts two and three very quickly and could also produce locos and rolling stock very quickly, indeed one of his model bashes was produced over a weekend at a time when Saturday mornings were still being worked! Yep, next person who complains it would take too long will find me quoting you in full. Malcolm

The original Castle Rackrent baseboards attended the Perth show last year and in order to exract the boards from the back corner of the basement it was necessary to virtually dismantle the whole layout. Rather than put everything back 'as was' the opportunity has been taken to make alterations and extensions to the layout to make life a bit easier for us old folks and allow Richard to incorporate some long planned alterations. This has also meant a new timetable for the operators to master [the previous timetable had been used for some 20 odd years but we, OK I, still got it wrong.] Should have been going for an operating session tonight but SWMBO has made other arrangements!! Malcolm

I too remember them both fondly but like Johnarcher I really remember both as basically a station with some scenery around the edges. Both inspired me as a young modeller. Out of interest both PD Hancock and John Charman were members of the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC in the 1950's and knew each other and their work quite well.Malcolm

I had not thought of it like that but your two strands theory is an interesting one and has a lot of merit. Hancock was a 'disciple' of John Ahern. Philip's opening words in his book Narrow Gauge Adventure [1st Edn.1975] are "The person really responsible for Craigshire and the Craig and Mertonford Light Railway is the late John H Ahern. It was his articles..........which fired my schoolboy imagination......" He was also unapologetic about his artistic approach to modelling and his freelance style. A couple of quotes from the RM March 1954 "In my own case I have been guided by a desire to produce a scenic picture acting as a frame to a small narrow gauge railway.........In short, I resigned myself to being a 'model basher' pure and simple and have made no effort to stick to scale or prototype........." That said, later when Craigshire was moved back in time to 1912 he started producing standard gauge stock appropriate to the period and setting however he would still, on ocassion, go off at a tangent!! I fully agree with you Stokes should be given more credit and I think is in danger of being overlooked. I had thought I had made it clear that the challenges of modelling at that time applied to them all. If that was not clear let me say I do agree with you the challeges applied to all three. Malcolm

Charlie Superb. Great to see the backside of the layout. Keep up the superb work and above all exhibiting. It has been suggested to me I should write a book on P D Hancock and the Craig and Mertonford but those suggesting it failed to realise I am no great shakes with the keyboard so I passed on that preferring like yourself to keep matters ticking along on the appropriate forums. Worry not about the rubbish you may read about the layout. The layouts of Dyer, Denny, Hancock etc were products of their time as the hobby moved out of the dark ages into a period of enlightenment. I find the adverse comments are normally borne out of ignorance by younger modellers who do not realise the difficulties faced by the Dyers, Dennys and Hancocks of this world who post WW2 had little of quality [by today's standards] ready to run, few kits or indeed parts to assist scratchbuilding. Younger members of the hobby in this day and age of instant gratification are used to being able to buy virtually everything they need for a layout from one manufacture or another; not so in the 1950/60s. I find that if they take the time to find out a bit more about the trials and tribulations faced by these modellers then they are a bit more appreciative of what is being exhibited to them. Malcolm

'Tis my understanding Don sold the layout a few years ago. Malcolm

Thank you both for your detailed replies. I will not take up space on this, the Borchester, topic to give a detailed account of the problems that confronted myself with Dundreich, [another time and another place] but suffice to say I was smiling through both your replies as I recognised many of the problems you were / are confronted with and your response to them. I have not had to untangle the spaghetti as PD Hancock latterly kept his wiring simple, very simple for which I, as a ‘non electrical’ person, am eternally grateful. In one form or another many of the problems you have both faced have been faced by myself and dealt with in a similar manner and there is nothing in either of your replies I would not have done myself or would have done differently if I had been confronted with a similar problem. For what it is worth, I heartily agree with your conservation / sympathetic restoration approach and am pleased to report Hancock is in step with Denny and Dyer. Having examined Dundreich and found it could be made operable again the decision as to whether it should be stuffed and mounted as a static diorama or returned to an operable condition was an easy one to take and I am glad to say much appreciated by Dundreich’s former owner, Lee Marsh, who not only knew PDH very well but inherited Dundreich and the Craigshire rolling stock from him before in turn donating Dundreich to the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC. Unlike yourselves, who could speak to and get some guidance from the Dyer and Denny families, PDH had no close family and Lee attached no conditions when he donated Dundreich. That said I think it would be fair to say both Lee and others who have donated to the E&LMRC were hoping that if they donated to PD’s old club the artefacts would be cherished and cared for and I know Lee is pleased with what we have done so far. Something that is not a problem for me is running the layout to a timetable. If there was one for the third re-incarnation of Craigshire it has not survived. What we do know is that narrow gauge trains arriving at Dundreich from Craig were supposed to be reversed and sent to back via a junction [grand word for a set of points!] towards Mertonford as Dundreich was a dead end. For numerous reasons this method of operation is not currently a practical proposition [although it may be possible in the future depending on how far the rebuilding of Craigshire is taken] so the track arrangement at Dundreich was discreetly altered to accommodate through running. Before I get hung, drawn and quartered I would add that at the time Craigshire was broken up one of the incomplete alterations was the turning of Dundreich into a through station so in some ways we merely completed something PDH had started. One thing I am doing as I go along is recording the work with before and after photographs and a making a note of the reasoning behind the changes. That I appreciate may be impracticable for larger layouts. I said in an earlier post we I seem to have got off lightly with Dundreich but the remainder of Craigshire is much more of a problem. It is not a case of sympathetic restoration but complete rebuilding as only the buildings, well most of them [anyone seen Peter Allans factory?], a bundle of 2nd hand track, the glass for Craig harbour and scenic details survive, enough to tempt one to do it but enough missing to give one serious doubts about proceeding. The question is very much on the back burner for the time being. Like Tony I feel highly honoured to be able to spend time working on a layout I greatly admired whilst an impressionable youth. I sometimes have to pinch myself that I am actually running my own models on the hallowed tracks of the Craig and Mertonford and to have had access to the original rolling stock for the 009 Society’s 40th Anniversary bash last year was just the icing on the cake. The time and effort put into getting Dundreich operable for that event was most rewarding and whilst further work, mostly of a cosmetic nature, is required I am, for the time being, cataloguing books and papers that once belonged to PDH. I then need to go through the various smaller scenic items, mechanisms, loco and rolling stock parts and other artefacts stored in PD’s ‘spares’ drawers if nothing else just to ascertain what is there. PDH threw nothing away! Many years of fun ahead! Malcolm

On another forum there was an interesting and slighty heated discussion regarding the pros and cons of conservation / restoration / refurbishment etc. of heritage arefacts and and I was reminded of it when I read about your problem signal. In this other place the discussion was actually about returning heritage locomotives to running order but could equally apply to the repair or replace conundrum confronting you with this signal. Needless to say views ranged from don't touch a thing as you are then destroying the work of the original creator and builder through yes, fit a new motor / chassis / bogie etc but retain the original to, do whatever is necessary as that is what the full size railway restoration guys do! Whatever you do you are between a rock and a hard place but I would be interested in learning what your guidelines / policies are regarding the conservation of Borchester and the repairs and replacements that will undoubtedly be required in the future. Malcolm

That would be some exhibition! My sentiments entirely. Might I echo your thanks to the current Borchester crew but I would also like to applaud your good self and the Buckingham crew for saving the layout and bringing it out to shows. By comparison I seem to got off lightly with 'Dundreich'. Granted it is only a 6' x 2' 6" part of Craigshire but at least the narrow gauge is operable and the standard gauge capable of being made operable. Dundreich attended the 009 Society 40th Anniversary Convention last year, its first ever public outing, and much to our relief it came through that unscathed. We also limiting future exhibitions and treating it with great care and respect! May I also add my apologies for hijacking the thread. Malcolm

With the exception of Castle Rackrent I cannot say whether or not any of the layouts still exist. However I can confirm both Richard Chown and Castle Rackrent are still with us and a little bird tells me that Castle Rackrent could be at the Perth MRC show in June 2014 celebrating 40 years since its first exhibition. Malcolm

Today I posted the undernoted entry in the topic where there has been some discussion regarding P D Hancock's Gleish Valley Railroad. Havng noted that the discussion regarding the 2mm Whall locos had also moved over to this topic I am duplicating the entry here. "I am told that the Gleish Valley Railroad, or at least part of it, survived in P D Hancock's loft but whether it was disposed of by PDH himself in later life or whether it was bequethed in his will to a beneficiary I do not know. I have also been told that PDH may have had two other 2mm Whall built locos in addition to the C14. If so whereabouts unknown, at least to me. Malcolm" To explain my interest I am a member of the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC and am custodian of the P D Hancock artefacts which have been placed in the care of the club. The primary interest is PD Hancock's pioneering work, particularily 4mm narrow and standard gauge, however the club collection includes books, papers, photographs and some of the 7mm items from the later version of the Craig and Mertonford. The 2mm C14 was in P D Hancock's possession up to the time he went into a nursing home and I would be interested to learn of its current whereabouts. Malcolm

I am told that the Gleish Valley Railroad survived in P D Hancock's loft but whether it was disposed of by PDH himself in later life or whether it was bequethed in his will to a beneficiary I do not know. I have also been told that PDH may have had two other 2mm Whall built locos in addition to the C14. If so whereabouts unknown, at least to me. Malcolm

The chassis illustrated in the 1950 MRN is Alistair's. PD in the MRN June 1953 on p114 states in an article on Alistair and Ian ' The second locomotive [Alistair] was built for me commercially, and the chassis, by Cherry's Ltd., was illustrated in the MRN as long ago as 1950.' I am told the 8mm gauge was the result of a misunderstanding. The body was built by H B Whall. Malcolm

'Dundreich' attended the 009 Society 40th Anniversary Convention at Kegworth 27th/29th Sept 2013. A fantastic event which has been highly praised elsewhere. The 'Roving Reporter' Mick Thornton was busy all weekend and has recently published on his blog hundreds of photos from the Convention. PART 4 of his convention report is devoted to Dundreich and for those interested in the work of P D Hancock I suggest you visit his blog at http://micksrovingreporter.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/27-29-september-2013-009-society-40th_8060.html This was the first time any part of the Craig and Mertonford had been publicily exhibited as the layout was built within P D Hancocks bedroom in 1950 and was dismantled in 1987 when he moved house. Not only was the largest remaining part of the layout displayed but many of the original locos and rolling stock were also to be seen running including the 60 year old 'Alistair'. Malcolm

There have been a number of posts elsewhere on this forum discussing or seeking information about old layouts and on looking back to this particular topic I was surprised to note that it was a year ago I last posted so an update is required. The Edinburgh & Lothians MRC and myself have added and continue to add to our respective collections which for brevity I call the 'P D Hancock Collection'. The major artefact in the collection is that part of the Craigshire / Craig and Mertonford Railway featuring 'Dundreich' station and in the past six months work has been focused on conservation and restoration in what I hope is a sympathetic and reverential way. The layout has been cleaned and damaged items and scenery repaired and the trains can again run on its tracks. To provide long term stability it has been necessary to mount the layout on a new frame [and legs as the layout sat on the top of furniture at PD's home] and to provide additional support and protection a backscene [painted pale blue to represent the colour of PD's bedroom walls] has been added. Dundreich will be attending the 009 Society's 40th Anniversary Convention in September so in order to provide for the running of through trains two turntable fiddle yards have been constructed and fitted to either end of the layout. Photos of much of what has been added to the collection since last July can be found at: - Edit - photos moved into a Google archive: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/112904466287746079405?source=pwa The whereabouts of the locos and rolling stock is known and it is hoped to have some of the locos running at the 009 Society Convention. Further updates in due course. Malcolm

Sorry to say none of the locos are with the 009 Society. In the past PD himself lent some models to the Society but the ones you see in the Society showcase, namely Duncan and Moira, belong to Rod Allcock who has also constructed a replica of the diesel, Joan, and is currently working on a replica of Ian. If my memory serves me correctly the 009 Society only own one C&MR wagon. Malcolm

MarkSG There are published colour photographs of Craig in the RM Dec 1979, Apr 1980, Jan and Feb 1993 and in a RM special, Famous Layouts in 1990. All the RM colour photos were taken by PD himself in 1979 and the originals are now with the E&LMRC. The photos in my Picassa Gallery are the first time such close up pictures have been available and were taken for to assist the E&LMRC cataloguing its collection. Pacific231G PD was influenced by John Ahern however the two men only ever met once or twice during their lifetimes. PD was modelling almost to the end and had a small railway in his room at the nursing home in his final days. With regard to the E&LMRC in the 1950's it was indeed a golden age with its founder W Loch Kidston [a founder of the O Gauge Guild and was involved in the early days of Scalefour/P4], PD Hancock [Craig and Mertoford], John Charman [Charford], Ken Northwood [North Devonshire] and the club President, Sir Eric O Hutchison who had been writing in the MRN since its inception in 1925. There was also a young Don Rowland who is still with us and working in Scalefour. Malcolm

He died on June 28th 2011 in the nursing home where he was then living There was a very good speech at his funeral quoted in full here. http://www.rmweb.co....h=1#entry432484 I don't know when he stopped modelling but I don't think it was many years before his death. Philip Hancock was born in 1928 and lived for almost his entire life in Edinburgh where he was a well respected academic librarian. He started building the Craig and Mertonford in 1950 and was contributing articles on narrow gauge modelling and modelling in general to Railway Modeller and MRN almost as soon as he started modelling. The first article by P.D. Hancock that I have is a description and very good drawing of a small motor coaster in MRN in April 1950 that refers to his 4mm scale layout but not that it was NG. A plan of the CMR first appears in MRN in November 1950 when the layout was in its early stages of construction but he refers back to an article about the loco "Dunedin" in July 1949 that I don't have. He said in his book that he was very inspired by John Ahern's articles that he'd first read in 1947 so it's interesting that a couple of years later his own articles were appearing alongside John Ahern's in MRN. The article "Return to Craig" in RM Nov 2001 was PD's last article. Articles on the Torlum Hill Light Railway appeared in the RM in Jun 1991 and May 1996 and in the RM Mar 1999 he was the author of the article on the Peter Kinnear's Strathmore Railway. PD's first article on 'Reflected Light' appeared in the Apr 1948 MRN so his writings spanned 53 years. There may have been an article and/or photographs in the Garden Rail magazine but I do not have access to copies of that publication so I cannot give details. The Edinburgh and Lothians MRC and myself now own much of what remains of the Craig and Mertonford layout. I am a member of the club and am acting as custodian of the their PD Hancock collection which includes some of PD's books and photographs. Whilst I own some OO standard gauge rolling stock from Craig what one would regard as the iconic locos from the layout both narrow and standard gauge are not in the ownership of the club or myself [and we are missing a few key buildings from Craig]! With regard to Dunedin I do have a copy of that article and can confirm much of the body survives and the chassis I seem to recall was used under Ian which also survived up to the time of PD's demise. Photos of much of what survives can be viewed in my gallery: - https://picasaweb.google.com/112904466287746079405?authkey=Gv1sRgCLfbrJ6D26fQkAE Work on restoring Dundreich is in hand. Malcolm