rgmichel

announcing a new technology with the potential to make the existing technology obsolete alienates large portions of enthusiasts as they feel the need to keep up with modern times.

however lest we forget....this isn't really anything new....from what I can see its really dcc just using a different carrier...?

If Bluetooth boards can be interfaced to our dcc sound equipped locomotives then we are ok.  I argued earlier that this is likely possible.  If it is not done by Bachmann, then you are right: "alienation" is the word.  However, enthusiasts have a habit of coming up with solutions.  This is not a complicated electronic problem, even if Bachmann do screw it up for some unstated commercial reasons.

Hi had a email today so I thought I would put here for you to have a look.

 

Sorry for the pic grab but can't get on the pc at the moment.

Thanks for posting this.  Its very interesting, and shows the versatility that will be available with bluetooth train control.   I am still not clear that I can add this to an existing dcc sound locomotive and retain the sound features.  I need to do more homework I think.

Don't forget the competitions! This month you could win a P2. It's a difficult question though: who was the successor of Chief Mechanical Engineer, Michael Gresley? I don't even know which railway had a Michael Gresley as CME.

Amateurs!

Horlicks - haven't read the latest mag as I have the download option and it is stored on my tablet for a long journey, but you are being a bit unfair and melodramatic/hyperbolic.

 

I could not possibly disagree with your viewpoint on some of the benefits of Hornby's collector club, but the magazine itself, taken on its own, is amateurish, and is not a patch on Bachmann's efforts.  Certainly, the club discount allows purchases from the Hornby website, but still such purchases are not really at competitive prices compared to Hornby dealers.  Just because the magazine is so shiny does not make it worthwhile, so I stick to my view the magazine is a disaster for most modellers.   Hornby is an established professional organization that should be able to do better, especially in competition with Bachmann.  On the "club" models, it is significant that I have only once bought the Hornby club model, and regretted it instantly it arrive on my door mat, but I have repeatedly, albeit not every year, bought Bachmann's club models, which are always real models, of intriguing prototypes, not toys.  Also, Bachman provides a reasonably worthwhile free wagon with membership.  I will say positively that Hornby does a much better job of telling us what they are doing, and when new models are available for purchase and so on.   Bachmann is terrible in the communications department, as apart from the magazine, about all I hear from them is that they want my next year's subscription payment.

Of course, you may argue about the intended audience of the magazine, which could be for the under twelves going on the quality of the writing and the content.  In that case, its fine, although we could discuss the age cut-off point; it could be lower.  I think the magazine and club models are primarily for the young audience, and for the toy market.  That's fine, as Hornby no doubt wants that market, and my one Hornby club model can sit next to Thomas when grandchildren arrive.

I received my latest issue of the club magazine. Sadly no improvement. I would say there are less articles in this than in the version produced under the old club.

I would say you verbalize an understatement.  I would go far as to say the magazine displays the total lack of imagination of the producers involved, and is a disaster.  The Hornby club is nothing more than a way to obtain our email addresses to send us ads.

 

I have never seen prices listed without VAT - only the Hornby Collectors' Club discount of 10% (and that doesn't always get set). When I actually placed an order, (already seeing the 10% discount when I added the item to the shopping cart) my credentials were lost and this discount was not applied, nor was the VAT removed.

Its this type of confusion that can be so easily avoided if the final screen, before the payment screen, would show the subtraction of the discount and VAT and so on, so we know where we stand.   As I said earlier, its a strange website.  Totally schizophrenic instead of just going on the shipping address to decide whether or not VAT should be subtracted.  Of course, the fact that VAT is often automatically included in the British price is a bit anachronistic too.  Its better, I think, to show taxes separately, instead of disguising the sticky hand of government.

 

It's subtle but anytime a link points to Hornby.com rather than specifically Hornby.com/uk-en/ there will be problems of some kind.  For me, "Hornby.com" almost always resolves to "Hornby.com/us-en"

I agree, it does that for me too.  I don't believe its a cookie issue; its just the design of the website.  My problem is the design, not whether or not it is working correctly.  I like a final screen with all costs, discounts etc, on one page, and then I can pay.  As things are right now, I am always a bit unsure whether or not I received my deductions, discounts,etc., on the page BEFORE Hornby wants my money!  Usually, I find that everything works in the end, its just the uncertainty of the site that's the problem.

 

Their website is a royal pain in the neck (for people in the US) after they relaunched their USA site. It constantly navigates to "us-en" versions of the site. The only way to get to some pages, (including the club page), is to manually change URLs to "uk-en" versions.

I agree.  The website does not remember us, only that we are based in the USA.  I do wish it would remember, and dump me in the UK site instead.  Its strange anyway that the USA website has a different, quite small range of products.  Its all very schizo.

Its a strange website altogether.  I don't like the way it messes withe prices before you come to pay.  I want to do the checkout, then see all the discounts, including the collectors' club discount and the discount for ROW VAT, and the free shipping for orders over £100, etc.  These days we expect web sites to work in a particular way, and having one that is so different is off-putting.  Last time I went to the site, I gave up and did not make the purchase.

I have the welcome pack in the USA.  Had it for a week or two.  Looks like we have a new 10% code every month, but its up there on the web site anyway.

I agree that Bachmann does a much better job of their magazine.  On the other  hand, Hornby does a much better job of keeping us informed on the availability of new products.

There's no need to change the title as the other "system" that's been injected to this topic is a completely different type of product, requiring the purchase of lots of proprietary equipment. A total antithesis to the Bachmann and BlueRail Trains, which promises to do away with expensive dedicated control hardware .

I agree with this comment, in the sense that Bluetooth allows standardization of equipment.  I do not think it is constructive to belittle the "injected" (sic) topic, as its injection served to highlight the advantages of the bluetooth approach, which is a useful addition to the discussion.

In that case perhaps the title of the thread should be amended.

It seems self-evident to me, and certainly the progress of the discussion has been largely on the implications of Bluetooth control, so a change in title seems hardly necessary.  Indeed, I am not sure I can change the title.

Hornby have always done a great job in keeping in touch with its customers, but recent emails are even better.  The "Engine Shed" is great.   I enjoyed watching the new King go round Hornby's test track, for example.  I do admit to being a bit confused by the discounting process, but it does in fact work on the web site.  I usually check by going in anonymously first, then as a club member and so on.  It is more complicated for those of us in the ROW as VAT is subtracted too, and that needs to be checked.

Sorry folks, but I thought this thread is about the Bachmann and BlueRail Trains Bluetooth base system and not about or for promoting Protocab?

While, Northhighlander has posted something that looks a bit like an ad, it seems relevant to the ongoing discussion, I think.  This thread, started by me, was stimulated by Bachmann's Bluetooth offering, but I intended it to be a discussion about the "implications" of  that offering.  This allows quite a wide ranging discussion, including subjects such as battery powered radio controlled locomotive systems that can be controlled with a smart phone.

Try

http://www.protocab.com/products

I took a glance at the site.  This looks like radio control of battery powered locomotives using 2.4GHz, similar to the US site discussed earlier in this topic.  The locomotive chips are shown, together with appropriate controllers.  In future an app will be available for a smart phone to communicate with the locomotive.   indeed, this is quite close to the ongoing discussion.  In this topic we have primarily been discussing a dcc system, power from the track, where the locomotive with its existing dcc decoder, including sound in all likelihood, has an added Bluetooth communications chip to interface a smart phone or smart pad.  The  key difference, I think, is that the ongoing discussion focuses on retention of dcc protocols, with communications handled by Bluetooth grafted onto the existing dcc control chip in the locomotive.

Wonderful explanation.  This is pretty much as I understood when I talked to the Bachmann representative at the Amherst show.  I am very happy to see it explained in such a careful way.  Certainly, I agree that the conspiracy theories are put to rest here.

It is possible for a small manufacturers to avoid the patent and licencing issues but it means not using bluetooth!. You can use the same 2.4Ghz band as bluetooth with model plane/drone/car/boat technology. The problem is it is not bluetooth which, of course, is the big idea that Bachmann grabbed.

I was involved in a discussion at OOlivesteamclub where a radio control system for a car was discussed as a control system for Hornby Live Steam (FYI)  Anything is possible, of course.  However, Bluetooth allows the use of iOS and similar for control, which is more standard.

I am not talking about emulation.  Its just a matter of using the present physical connector, which transmits signals to the motor, and takes signals from the track, to take signals from the bluetooth board, and have the daughter board pass such signals to either the sound board to make the sounds, or to the decoder to drive the motor.  No emulation required.  Bluetooth is only a communications protocol, and the existing decoder will do the work.  I think this is what you are saying later in your discussion, but it is not emulation.  Emulation would have another board take over the duties of the existing boards, which is not what I suggest.  Indeed, it would mean throwing away the existing electronics in our dcc sound locomotives, which is a waste.

What you seem to be asking for could I guess be described as a Bluetooth enabled DCC emulator chip/board.

http://www.cvpusa.com/mini_airwire_convrtr.php

You could use track power rather than a battery

I agree.  Looks good to me.  All, I want is that my dcc sound locos are not obsoleted.  This link demonstrates radio control of a dcc decoder, with a simple hookup.  The leap to Bluetooth wireless is small, and the leap to picking up the power from the track is small too.

Not the ones I want.  But then I'm looking a long way ahead.

I guess I lost your point somewhere on the line...  Maybe I am not so prescient as you.

If some decoder manufacturer brought the appropriate circuit points to external connectable points, then that and a whole host of other features could be possible.

The connectible points are already there at the 4, 8 or 21 pin decoder socket.  I wonder if a Bluetooth wireless communications daughter board could be designed to plug into that socket, and then the original dcc sound board into that daughter board, then the Bluetooth communications should be able to send dcc commands to the original dcc sound board, and thence back to the loco.  Then it would be nice to have a switch command so that the locomotive could be switched between dcc communications via track or wireless Bluetooth communications.   Of course, if the locomotive does not have sound, things are much simpler, and you could replace the original dcc board, which is cheap and can be thrown away, with a new one that is switchable between dcc control via the track and wireless Bluetooth control.

I am still wondering if it is possible to put a daughter board on our existing dcc sound locomotives, so that dcc commands can be sent using bluetooth to our dcc locomotives.  Its going to be interesting to see how Bachmann implements this in the future, as they do seem to be saying that they plan to do something like it.

Why ? Sorry,but we are too patient.Ask yourself,when a client/customer pays for a service,is it sound business practice to keep them in limbo to this extent ? I think not.

I could not possibly disagree, but absent "prompt attention", "predictable attention" is second best.  In view of the enormous difficulties that I have buying from UK vendors of UK model railway stuff, Hornby is slow but reliable.

Hornby takes as much as 2 weeks, but they will likely give you your discount via a credit of some sort to your credit card, if you were a member at the time of the order.  Usually, I can rely on their reply; it just takes time.

I think patience is in order here.  Hornby always seem to take a few days or longer to respond to any inquiry, but they always respond in my experience.

it sounds as if the remainder of the class did not venture any further west than Newton Abbot, shames as l d have loved to have seen one working further west to Plymouth!  Now I ll need to find another excuse to own a Hornby Star!

I needed no excuse, but you are right, a bit of dreaming and imagination is necessary to do the trick.