Hendreladis

Thank you so much Michael and yup, that's exactly what has happened. More questions I am afraid. So do you form the bends on a 'whole' sheet of footplate material, attach to the frames and then remove the necessary cut outs for wheels etc? Are said bends formed by pressing annealed sheet on to a hard former that matches the frame profile whereby the metal assumes the correct shape? Or are you reliant on the skills of a lifetime to use bending rolls or similar in such a way that you can accurately coordinate the various curves of the mating surfaces without having to do too much tweaking when it comes time to solder up? From a 2mm perspective this attempt will pass muster as a test model but I want to be able to do it better for some future projects. Hence the input of the more experienced is truly appreciated. I prefer to bodge rather than making jigs but, if that is what needs to be done, I'll bite the bullet. Andrew

Some of you Midland modellers have produced curved frame locos over the years and I'd be interested to learn how you managed to form the footplates. I bodged a sub-optimal but, as far as this project is concerned, adequate one for the model in the picture but I'd be interested to learn how others do things. Do you create a solid former and then press the footplate to that or, as I did, anneal a strip and overlay it over the frames soldering, pressing and curving from one end to the other? Some of the bends haven't ended up as clean as I'd have liked.

You've only got one gloat cabinet? And it is well organised? And you can actually find stuff? But that would make you productive. Wish I was able to work in a tidier way. Your approach sounds brilliant. Painted the J63 tonight. Another nightmare. Shame I can't re-run 'the horror, the horror' again. Now I remember why I never finish things . . .

Exactly like those! Thirty minutes of gloat box rummaging confirms it.

I had a Terrier chassis that I had built a few years ago. After finding a Judith Edge J63 in the gloat box I attempted a quickie caricature. It'll suffice as a colliery shunter to back up the Peckett. Didn't like the miserable little boiler on the J63 so jacked things up to allow space for a bit more lead. Despite the diminutive size it is heavier than a Farish pannier running on an association underframe. While not strictly correct it would be possible to use the association Terrier kit, 7mm wheels and a 7mm motor as basis for a proper J63 as wb is correct. The motor sits very low in the body. If I can now locate the rest of the terrier chassis bits I'll finish off the brakegear . . .

Thank Simon. Really helpful. The problem becomes obvious when someone points out the flaw in my thinking! So presumably by failing to neutralise the active ingredient in the flux cooking it all up in an aggressive environment simply exacerbates the potential for corrosion. That explains the attack on the smaller joints presumably. The dishwasher liquid certainly does a good job of degreasing but lesson learned. Clean it all up as much as possible, rinse, neutralise the active ingredient, rinse, then degrease and rinse. Then put it all back in the gloat box for a few years and forget about it . . . In answer to your final point re a 'control' in water. Because I use the gungy flux water alone doesn't eliminate the residue in the nooks and crannies. All the displaced crud in the bath usually ends up sticking to it. Truly grateful. Andrew

Thanks Argos. The copper tone is definitely deposition not just discolouration. The inside of the body in the immediate proximity of unexposed brass is significantly pinker and the layer harder to remove. A few experiments have revealed that the cleaning product does seem to attack the low melt solder in particular. Small joints around handrail knobs, for example, have gone completely. Curiouser and curiouser. Andrew

Calling all chemists and/or metallurgists. I have been using dish washer rinse aid in an ultrasonic cleaner to see if it proves to be more effective at removing the paste fluxes (Fluxite) from the nooks and crannies that can't be reached with a brush and Vim. While it seems to work okay I am a bit concerned (but only a bit) that it seems aggressive enough to effect the metal. The photos below show that the nickel silver discolours. The copper hue will brush out with a fibreglass brush so it is presumably a deposit rather than the nickel silver breaking down as first thought. Probably no problem as there are brass bits soldered on so the copper is probably leeching out of that. Suggests in interesting reaction though. It also looks as though the chemical is capable of breaking down the solder. Some of the seams that have been sealed with a wipe of the iron have reopened. Obviously the tinned layer is extremely small but I hadn't expected the chemical to be able to break it down. Happens on both 60/40 tin lead cored solder seams and the 145 degree low melt areas. I don't use the lead free stuff. Chemical in cleaner is methylchloroisothiazolinone and methylisothiazolinone plus perfume plus limonene. Probably diluted about 1:50 with tap water. Should I avoid this stuff?

Anyone interested in exchanging a part built LYR 0-8-0 freight loco for some association loco chassis kits? I am looking for unbuilt panniers (or maybe a Terrier at a push) or a large prairie to bodge in to something - or maybe you have something more esoteric that I won't be able to resist? Nigel Hunt chronicled his build on RMWeb (chances are anyone interested in a swap has seen it - I have tried and failed to post a link). The kit is great but I am unlikely to be able to justify a loco so hideous amongst some dainty and elegant turn of the century Welsh stock . . . I am hoping to trade up my build so far plus the remainder of the etch. Here's a pic:

Three years later . . . and with apologies to Nigel. Was rummaging about in one of my numerous mounds of debris and rediscovered the tender and associated etches for this loco so got the soldering iron out to see if I could make things any worse than they were when I packed it all up in 2017. I soon remembered why I had hidden it away when the time came to attack the tender axle boxes. On re reading and re reading and re reading and re reading the instructions (I hate doing that) I am pretty sure that a few 'right through' etch lines were missing and so I ended up omitting what I assume were the horn guides either side of the bearing box plus the supporting fillet. Looked acceptable on the bench but they actually now look a bit weedy on the loco. Plasticard would suffice to beef them up. With that bit done the rest of the loco was bound to be easy! Everything else pretty much fell together. The kit is beautifully designed and nicely etched but I was going through a cack handed phase so there are some unwelcome flaws in the finish. The boiler does sit down parallel and things are generally straight and true so not a total write off but there are better things to spend my time on at the moment. BTW my initial post queried the apparent softness of the nickel silver. I gave the model a whizz through the ultrasonic cleaner using a cheap brand of dishwasher rinse aid to de-grease and de-flux with the result that the half etched sheet comprising the boiler discoloured to reveal the copper within. That has never happened before. Curious. I won't be finishing this so it will soon appear on the gloat box exchange thread on the off chance someone may want to salvage it. Wheels, gears and a motor plus a few hours fettling of the remaining etch parts would get it running. I wouldn't want it on any layout of mine. It's minging. I will, however, attack a LYR 2-4-2T tank from Nigel's range pretty soon.

And it is worth bearing in mind that wagons are not necessarily symmetrical. End door wagons require different artwork for each side as the location of strapping affects the layout of the lettering. Inkscape makes it possible, if tedious, to trace everything from photographs as below to ensure that the apparent preference of the signwriters to 'fill' the woodwork between the straps rather than working around the iron work.

Indeed. I had tried that on a Metro and it sucked so was keen to keep motor and chassis attached. It goes together with a satisfying click as the back of the boiler gets trapped by the firebox and the smokebox locates in a pocket behind the inspection doodah on the front footplate. It now needs to go back in the gloat box for a few months until I can forget about the frustrating/annoying bits . . . might even clean the crud off first. Andrew

Perhaps this should be subtitled "making a sow's ear out of a silk purse." I have long had a penchant for the GWR 517 and decided to give it a go based on the Chris Higgs 14xx replacement chassis from the shop. That is the silk purse in this build. After a bit of umm-ing and ahh-ing about reducing the wheelbase between the rear driver and the trailing wheel I eventually embraced the fact that a combination of my cack-handedness and the sheer variety within the prototypes meant that that wasn't worth the effort this time around. The build may not come off or it may simply look ungainly by having to accommodate the extra mm of length. Instead I opted to see how quickly I could throw everything together by committing a rigid hour a day to the build. In truth I spent about six hours to get the chassis to a rolling stage on a Saturday afternoon. No problem with the kit, it is great, but I managed to repeatedly put the wheels on in the wrong places and then spent ages tweaking and twisting them back off again. Other than that I stuck to the hour a day and the pics reflect the six hour chassis build plus nine hours on the body. It ain't great but I wasn't sure if it was going to be possible to fully assemble the chassis and affix a 7mm coreless motor and then work out a means of sliding the boiler over the motor and securing everything. Did Mr Higgs design the worm centre on the boiler centre line? Certainly near enough for me and it facilitates the sliding on and off of the boiler over the motor. I confess I am surprised at how big the loco has turned out in the flesh as they always look piddly in the photos and I haven't compromised the dimensions too much. It all looks promising at this stage and the major parts all fit together adequately but I have a question for the more learned out there regarding weighting. Is it best to limit the weight but ensure that the centre of gravity is over the drivers OR just pack as much lead in as I can? So far I have simply put lead between the chassis frames and they are balanced over the rear driver. The motor throws the CofG well and truly between the driving wheels but the weighting of the body could significantly alter that. In the meantime I will try to maintain the enthusiasm to do an hour a day . . . and recommend yet again the joys of using the association chassis kits as a short cut to a pragmatic solution. Cheers Andrew

I did attempt to reduce the size of the handrail knobs as suggested by Tim. Methinks I need to try again. Finished as far as I am concerned. Attempting to add more detail is unlikely to overcome some of the other shortcomings but a useful exercise for the next one. Time to scrape off the vim and throw on some undercoat.

Bit more broad gauge. Quite a few problems to work out even though this was meant to quick and simple first bodge to get a feel for any peculiarities that seven foot gauge might throw up. Open cabs are always a pain but a semblance of back head has been added. Crew will obscure most of it. Hand rails are not attached so they have moved about a bit in the pictures. A lot of filing to be done below footplate level and, because of some very ill thought out construction, the lip of the valance will need to be simulated by adding some fuse wire. Most other broad gauge locos are going to need working crossheads and probably hand made wheels as the throw on the Associations ones is a bit too large. The eagle-eyed will see that the connecting rods on the pics of the VofN tank have to run in a slot in the footplate. Either that or jacking everything up by half a mil or so which causes different problems. Going to have to bite the bullet and make the boiler fittings next and a particularly awkward dished, oval smokebox door. If this was the simple one I am now dreading the 4-4-0Ts that have to follow.

I had a go at the side tank version. Unfortunately it lacks any finesse and doesn't compare to Ian's version! The sister, saddle tank version reached footplate stage but stalled when I saw that Ian had upped the game by adding rive detail. That, in itself, is impressive. From my perspective the ability to then apply that detail completely squarely to the tank former and retain all registers neat and true is little short of phenomenal. Andrew

Any use?

' Sprung buffers? Stewart Hine's 1961 articles on building a small prairie.

Probably the ugliest broad gauge locomotive ever. I offer you the Vale of Neath's numbers 14-16 saddle tanks. 'Purposeful' is a word. A full length saddle tank that pretty much hides all of the doings makes for plenty of space to hide a motor. Obviously pic just shows a preliminary fit to test the running etc. but it all looks practicable. The motor will sit much lower in the cradle once the blue tack has been replaced with something better. When clearances etc are better understood maybe it'll be possible to do an improved version by photo etching these and he other locos in the Vale of Neath stable. The association etch of coupling rods will be cannibalized to add some texture to the bosses as the 15thou nickel silver is a bit too flat and wibbly wobbly.

Hi Jerry Just a bit more on the Maclane tipper. 2.17 - 2.20 in this Blink and you miss it! Not great detail but might help with the atmosphere in the model as it shows the trackway on which the tipper runs and the associated debris. Andrew

Finished the pointwork and it all seems to be okay though I confess the file was applied aggressively in one area to reduce a bit of rubbing. The eagle eyed will see a vague 'Minories-esque' feel to it. The station site is actually sandwiched in a cutting between two overbridges with an elaborate footbridge over the platforms. Lots of visual clutter to allow it to be run as a terminus. Unfortunately I don't have any more pcb strip so this will go on the back burner. Not sure it will be available in the particular thickness used - I bought the original pack in 1985 or so. The 'plain' mixed gauge lines will just use up stocks of the Associations's original plastic base for plain track with a bit of cutting and splicing. The difference in heights is manageable. In truth this was a project to test the viability of bendy stick trackwork planning in anticipation of the ultimate goal of a model of the Aberdare terminus which is much more interesting. That requires three 3-way, mixed gauge turnouts and setting those out accurately so that the glaring misplacement of vees evident in the pictures attached is avoided will require Templot. After years of practice and countless frustrations getting to grips with standard gauge, let alone mixed gauge, I fear that Templot will again defeat me but Aberdare offers an engine shed and turntable with standard gauge rails crossing sides plus a turntable with four rails. At scale it could be squeezed in to a 6' by 18" board. That will be done with chairplates hence the need for accurate setting out. But first I'll finish off the BG wagons I started in the 80s. And a loco. Maybe.

Really impressive bit of lettering Jim. Did you mask the X on the Dixon wagons to ensure sharpness at the extreme, pointiest corners of the 'X' or is it down to a lifetime of skills and a steady hand on a small brush? Dare I say it that these are a step change from your examples in the old Association wagon building book. Andrew

Most tedious weekend ever. Station approaches for Neath Riverside circa 1868 with BG2 and 2FS and the sidings serving the goods yard. A simple five turnout station and luckily the Vale on Neath had committed to cross sleeper track by this time. Just need to flare the wings and add the various check rails and blades. Then work out how to wire it all up . . . and make some stock. Bit confused by just how the narrow gauge stock would access the yard as the narrow gauge entry is limited to one track with no obvious route over - the cross over is broad gauge only.

A few problems with the painting. The obligatory Halford self etching primer totally eradicated the rivet detail on the metro and didn't adhere particularly well to the boiler on the other. Not worth re-doing at this stage so hopefully they'll turn green fairly soon. Things like the springs are proving more vulnerable than I'd hoped. The .010" nickel silver stalk does penetrate the footplate but the outer supports are only twists of fuse wire. On future locos I'll ensure that they nestle against the splasher to guarantee a bit of rigidity. Re the chassis on the metro. It has a 7mm coreless in the boiler held in by a grub screw. Meshing centres were arrived at by wrapping the body in electrical insulating tape and progressively removing layers until everything ran acceptably. Driven axle has a 22t gear (I think). The second/first stage gearing was achieved by bodging. I lack the skill to do things properly and prefer to repeatedly burn my fingers. Ultimately it runs okay but clearance between the valance and the coupling rods is very tight. Used cut down Association etches for an 0-6-0 and initially included the bosses on the basis that I am too cack-handed to make delicate coupling rods by hand. Those bosses had to be removed subsequently. The double layer of .010" was also a mistake. Keeping a single layer would have been much simpler and provided more clearance but I wasn't sure about them possible flexing in use. Still got a part built 1076 saddle tank to finish off then hopefully there'll be sufficient confidence to do something a bit more suited to the grand plan.