Clem

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's obviously on LB, but look at the daft angles of the lamps! 

Looks like the wolf's had a few!

19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Which leads me on (in a somewhat tangential manner) to the current issue of Railway Modeller (which, as usual, is a damn good read). In it, in the 'Railway of the Month' feature I find I'm mentioned. Apparently there's a 'Tony Wright school of accuracy' (though I taught for at least half of my 40+ year professional career, I never had my own school!). At first I was rather flattered (in a pompous sort of way?), assuming that it was a 'compliment', until I noted the lamps on the locos in the pictures. In almost every picture, whoever put the lamps on the locos belongs to the 'Tony Wright school of inaccuracy'! Expresses/excursions lamped-up as pick-up goods trains? Or a local lamped-up as a light engine? Or, no lamps at all! Which, I wonder, is worse? Though the photographs are good, doesn't the photographer know these things? Does he not know they're so wrong? If he did know, why not mention it? Then take 'correct' pictures. 

What is the Railway of the Month, Tony. If it's an S&D layout, the S&D had their own locomotive lamp code which lasted, I believe, to the end in 1966.

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

One for the next RTR OO wishlist, Clem?

 

Especially as we now have the equally-beautiful Wainwright D announced. 

Hi Tony. I'm surprised to hear you say that, when there's a Nucast kit to be revived by SEF? :-) ... . No, I'm just joshing you. (I assume the verb 'to josh' is not intransitive).   Of course, it would be perfect example for the RTR guys to choose and if fact I'm surprised they haven't done it already. BTW, I'm hoping to be at Warley tomorrow so I'll pop by and say 'hello'. However, there'll be little left in terms of traders that is of real interest to me. Just Alan Gibson, Branchlines, Dart Castings, Eileen's and perhaps a couple more, but it's a nice day out and a chance to chew the cud with a few people and see some interesting modelling.

1 hour ago, davefrk said:

The biggest batch I did was four Caley 812 locos

Hi Dave, although completely out of my modelling scope, I always had a soft spot for Caley and NB locomotives with the 812 and J36s my favourites. The one in lined Caledonian Blue looks an absolute treat!

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The Nu-Cast B16/3 is now complete

Another beauty, Tony!

14 hours ago, t-b-g said:

So it is a bit of a trap to look at colour photos from 1963 and weather your locos for your 1955 layout based on how they looked.

Whilst I think this is true of passenger locomotives, certainly in my chosen location,  photos of the early to mid 1950s show the goods locomotives (well a good proportion of them, anyway) to be pretty dirty. - Soot, ash and limescale all feature, though not so much for rust compared to later years. It must be nice to model pre-grouping locomotives where the amount of weathering is very limited and subtle. I always have a little pang of regret when weathering a newly built locomotive, especially if  I've made a half decent job of the painting.

46 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

What strikes me about so many of the photos of 'weathered' steam locos here on RMweb is that the finish is far too light coloured - many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course !! This applies equally to RTR and hand-finished 'weathered' models.

I beg to differ, John. For the line I'm modelling, most of the locos were based at Colwick and suffered from the whitish staining of the hard water and of course, ash. If anything, I find weathering on models is often too dark and too mono-tonal and too based on that brownish weathering mix that the RTR guys employ.  (I must own up to also being very guilty of the mono-tonal effect usually rushing to try to finish a model off). However, I have been very impressed with the standard of weathering on LB. Some very well observed and subtle shades to the fore.

My collection of colour photos may be more limited than yours John, but I do try to work from photos and they often appear to show this lighter misting of grey with just a touch of brown. Of course the very dark shades of grey/black are also present in places. Part of the issue may be simply the much greater area of surface exposed to daylight on the real thing, which in itself tends to show up lighter compared to the small area of a model but colour compensation by weathering lighter surely gives the desired effect? I know the whole colour issue is pretty contentious but for me it's just about trying to make it look right.

A bit more progress on my GN box. Just 2 big windows to do, one of which will be semi-open. I've then got to put in the two windows in the eaves and the two for the weights room at the bottom. Then it'll be down to building the steps and toilet, adding walking boards and handrails, fire buckets board and buckets. It really has been a case of trying to improve a sow's ear and whilst it's no silk purse, it's getting to the plastic purse standard. I must admit that before I assembled the warped and twisted sides, it was a toss up whether I chucked it away and started again but , on reflection, I thought that it's better to proceed and see what lessons need learning.

On another topic, I'm closing in on deciding a name for my layout. When I was little, my brother took me to a place near home called Hempshill. (pronounced sh, not hemps hill). It was just east of Nuthall sidings (we lived at Nuthall) where we watched the trains go by - pretty well every day. Although the terrain on my layout doesn't quite correspond, (the cutting was less deep at Hempshill) and of course there wasn't a station there, it fits many of the other things on my list. I do regret now not doing an actual place but as I originally intended to do Kimberley (but I got beaten to it by Ilkeston MRS), I figured it was best to do a bit of an amalgam of two or three or stations on the line. So there are elements of West Hallam and Kimberley in the layout so far and the signal box is based on Breadsall. 

Finally, couple of people I know are struggling with their mental health. It's been making me realise more and more that we're all so lucky to have a hobby like this.

Best wishes 

Clem

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Those windows look a lot neater than many a signal box. What solvent are you using? If you try DL Limonine (not sure of the spelling) for the glazing you will find it is slower acting but doesn't fog the glazing.

Hi Tony, Thanks. I tried Limonine but I actually found it more tricky to use. On this model,  I used it on the first  window but for the other two, I've used Butatone. I apply it very carefully and sparingly, not touching the 'glass', just letting it creep down the seam from the frame with capillary action. Sometimes the frame part will move during application and I've found that if you're quick you can get away with a slight adjustment with Butatone but I did find Limonene (or at least the stuff I've been using  - Mr. Cement Limonene) seemed to be more prone to smearing if I needed to adjust. I know Geoff Kent uses Limonine a lot and gets wonderful results. It might be a brand thing. I have another brand of Limonine somewhere. I'll think I'll give that a try.

Some very interesting and informative postings on lamination. I've learnt quite a bit today. The warping I've experienced using lamination has always been when on layer is embossed and the backing layer isn't. 

Clem

45 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

Plastruct do 0.25mm x 0.25mm strip reference MS10.

Thanks Paul,

I really  didn't think anyone did 0.25 x 0.25.  That is really useful information for this model. The other ideas posted all look like good solutions too and deserve a try out on future projects. It's the vertical parts of the window frame that is most difficult to produce by cutting 0.5 x 0.25 lengthwise. This can give me better consistency. (and it's easier).

20 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

My good friend David White (who knows a bit about plastikard) told me that you should always use odd numbers of laminations to avoid warping and IIRC David Jenkinson used the same technique.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Dave, that's a really useful tip. . I shall certainly use that method in future. I keep imagining the stresses and strains that now exist in the walls of my model :-).

Thanks to all for the advice. 

1 hour ago, CF MRC said:

Clem, the window frames and bars on our signal boxes are drawn directly on to clear glazing material with a ruling pen and Humbrol paint.  That way they are to scale and not overstated, the secret of good 2mm modelling. 
 

Tim

Hi Tim, 

 Thanks for coming back. Great idea. It makes perfect sense.  I've attempted to use plastic strip but they don't make it small enough to make it look correct. So  I  have resorted to chopping O.5 x 0.25 evergreen lengthwise to try to make it look right, placing on the glazing, carefully checking it's correctly positioned and drifting a very small amount of solvent, trying to avoid fogging the clear plastic. The problem is getting the lengthwise chops consistent but here (below) is progress so far. I've had terrific problems with embossed brick plastic warping when backed with plain styrene sheet and I've had to clamp  warped walls etc. flat whilst trying to assemble it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong to get such warping.

Anyhow, here (below) is progress so far. It's very rough round the edges but I'm hoping to turn it into a half decent model. If not, I'll simply start again and have another go.

8 hours ago, CF MRC said:

If you’re worried about signal boxes being too close together, consider Belle Isle on CF where there were five boxes almost within sight of one another!  Our latest addition is Belle Isle Down, made by Matthew Wald. 

Hi Tin, I'm not worried about boxes being too close together but what I am worried about is how Matthew has made his window frames so much finer and more convincing than those in the one I'm scratch building at the moment (not too well obviously!)  ..... and that's in 2mm and I'm in 4mm!!!  Could I please enquire how he made them?

On 30/10/2019 at 17:03, Tony Wright said:

The architectural work is that of Bob Dawson, Ian Wilson and myself, and the scenic work is that of Rob Davey, Richard Wilson, Gilbert Barnatt, Ellen Sparkes and me. 

 

Wow, Tony these photos are stunning. That's fantastic modelling. I really had to check to see if it was a period photo of the real thing! On first impressions it looks real and then you dig into the detail... and it still looks absolutely like the real thing. You and your team are setting very high standards.

I've heard it said via a number of sources that Colwick men always preferred a 'Tiny' (O4) on the coal and iron ore trains in Notts and Derbyshire because of, amongst other things,  their sure-footed abilities. They must certainly be the most aesthetically pleasing design to connoisseurs like us. 

Hi Brian, there doesn't seem to be a category for PO/LMS/LNER hopper wagons for iron ore - such as LMS diagrams D1669 or D1893/4 or the various PO types. Also the Dapol/Bachmann Charles Roberts/BR 24T iron ore hopper is very dimensionally challenged. This kind of leads on to a more general comment. There doesn't seem to be anywhere where you can add omissions to the list (or did I miss it?). 

The reason I mention specifically the hopper wagons is twofold. Firstly, there are a number of existing prototypes (particularly the LMS ones) at the Rutland Railway museum and secondly, if manufactured accurately, they would sell in numbers as part of a hopper rake so commonly seen in the 1950s. They are very time consuming to scratch build (although I'm prepared to go down that road if needs must (already have one completed))

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Lovely stuff - thanks for posting it.

 

I assume those (fitted?) container wagons are there for braking purposes?

No, although they were fitted, I don't know whether they bothered connecting them up for their journey into Colwick. They were picked up from Newthorpe and Greasley on the Pinxton Branch as required. Interestingly, it didn't change the class of train (Class J 'Mineral or Empty Wagon Train'). I think there was only one pick up goods on the branch and in the up direction, it followed the last passenger train down, the engine coming off the passenger at Pinxton and returning with the pick up. For whatever reason, it was obviously deemed more urgent for the containers to be picked up earlier in the day by a passing mineral train.

I have a friend who worked in the goods yard at the next station down from Newthorpe in 1953/4 and he thinks the containers were unloaded and picked up from there, the containers reaching the factory then by road (about a mile). Whilst I'm sure that containers were loaded/unloaded at Eastwood, Newthorpe did have sidings into the factory and there's at least one photo of container wagons in the sidings adjacent to the factory. So, whilst I can't say I've definitely got to the bottom of it, it's this kind of local research that makes modelling the prototype so interesting.

Happy Birthday Tony. Many happy returns. Have a lovely evening!

On 05/10/2019 at 18:06, APOLLO said:

Edited to add - I think the above shot is after Victoria closed in 1967 but prior to demolition and track lifting that left only two through lines for a couple of years as below. Perhaps 1968 ? 

I hate seeing Nottingham Victoria in this condition. Even in later days when I visited the station and the lack of traffic made it very quiet, I still had that feeling of awe at the sheer space and atmosphere. It was like being in a cathedral dedicated to all that was great in railway architecture. I avoided the demolition. How I still miss its presence in this city, over 50 years gone.

Tony, I've really enjoyed looking at your shots in your last couple of posts. I've said before but LB really is a masterpiece! Looking at your side on view of 'Cock O' The North', the exposed frames in front of the cylinders took me right back to being a nipper at Grantham. I remember standing at the end of the platform on many occasions and being fascinated by the rivets on the frames of the A2/1s, A2/2s and A2/3s although in my memory it was mainly A2/3s. This transportation back in time, is the big extra bonus of modelling if you're old enough to remember the real thing. I've even got (somewhere - probably in the loft) an old school book from when I was about 8 or 9 where, on the inside cover, I'd attempted a side on drawing of one. Probably done when I should have been listening to the teacher. Pretty sure I included the rivets, although I may not have been accurate with the counting of them.

10 hours ago, BlackRat said:

I recently had a conversation with the owners of a layout based in North Cornwall, where even the uniform of the local plod had been taken into consideration but to me, the trees just didn't look right as any tree in on the North Coast, what they are are definitely wind blown to the prevailing wind.

Are you talking about the Billy Whizz trees? 

52 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Morning Clem,

 

I don't have time to answer all.

you should really be exhibiting this line as well, the passenger traffic is amazingly interesting. Or at least shoot more videos in you railway room/shed.  One thing is for sure, you are going to need a hole bunch of BZ's.

 
I've had more time to look at the CWN, I found the through carriages from KX in 1955. It confirms what I thought, they are running as their own train all the way. Only three carriages TK (8) MK1, CK (3-3) Thompson. BTK (4) Gresley comp door. BG attached Grantham, detach Derby and BZ attached Grantham, detach Nottingham. Departure from Grantham is at 11.02 am. It's more than likely that your photo shows a later change to this working. The van in your photo is definatly a 30 odd footer, probably a BZ.

 

There are two articulated sets (steel) running with BY's permanently attached as part of the formation! Amazing, I don't think that I've ever seen that on ordinary passenger trains before. It's the equivalent of the Elizabethan with it's dedicated BG's. Why was all the extra van capacity needed on every trip? Sets were combined at Grantham on some workings in a way that could also put a van in the middle of a train and you also had strengtheners added to trains that had add extra carriages outside a van.

 

A link to a nice shot of BZ's lined up at Nottingham Victoria, extream right is an ex GER 6 wheeler, now running as a stores van, I've modeled that one.

 

http://www.railuk.info/gallery/steam/br_lner/61156.jpg

Morning Andrew. Hmm... that's a lot to take in. The amount of work involved in getting the required variety the line demands is a bit scary as I'm a lone modeller and not the fastest of workers. However, on the positive side... what an opportunity to have such an interesting line to model. Of course, I'll have to compromise whilst working towards a better reflection of how the line should be. I have 2 BZ kits in to build (one will be started pretty soon) so far but it and a couple of BGs but it sounds like I'm going to need more and source a Gresley BY or two also if possible. Some scratch building will be required as well if that variety is to be met. It does reflect my memory of the line whereby many passenger trains seemed to be supplemented by vans of one sort or another. 

However, I do also need to get down to building buildings. I'm half way through a signal box which needs to be finished and all the buildings on 'West' end of the layout need doing along with station entrance and scenery..... Plenty to do this Winter, then.....

7 hours ago, Clem said:

Hi Andrew, that  sounds intriguing. Looking forward to hearing more about the van. 

A thought that occurred to me regarding the van in the middle of the train: Milk was taken every morning from stations West of Derby to London Kings Cross from the 1880s and I'm not sure sure exactly when it stopped although once source has suggested through working stopped in the late 1940s. I know there was still continuing milk traffic into the 50s (see below). If the source has it wrong, I'm wondering if this van was a returning empty from King's Cross.  So a couple of photos showing firstly the afternoon Derby-Uttoxeter milk pulling away from Derby with a single van as late as 1959 and a  photo taken at Breadsall of the 9-10am Derby to Nottingham train on March 11th 1950 with a very interesting formation of stock. So here I'm wondering about the leading van (Diagram 120?). Note also a Diagram 312 Gresley steel panelled twin behind the van is interesting. The engine is a Grantham engine so the train may very well go on to form the next Grantham train. I may very well be barking up the wrong tree with all this but I'm looking forward to hearing what Andrew (Headstock) has managed to find out. (Both photos from Mark Higgingson's book on 'The Friargate Line').

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

I have a slight suspicions about what your train is, I would like to no more about the through carriages and were the information about them came from. I think that a friend of mine may have a 57 CWN, I will be working all day tomorrow but I may speak to him tomorrow night. If I'm right, I may know exactly what that van is.

 

That is also a rather atractive bit of point work.

Hi Andrew, that  sounds intriguing. Looking forward to hearing more about the van. 

The location is 'The Hall' siding. It's where the horses for the racecourse were unloaded (on the far side where, behind the train, there is a platform. On this side, I assume it is a lay-by presumably used for race specials stock. The Racecourse station (for passengers) is about half-a-mile behind the photographer who was P. J. Lynch (just looked it up). The date of the photo was June 16th 1957.