torikoos

I haven't installed anything in an Intermountain, but if the board is relatively similar to an Athearn or Atlas board, I'd say it would fit reasonably, certainly won't take up more space in that case. I did find (in the case of an Athearn SW1500), that the Loksound mounting screw holes did not line up with the frame, so I used insulating (kapton) tape to insulate the frame and taped the decoder in position, a similar solution may apply to Intermountain. The decoder does fit very well on other (athearn) that I've used it, so it seems to vary. (the SW1500 is a bit of a hybrid anyway, part RTR, part Genesis, due to it's limited space under the hood). Koos

Hi John, are you referring to the Bachmann 'Soundvalue' equipped locomotives? they are basically stripped down Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders, lacking some of the flexibility of the 'full' decoder, but otherwise use the same sound files. Here's a link: http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/Bachmann/Bachmann.php and scroll down to see what the 'soundvalue' decoders offer.

I've not had the misfortune of encountering a model with an MRC in it, but have heard enough horror stories not to try it. The only time I would do so is when I might get a model equipped with one second hand, when the price is right. I much prefer DCC ready models, and install a decoder of choice, depending on the available sounds for a particular model, and the space available inside. The way Loksound is going, I have to say that most of the time I end up ordering one of them, particularly for Atlas and Athearn engines, where the 'Loksound Select Direct' is a reasonable fit out of the box, minimizing modifications etc to get it installed. I do tend to experiment with other, non DCC ready purchases. I recently got an older Proto2000 SD9 (pre Walthers era), and for that one, I'm going to try out the new TCS Wowsound decoder.

Hello Paul, nice to see you here too. :-) I'll repost my answer that I gave on the DCC forum here, and elaborate a little. you'd be better of 'living' with the MRC decoder while you save up for a replacement. You are spoiled for choice, with TCS, Soundtraxx and ESU Loksound all offering sound decoders with excellent motor control and authentic 567 diesel sounds. I haven't tried TCS (heard one on youtube and sounds great), but from the other two I can give my preference for ESU (while programming might seem confusing, the auto tune for speed performance is very useful and often spot on), while the Soundtraxx decoder can also give similar performance, but might test your patience a little in trial and error before you get it right. You may have read about the 'weak horn' complaint of Soundtraxx. While it is certainly true that they are weak in comparison to the newest ESU and TCS releases, as well as the QSI decoders, they can be improved with some tweaking. The Soundtraxx actually offer a few functions not available on other brands, being an equalizer and separate reverb controls. Adding Reverb to the horn, and adjust the volume mix a little to let the Horn stand out from the prime mover (and don't forget to reduce the bell right down as it is a sound very easily amplified by the tiny speakers and is often over emphasised (that's for most decoders btw)) will go a long way to improve that, so don't discount them completely. Listen to a few (there's plenty on youtube to get a rough idea), and make your choice. Koos

Having recently obtained an older P2K SD9 locomotive , which is still wired for DC, I'm going to convert it to DCC, and try out the WOW diesel in it. As it is a different road from the majority of my fleet, it won't often operate together with these, and thus trying out a different decoder in it is something I can easily do. Once I've done the install , I'll report back on my findings.

Correct, perhaps they intended these to be GP15T. :-) I have asked TCS, non turbo sounds for several makes are in the works, and the decoders released in future will be updated so it's remains one decoder to buy , instead of a different one for another engine.

Coastal DCC has them in stock, see here. about halfway down the page: Price is very reasonable. http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/tcs/

The newest US sound decoders on the market are the TCS Wowsound decoders. First were the steam, now the first Diesel decoders are released. here's a few demo's , one for a EMD 645 Turbo, the other a EMD 567 prime mover, plus one more. They sound great to me, and the playable horns are great too.

Maybe they'll do both?

OK, I know Jason Shron does frequent RMWeb every now and then, so here's the start of my lobby, Southern Pacific RDC SP10 please! :-) ... pretty please? ... I would order by the dozen as Jason requests, but since SP only had one , I will only order one, but there's probably enough like minded people that want one of these too.. at least 13 I'd think. :-)

A model railroad shop in Frankfurt is this one, has some US stuff in the online shop: http://www.meder-frankfurt.de/shop/index.php?cl=search&searchmanufacturer=254dfafb15ef2de5f89211ceb48c163e&cur=0&&listtype=search&searchmanufacturer=254dfafb15ef2de5f89211ceb48c163e Their address is a bit tricky to find but it's on the main page in a Marklin digital add. http://www.meder-frankfurt.de/index.php?id=modellbahnen-modellautos Perhaps it's worth a visit? Koos

Isn't it also the case (it certainly was in the '90s when I dabbled in FREMO (not to be confused with the US originating FREEMO)) that end plates of a few 'standard' designs needed to be purchased from the FREMO organisation, to make sure they are a perfect fit with others? I know since then, FREMO has expanded to include other scales, gauges, and other parts of the world (the original concept being of a german secondary line), while there is now a Fremo-USA (particularly popular on the European continent) etc. etc The NMRA-BR 'standards' as currently used, were developed keeping in mind what was already being done by some groups, in order to be able to join up with as many others as possible, and not go for a design that would exclude too many modelers. Amongst others the 'standards' these were based on were derived from those developed by RS Tower, and the existing NMRA BR standards that were starting to become a bit outdated, based on advances in available technologies, and track. (the old standard used code 100, while code 83 track has a nicer appearance for a mainline). More on those module specifications can be found at the NMRA BR website, and a download link is found at the bottom of the page. I suggest you have a read of it, and see which points of the specs could be useful for the UK specs. It does explain why certain choices were made, which may be similar or even identical to some choices a specification for UK systems faces, but others may not be relevant, or unwanted. It's just a starting point, but hopefully may get you on your way to develop a UK modular standard for 00 initially, and other scales/gauges at a later stage. http://www.nmrabr.org.uk/member-articles/153-nmra-ho-module-specification Koos

I'm sorry Andy, but I don't find 'Rivet Counter' derogatory at all. It is used in context all over the internet on many modeling websites, and everyone knows what is meant by it. I don't think the vast majority of modelers would be offended. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rivet_counter http://glosbe.com/en/en/rivet%20counter http://www.wordsense.eu/rivet_counter/ Nowhere I found during my (admittedly) brief search flagged up that it was perceived as a derogatory term. If it really was, moderators on many websites would guard for the term similarly as racist or abusive language, but you can find it everywhere and the vast majority of people it seems, are not offended. In fact the truth is more nuanced and while it is used in a somewhat 'negative' context, it doesn't need to be. It is often true though that those referred to as 'rivet counters' (and I include myself as being one, although not in every part of the hobby, and I also haven't yet acquired the skill set to achieve the minute detail I'd like, and I can laugh at myself for being like that sometimes) often are highly critical (often very vocal too) about the efforts of others. While it is ok to be critical of your own work, being critical to others needs to be done with more care and should be done in a manner that builds a persons confidence and knowledge. That's often forgotten and usually the result is that the 'target' is left feeling inferior and of a lesser modeler with no chance of ever becoming as good. Yes critics are needed to elevate the hobby, but just be critical in the right manner. All too often (not always!) , people's work is dismissed, but very little is offered in terms of what could be improved, let alone showing how it could/should be done. If that was applied more often, then 'rivet counters' would be viewed as a more positive thing. Anyway, I've been veering way of topic, this thread is supposed to be about possible UK modular railroading systems. Cheers, Koos

Hi Andy, The poster Brian posted, is one of many different ones the NMRA BR has issued, to highlight the various aspects of model railroading. in this case it was about sharing know how (our recurrent theme) in regards to modular railroading and running trains in a realistic way, not just aimless circles etc, one of many ways this hobby can be enjoyed and highlighting the social aspect of it, which we fear is getting a little lost due to the advance of the internet (despite the many pro's it has too) Others emphasize scenery building, yet others about kit bashing etc etc, they are all intended to introduce the 'public' , and those new to (north american) model railroading to the many facets of this hobby, without 'scaring them off' with craftsman quality modeling, giving of the (false) impression that we are all master craftsmen, and prevent them from thinking 'I could never do that, this is not for me'. It was a stigma we felt the NMRA-BR was suffering from. Yes there are great modelers amongst us, but they didn't get there overnight. We want everyone to enjoy this hobby, each at their own pace and skill level, and in the process perhaps pick up a tip or two. I hope that looking at it in that context, the poster/flyer makes more sense? Koos

That's why I mention 'recommended practices'. That said you will need a minimum set of standards to adhere to if you want to develop a method that many people could adopt and you could participate. You're never going to please everyone, and there will be pro's and cons. Issues like the base colours of scenery, ballast etc do not need to be standardized. Neither do you need to prescribe a certain make of track per se, as long as it is compatible and robust enough that it isn't going to cause problems. You will need to have standards for height / distance from floor to top of the rail . How you get to that height is not standardized, just the height. You'll need to agree on a way to transition from one module to that of another person. (what you do within the limits of your own doesn't need the standard applied, but makes things easier) Will you use rail joiners, transition pieces of 6" track , or rail heads coming up to the edge of the module, with some form of sturdy and damage proof method of fixing it in place so that humidity and temperature doesn't cause misalignments etc . A minimum wiring standard would be to have two track bus (track power) wires running from one end to the other. This will facilitate transmission of track power reliably along the length of the layout, and onto the next board. Any other wires that add to this, can be 'recommended practices'. For example you might not need power for accessory items such as lights, or point motors etc on your board, so you don't need to wire them up. However a good practice is to bring along a cable so your boards can be 'by passed' in case the adjoining boards do need this. You will need to agree on a certain common method of hooking these wires together from one to the next module (what connector type to use, which colour perhaps, depending on the type chosen, to facilitate anyone being able to help in set up, and to make any troubleshooting that WILL happen sooner or later, easier), another standard. There are multiple reasons why certain things have become standards on many modular systems, generally because they work. Not because it is to impose a certain idea onto others. It just is there to ensure that modules fit together and can be up and running, as not to detract from the reason why you got together in the first place, RUNNING TRAINS, and have fun sharing that with others. The last thing you need is to spend hours troubleshooting, making all kinds of adapters to fit someone in that didn't build to the standard etc etc. You get the idea. That is also why certain systems have decided to have a certain width, some even lengths or fractions thereof (in case you decide to build in the provision for a geometric oval shaped layout for continuous running). It's for geometric reasons, clamping/fixing methods, ease of construction and setting up , transportation, storage, etc etc. We all agreed to drive on the left in the UK, and follow the highway code, it's what makes it work (most of the time) , but we're not all driving in the exact same cars,but they all adhere to certain minimum rules. You need some minimum form of standardization in any modular system, whatever form it may take, and I think you agree. Within most standards, there still is an enormous amount of freedom, and the most important one is the choice to participate or not, and to help developing them into something that works for the many, not for the few. Koos

True Ian, and I've done just that on occasion. The freedom of not being attached to a wire is very liberating. Smartphone in one hand, waybills and/or uncoupling tools in the other :-) Koos

Technically, you are correct, Width doesn't matter per se, BUT, the reason several modular systems out there chose one is to make the whole layout look a bit more uniform, at least at the joints. It is often also based on the average size people can handle comfortably when transporting , loading / unloading. Also there are set ups where a set of boards join up with a set of curved boards that make a 180 degree turn and come back in parallel on the other boards. Using various widths could have a consequence that people have trouble passing , particularly if two operators are back to back. So why there is no reason why you can't build one that is 12" wide, or 24" or any other number you care to dream up, and successfully join up with a board of another width, it won't look very pleasing to onlookers, particularly if the set up in question is open to members of the public to come and watch the fun, in the hopes to promote it to a wider audience for example. At the very least, have a uniform agreed width at the joints, and what you do in between is entirely up to the owner/builder, most existing modular systems provide for that freedom. Adapter boards can be used to do the same. The current set of standards developed by the NMRA-BR for example are based on those of RS-Tower. These happen to be US outline, and besides a few basic needs, and agreements, the standards are largely 'recommended practices', and leave a lot of freedom to whoever builds boards/modules. (the definition being that a 'module' can be build up out of 1 or more boards(segments) ). British outline modelers might have different needs and wishes, and that's why Andy started this thread. However, have a good look at what's already out there, and the reasoning behind 'standards, and 'recommended practices' , before re-inventing the wheel. As Bruce Lee said , 'Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own'. As for DCC, even within that, everyone is free to choose the DCC system of choice for their own personal use at home. A meet organiser is usually the one that supplies the DCC system of choice for that particular meeting, with those that have compatible equipment bringing these along. As long as you make provisions to be able to hook up to a DCC system (at the bare minimum that's 2 wires only!), your modules, can happily participate. In some cases, adapter wires / cables might be needed, but those are all items that can easily be overcome without a lot of expense. Just my 2Cents. :-)

Did you manage to fine tune your RS? Don't forget the ESU Loksound (V4, Select, and direct versions) decoder has an auto tune function, which will get you to about 95% of perfect in most cases. Koos

Hi Gary, As Mal says, yes you can get the Select Direct versions with sounds already loaded at the time of order. Do make sure your dealer loads it up for you, and may even be able to program your desired road number, function output assignments etc for you. Some of that is easier to do with the LokProgrammer, decoder pro works too, as do direct CV programming from your DCC system. But beware, a decoder reset could also result in loss of the on board sounds, so only do such a thing as a very last resort. You then need access to a Lokprogrammer to reload the sounds. As long as you know which sound you want loaded, (the ESU websites will tell you the sound file number for the decoder and primemover sounds you're interested in) and pass it on to your dealer, they can program it for you before shipping. (Coastal DCC does this for you amongst others). Koos

Hi Gary, yes that sound file for the 645 is available for download on ESU's website. As for Soundtraxx, they do really need to step up now, they have been market leaders particularly in the North American scene, but the latest ESU efforts sees them gaining ground rapidly. Apart from their flexibility, the ESU decoders also have the easiest to set up low speed control, something that Soundtraxx is lacking. They are capable of low speed control, but it takes a lot of patience to do. I'm sure however, that Soundtraxx is working on it in the background, and will surprise us with a release of a second generation Tsunami decoder with upgraded sound and improved easier to set up low speed control. If they can also get the average price of a sound decoder down (something valid for all manufacturers) then sound is within reach of so many more modelers. Currently it almost doubles the price of a loco, but if it adds 50 usd or so, then it's much more affordable. It can be done, Bachmann soundvalue already proves that lower cost sound is possible, without loosing much functionality or quality.... Koos

Yes indeed, the EMD 645 sound is excellent too, I need to have another good look at that file to make sure a non-turbo version is among it (I'm not entirely convinced that's the case) , as then I can upgrade the sound in a GP38-2 that I have. (edit: no this file is turbo charged only, so I'll wait a bit longer :-) ) Koos

I've installed another Loksound Select decoder in my GP9, which I am working on. It is loaded with the newest version of Loksound's soundfile for the EMD 567 primemover, and I selected the M5 horn as prototypical for my particular project. The new sounds are great, and contain a primemover both with manual and automatic transition noises. (the manual version is best for the older locos using this engine, such as the GP9 and F7 etc etc), the automatic is very good for switchers amongst others. The new sound files by ESU are really good, and the horn has fidelity, something sadly lacking from the otherwise great Tsunami sound decoders. Koos PS: I am aware that the large SP lettering on the end of the long hood is incorrect. I merely applied them to trial my decal application, as the ladders were already fitted on both sides. It turned out I didn't have to worry as it went fine on both rear and front. I will remove these again, and apply the road number instead.

Here's some amateur footage of the move, note the operating whistle :-) Koos

You could surely use Coastal for a fitting service, however if you know someone local (club perhaps) who can do it then that's also an option. There are also several tutorials on line, it's not too difficult really, just need good lighting, a few basic tools, and a soldering iron. Which loco are you intending to take the QSI out of? If you have a look at the Soundtraxx website, they have instructions for many different types of locos on how to fit their decoders. In many cases these instructions would also be valid for any other brand of decoder. For example here's one for a GP 35 http://www.soundtraxx.com/documents/appnotes/athearn_gp35.pdf And here's an overview page: http://www.soundtraxx.com/choose/step2.php?s=ho

That's correct there's a drop down menu , but if you find that the sounds you need are not listed, check the ESU website if it is available, if it is, they will happily load it for you, just give them the sound file number from the ESU website. I did this for the non turbo EMD sound for an SW1500 I needed, and it's now part of the drop down list. You'll also notice that his prices are very competitive. Normally ships within 2-3 days depending if you ask to load up sounds etc. Koos