rowanj

Hi Mark. That's the reason I haven't ordered a J24..they went from BR a bit too early for, what was then, my comfort. It's funny the ridiculous prejudices one can have for not having a particular loco. North Yorkshire seems to to be a bridge too far to justify seeing one of their small goods or shunting locos on Tyneside, so I always renumber a York, Selby or Hull engine (sorry, Mike). For some reason, I won't build a J26 from Teesside, though happily run the occasional A5... Such is the weird mindset of the railway modeller.

I am gratified by the last few posts, ..grateful that folks have taken the time to put a comment on the thread. What seems to have happened is that, with more kitbuilding, the timescale of the layout has gradually slipped back from my original concept of the years when I actually was at that location watching trains. I'm not perhaps the purist that my post have have given the impression. More and more, loco building has seen me running classes of locos which were gone by 1958, and even then, were hardly ever seen North of Newcastle. B16/2/3, and A5 and A8 are cases in point. The D20 was deliberately chosen as an example of one of the last in class, late crest at al, and which actually ran through Little Benton. The coach has pushed the boundaries back even furher, and I doubt it got past 1951 in reality. If I could have instead got a model of an ex NER coach which lasted longer, I would have done so. The problem is, though I won't be entering it in a " coach build of the year" competition, I loved building it in a period when bad health made things tricky at home, and, to be honest, I'm chuffed to bits with how it's turned out. Having got this far back, what price a J24?

I suppose these photos shows what I am trying to replicate with my kit building efforts as I try to re-create the location where I 'spotted from age 11 to about 15. It also shows the difficulty I have with the timeline, as my DJH D20, modified by extending the smokebox to represent it in its' last years, has a late crest, yet tows a coach which was gone by the early '50;s. Yet there is more satisfaction than with the re-numbered Tweedmouth B1 on a Berwick-Newcastle stopper on its' rake of (excellent) Hornby RTR's. Hopefully, over time, I can mix up the rake to add interest. The real D20 is heading North , but the setup in the loft means I cannot easily take photos without the contortions which will defeat a 70 y.o from this western viewpoint . Perhaps a selfie stick? John

DJH D20, amended to represent a loco at the end of it's life, emerges from under Little Benton Farm Bridge with the D&S Brake 3rd. I've also enclosed a prototype photo of D20 at the same spot, though taken from the West, which I cant replicate. The B1 and Hornby Non-Corridors, by contrast, are all RTR, though the B1 has been re-named/numbered. In due course, I hope to be able to mix-and-match these to make more interesting rakes.

I was certainly feeling "chicken" when I started to paint it, Andrew. As I said in an earlier post, the colour is very responsive to changes of light. The Composite will be painted using Precision Track Dirt to give a bit of variety. I'll add transfers - I hope they got BR -style numbers late in life - and weathering, then it's good to go. \what is the recommended kit, if any, for a BZ? John

This is a "work in progress" on what may become a short rake of ex NER and Ex-LNER Suburbans. I have a couple of Composites to build to match the Brake 3rd, which is now almost complete. By the %0's they had all been downgraded to 3rd Class. The leading coach is a Kirk kit built longer ago than I care to remember, and has lain unloved in a box with 2 others for years. Flushed with "success", I'm going to have a go at renovating them, and have built ABS bogies for another wreck. I'll rebuild the underframe with MJT parts and see what happens. There are often comments elsewhere about renumbering RTR locos, and I do this regularly. 42085 looks odd on this train, but it was on Tyneside in the 1950's, and actually worked Manors- Newbiggin trains, and I have a photo to prove it. Some of the 49ft coaches, of which the Brake 3rd is one, finished their lives on these trains, and so any renumbering of the loco, in this case, would be pointless.

Hi Mick- I was told the solebar wold be black, post -War? Vacuum tanks still to be fitted, - they didn't come with the kit but are on order from Dart Castings. New camera- not a chance- I leave that to Mrs rowanj.

This is where I am with the D&S Dia 53 ex-NER Brake. The roof still needs fitted and some detail tidied up, and numbers added. I have my doubts about some of the underframe details, but anything I discover later can probably be sorted if the errors are too glaring. Given the recent conversions on another thread, whether this coach is wholly unacceptable/intolerable, just about OK or not too bad/acceptable is in the eye of the beholder. For a first attempt, it hasn't come out too badly in my view, but I'm prejudiced. The leading coach is a Kirk kit built longer ago than I care to remember, and has lain unloved in a box with 2 others for years. Flushed with "success", I'm going to have a go at renovating them, and have built ABS bogies for another wreck. I'll rebuild the underframe with MJT parts and see what happens. There are often comments elsewhere about renumbering RTR locos, and I do this regularly. 42085 looks odd on this train, but it was on Tyneside in the 1950's, and actually worked Manors- Newbiggin trains, and I have a photo to prove it. Some of the 49ft coaches, of which the Brake 3rd is one, finished their lives on these trains, and so any renumbering of the loco, in this case, would be pointless. When I got the coach kits they came as a pair, i.e 2 Brakes and 2 Composites. I doubt I will build another Brake, so will probably sell the second one on. I'm getting too old to stockpile. Thanks again to all those who helped on this project.

Thanks again. The livery on Mick's photo is fantastic. My brown version, not so much.

Hi Mick. Well, I have found an etch which I think is for the roof lights, though they are rather small. So that will suffice. The photo came courtesy of Headstock, and believe the location is York. That would account for the condition, as it looks ex works from York Carriage Works.

This is the prototype of The D&S NER Birdcage Brake 3rd, currently in course of construction. As I will be running the coach at the end of its'life, and having received a tremendous amount of advice on the subject, mine will have electric lighting, and Westinghouse brakes removed along with the central footboard. I'm not sure about the roof layout. There is no reference to them in the kit, but the photo and the drawing on the box suggests there is something - a roof window?- either side of the birdcage. This makes sense to add light to the guards' compartment, but I don't know what it looks like. I also think covers were fitted where the gas lamps were removed, and want to fit them, but were they square or circular? I'm guessing circular, more or less the same diameter as the bottom of the lamps. The coach has managed to get full "scrumbled teak". By my time, it would be plain brown with black ends. I used Jonathan's recommendation of Humbrol 186 with a touch of black. It's an interesting colour, in that it looks MUCH lighter in full light than in shadow. But it does look like some of the colour photos I have of LNER Brown coaches, and weathering will darken it further.

Haven't we always undervalued the cost of rolling stock as opposed to locomotives? I have just acquired a few D&S etched coach kits, very possibly from the source you refer to. I also got an etched 0-6-0 tank kit , and the cash difference was only £20. While I did gulp at the price of the coach, it was something I wanted, and, having looked at the contents and quality, actually, I doubt if the production costs would be very different if both were being designed and put into production today. I think my gulp was more to do with what I had expected the price to be, given how we tend to think the cost of stock should be. I should stress that both the coach and loco kits are excellent, but at least with a coach one doesn't need to spend the same again on wheels gearbox and motor.

Re-numbered RTR meets "lumpen" whitemetal kits of which neither are still available.. The B1 is original Bachmann and still runs well and quietly(ish) on its' split chassis. The T1 (little Engines) was largely soldered. The G5 (NuCast) was largely glued. Both have had a fair bit of detail added to what came with the kits. Neither were particularly difficult to build, more modern and better detailed etched kits of the prototypes are available, and an RTR G5 is on the drawing board. I build etched kits, and most these days are superbly designed and detailed. I submit, however, that they are generally more difficult to build than a whitemetal kit, they MUST be soldered, and therefore are not an easy entry to loco building compared, say, to Tony's (and my) introduction via a BEC J11. So, unless you really want to build one, as opposed to just having one, how many modellers would choose to build LRM's excellent G5 rather than wait for the RTR one. and other than SEF and DJH, where do you go now for whitemetal kits? Only the second-hand market? If one runs anything remotely true to a prototype, even allowing some flexibility in date/era, you still need kits to make the motive power and rolling stock realistic. Surely the proof of this is the "Wishlist", which spells out what folk want for their layout rom RTR. In many cases, a kit is available, or can be produced via "cut and shut" or whatever. Why folk can't/won't build models have been discussed here ad nauseum. Skiils aren't being taught, kits are expensive and often hard to get hold of, other hobbies, often IT based have taken preference, and folk returning to the hobby in middle age didn't learn about kitbuilding, and moreover, don't remember the days of steam, Deltics or whatever, and don't take the same inspiration from the modern railway as I did as a teen. Of course, there are exceptions , but I still think this is the rule. So the excellence of modern RTR is just the ticket - it LOOKS right, even when it isn', and usually runs much better than it used to. How many , Tony, really care whether the GC chimney is correct? I didn't know, when I built the J11 in 1972, and i'm still here to tell the tale. So I can do enough, to my own adequate but far from excellent standard, to get a reasonably accurate prototype photo. But I fear I am in a steadily decreasing minority in that I actually want to do so.

Much to the disgust of local trainspotters, re-numbering has resulted in a G5 becoming 67341 of South Blyth, and a B1 is now "common as muck" 61014 ORIBI from Heaton or Tweedmouth. The T1 from Tyne Dock may well be a "cop" but the chances of it ever having been to Little Benton in real life is improbable, to say the least. Plausible excuse? Gateshead Works had it for a casual repair, and sent it to Heaton Yard, who then used it to take an empty rake of cattle wagons to Little Benton Sidings. what rubbish...

I agree-a lovely model. Coincidentally, I was renumbering and trying to tart up my ancient NuCast G5. at the same time, I decided to have another go at balancing the front end, now I have a supply of lead flashing, stuck a bit more in the front and added a piece between the frames over the front drivers, Success ! I intended to put a photo on the layout thread, but the battery on my phone was flat. John

Mike/David (Daddyman). Thanks for the posts. I regard it a complement when modellers of your pedigree make the effort to comment on my posts. The tank supports - I remembered after reading the posts that I knew what they were - actually look a bit more substantial once painted. The camera hadn't really picked up the wire soldered to the scrap etch strip on the original post. Because I added it too late in the day, it is only superglued to the boiler, so can be removed if a better solution comes to light. I did wonder if Peco "3rd rail" might work. Thanks again John

That's a good tip, Jonathan, though a surprise given the number of locos still running on Tyneside in the 50's still carrying the Westinghouse pump. Saves me a job, though. Thanks John

One thing conspicuously missing from the Little Engines T1 kit is the reinforcing band across the top of the boiler cladding behind the dome. I spotted this first on Mik's build on his thread, then found a decent top=down photo of a loco at York. I'm actually not sure if my attempt is sufficiently chunky so I may have another go. It would actually have been better as a brass or whitemetal casting. But at least there will be something there, and I wont have to stare at it knowing something is missing.

So far, so "so-so", with the D&S ex-NER Dia 53 "Birdcage" Brake 3rd. The bogies are complete, and they couple to other stock via the Bachmann couplings. In lieu of a drawing, I used the pre-drilled holes to show where the various handles and rails went, though they don't match the only photo I found of what seems to be the same, or very similar, coach. Presumably, alterations were made during it's 50 year life, including removal by the LNER of a running board between the bogies, I'm going to omit this, and fit the underframe as a gas-lit coach with both vacuum and Westinghouse brakes (unless someone can tell me different) The bogies, underframe, body and roof are just posed for the picture, but I have bolted together all bar the roof to check they align, and have run the coach to check it goes through points and round curves without derailing.

The photos above are really helpful, Jonathan. very many thanks. John

The T1 looks excellent, Mike. Having just about completed the Little Engines version, I am painfully aware I must do better, both in the modelling and photography front. John

Something a little different. My Suburbans are largely excellent but bog-standard RTR and I have always fancied some legitimate ex-NER stock. So here is the first on road-test, a D & S Dia 51 Brake 3rd.. The kits are out of production and, amazingly, I haven't found any descriptions of previous builds, Moreover, details of the prototype are also thin on the ground, so any help gratefully received. I'm also going to resuscitate 3 Kirk ex-Lner kits to make an appropriate rake for Little Benton. The loco is a short-bunkered J72 modified from a couple of Mainline bodies on a Mainly Trains chassis.

I have the bogies assembled and bolted temporarily to the underframe, as Jonathan describes above. they have been tested on curves and through pointwork and all seems well .The loco in the photo is my "short-bunker" J72, originally a Mainline loco on a Mainly trains chassis. Jonathan - if you have photos of the underframe details of the Dia 53 or similar, that would be great. Mike - I 'll try your roof suggestion on the T1

Tyne Dock's last T1 (on test) runs light back to its' home. There is a short on the leading bogie wheel which I hope will be cured by a smear of Araldite on the chassis, but otherwise all seems well. It passes the DJH D20 which waits to take empty stock to Central, and then off to Alnwick. Tyne Dock was an easy shed to "bunk", but I was too young to see their T1's , the last of which was withdrawn in 1961. But it was a great visit from 1963 or so, as lots of V2's and A1's were stored there after withdrawal..

HI Paul. Your description seems to confirm what I suspected, but if I try to spell out what I think happens, can you confirm (or correct) my assumptions. The bogie is attached with a 10ba nut, via a bush, to the bogie platform, which is then screwed through the underframe into the strip you described, which has been soldered to the bottom of the coach sides. John Wizard, like everyone else, is showing that sheet "out of stock" The HMRS site has taken my money for one, so we wwill see what happens, Thanks for the replies, John