rowanj

Hi Doug. Thanks for the post. I have a couple of Dremels _ my late father passed one on to me , and they are great. I used them predominantly for carving lumps from RTR coaches and then tidying joints in the soldered etch replacement sides and they are great for cleaning solder. I also use them when bodging plastic RTR loco bodies. As you say, once you have one, they quickly become indispensable. Next thread .. I don't know. The idea here was to try to show that a beginner could produce something worthwhile, and I'm not sure if another set of posts would add much. Best wishes John

Tony I can't say I encountered any difficulties other than those caused through my own inexperience. I managed to get away with a live chassis because I simply did not consider doing it differently. I used the Gibson wheels as suggested by another modeller via my thread. I found the leading bogie tricky to get running without derailing. No doubt my trackwork was a factor.I fitted the Hornby bracket as on the A3/4 which has sorted that out. There are parts of the loco..pipework and the like..not included in the kit, or referred to in the instructions, ( which I found rather sparse ).. However I imagine anyone with even modest experience would make a decent job of this kit. Of course, its your fault I started it in the first place !!! John

I have followed the RTR/ kit-building discussions on this thread with interest as I have been attempting my first etched kit, not least under the benign influence of TW. At the same time as I was gritting my teeth on a PDK B16/1, my family were giving me for Christmas the quite sublime Hornby D16 and J50. This thread seems to attract pictures from professionals or amateurs of equal skill, and I'm therefore highly nervous about showing my effort. However, in the spirit shown by Tony's oft-posted statement that he likes to see people having a go, here is my B16/1. I don't see any point in adding to the great RTR debate, other than to say I thoroughly enjoyed building the kit hope other people will have a go. I started a thread over on Kitbuilding to show how I got on. Regards John

To my relief, although I wont be entering any competitions with it, I have managed to end up with a working model which looks like a B16/1. The attached photos show the finished model, though I'll do a bit of tidying up where I've been a bit heavy-handed with the rust. To say I enjoyed this exercise is an understatement. I certainly would recommend folk to have a go but with certain caveats, and I'd be very interested to see what more experienced builders think. 1 - Kit building is not cheap. Assuming you already have paint and transfers, you don't get much change out of £200 by the time you add wheels and motor. For the same money, I got a Hornby D16 and J50 from my family for Christmas and they certainly look better than my effort. I certainly won't build a kit for which there is a modern RTR, but luckily that still leaves plenty of scope. 2- I underestimated the tools I needed. My iron wasn't hot enough, so that was another £50. I also invested in new files, knives and blades and tweezers. Obviously these will be reused but are still an initial cost for new builders. 3- Soldering these kits is a combination of art, science and magic, Soldering bits of wire and even etch coach sides didn't really prepare me for this. There is a wide range of advice on the net and Mike(meg)'s post here is particularly helpful. I finally found a method which worked though I was well through the kit before it happened and I'm not there yet. 4- PDK kits are perfectly suitable for new builders, but need to be made alongside a raft of photographic and written info to supplement the instructions. There were a number of added details to fabricate - pipe runs, cylinder bolts,etc - which are very obvious on the real thing but not present in the kit, and are not referred to in the instructions, Research told me that experienced builders have personal preferences in the order in which they assemble their locos, so blindly following the guidance in the kit in the way I used to build plastic kits might not be the best way forward. The secret seems to be to plan ahead to identify where smaller parts will be difficult to get the iron to and work out the best time to fit them. ArthurK's instructions seem particularly good at helping you do this. 5- Start with a simpler loco by all means as a matter of principle but build a kit of a loco you really want. Tenders are relatively simple, but Walchaerts valve gear isn't. Leading and trailing bogies are an added complication to be taken into account to ensure trouble-free running. So here are the photos to conclude this thread from my perspective. My thanks once again to those who offered such valuable help and support over the last month. John

Some really useful tips from Mike. I invested half way through this exercise in an Antex 50 watt temperature adjustable iron and it made life so much easier. It was astonishing, to me, how high I needed to set the temperature to get solder to flow on the footplate. The thick PDK brass is a good and bad thing, I suppose, in that it needs more heat and is tougher to form, but holds its' final shape and is less prone to crinkling or distorting. The B16 has been through the paintshop and I've begun the lining. The model is based on an excellent colour photo of 61248 in store in 1959 at York before emerging for its' last season in the following Spring. I intend to weather it but not as "hard" as the state of the loco in the picture. So my next and last photos will be the completed loco. I've thoroughly enjoyed this kit,Though I haven't found it straightforward, anyone with experience will make a much better fist of it than me. Getting the bogie to run was a problem after all, despite it seeming to run well on the first couple of trials. My track isn't the flattest and I finally adapted Micklner's suggestion to use a Hornby A3/4 style fitting which allowed more play. All seems well now.

The chassis is now complete with representation of cylinder draincocks and guardirons fitted. Neither of these items were in my kit, and the latter, particularly, should have been offered , I would have thought. I'll now give the loco body a good clean before fitting the last of the detail fittings, for which I'll use superglue. then it's into the paint shop.

I fitted the bogie with a cut down spring to assist running and, to my surprise, it worked perfectly, even on my tightest curves. I'm looking to fit representations of the cylinder draincocks but struggling to see the correct style. TW has fitted a rod projecting forward from the centre of the front cylinder cover, but the photo of the loco I'm modelling doesn't seem to have one. In fact, the only photo I can find which does is in lner livery. Was the removal a later BR mod ? Any information gratefully received. John

Thanks Dave - another useful tip to add to those already offered, The body etches are nearly completed so I chanced a few photos to highlight the areas which I could attend to before adding the whitemetal castings. One is attached, I've made some improvement to the centre splasher, and will straighten the steampipe and handrail where a couple of knobs and a joint have come loose. I also keep losing the lampiron forward of the chimney. I made a stab at replicating the pipework under the RH cab step, and also a pipe which comes out of the RH smokebox side, The handrails on the footplate above the leading pair of steps, as well as the 2 very small steps on the smokebox door need to be added, The loco actually, at least to my eyes, looks better in the flesh than in the photo, (honest} and I've just given it a good run-in round the layout and am pleased with the running. The Highlevel gearbox/motor was a doddle to put together and I'll certainly use them again.

If I was 26 rather than 66 I might be bothered but as it is, I just don't care. I'm much more gratified by the help of modellers I've been following for years. The PDK metal is really tough stuff. I need to drill some holes for pipework and a hand-held pin vice hardly touches it. Mike's comment about starting with a difficult kit interested me. I'm not sure how genuinely difficult the B16 is. There are a couple of curves to make but otherwise the kit seems to be an issue in routine soldering with well designed slots for the key parts, so any errors are mine rather than any intrinsic difficulty with the kit. And the B16 was a loco I wanted. I'm already looking at the B16/2. Stupid boy (old man).. However we continue to make progress....just. John

Thanks Mike and all the best to you, too, Believe me, I'm all to familiar with how photos show up defects - it's why I will never take "selfies" I'm also truly grateful for most of the advice I've received - less so from the couple of PM's who suggested I should bin the soldering iron and stick to RTR. But I'm actually enjoying the process, however it turns out, and the main point of this thread was to show others that you don't need to be an expert to produce a working model which approximates the prototype... or at least try to do so. John

I'm starting to think I might get a B16 out of all that metal. The chassis runs nicely and the basic shell looks reasonable. The cab roof is just tacked at one corner to check the look, and the remaining work seems to be cosmetic detail. Reading earlier posts, I seem to have chuntered on about the PDK instructions, I suppose my only previous point of reference was Wills/SEF, DJH and Nu Cast which were all pretty comprehensive. I think as long as what comes in the kit is read alongside photos and other reference books, which seems to be an assumption by PDK, then the info in the kit will be adequate. There are a couple of places where the instructions themselves mislead me. - the cylinder supports and rear handrail for example, - but most of the errors were mine. As the next batch of work is detailing, I'll make this the last post until it's time for priming/ painting, which will be Halfords Satin Black and Modelmasters transfers.

.You certainly are doing well for your first build. Well I'm not so sure but its kind of you to say so.The D16 looked lovely with my rake of Hornby/Comet Gresley,s straight out the box, and then I looked at the brass monstrosity. With what little modelling time I had I managed to get the splashers fitted and cab handrails fixed as well as handrails to one side of the boiler, soldered from inside as suggested. I also fitted safety and shifting valves as this seemed easier to do before fitting the boiler. The brass whistle seems to be missing. Given the appeal not to overburden A&E during the holidays, I have not sought attention for my soldered hands. Looking at photographs of the real thing, I see I have made an error with the cylinder support bracket, which is actually a 2 piece fitment on the B16, unlike the Q6 for example. I followed the kit instructions, honest.Another repair job to do... John

That's how I'll do the work on the loco body.With experience and hindsight it's the obvious way to go. I suppose kit designers need to assume a level of knowledge in their product, but PDK instructions don't even mention things like handrail knobs and other detailed parts. This is an observation, not a complaint. To do a loco like the B16, I've needed to do a fair bit of research to see where things go and identified quite a bit of extra detail not included in the kit. To be fair, I enjoy doing it and have a lot of material to hand, but I suspect some folk would be discouraged. Not me, though..I plough on regardless.

Not the greatest photos but I hope they show that the tender has turned out adequately - the next one will be better. There are plenty rough edges, but the photo I'm using as a template shows the prototype had a good few too. That's not an excuse for lack of quality of my work. I have been using a 25w iron which I have found to be erratic when trying to fit smaller detail parts such as handrail knobs to the tender body. I found the tender body absorbed the heat and made making a clean joint difficult. Obviously another technique to learn but I may invest in a variable wattage iron if I do all this again. I'm given to understand Santa is bringing me a Hornby D16/3. No doubt its' finish will laugh at my effort but its a moot point which will give me greater pleasure in the long run.

Tender sub-chassis completed and painted. The etch is very accurate and the only issue I had was tweaking the brakes and linkage to ensure the wheels didn't foul and/or cause a short. Progress has also been made with the tender body, not least following Arthur's helpful post, and it really only needs buffers and handrails. I prefer a hook and bar to connect loco and tender and this will be added next . More indulgence sees loco and tender posed, this time with chimney and dome. To the disgust of LNER fans, my loco will be in BR lined black, so I'm intending to follow TW;s suggestion and use lining transfers to suggest the boiler bands. I'll also copy Nerron's proposal and use 16ba nuts on the smokebox saddle to reproduce the very obvious feature visible on all photos of B16/1;s, Thanks again to all who have passed on help - it really is appreciated.

I hope that these comments are useful they are not intended as criticism. ArthurK On the contrary, your comments are very helpful. I think I have been very lucky to keep the tender body square given the error in seating the etch correctly. To the naked eye, it looks OK. I have also managed to resite the coal rails and this makes the overall look seem much better. The tender sub chassis is in the paint shop and only a few more detailing parts are needed before a good clean up and the tender body can join it. Famous last words??

A bit more progress made, as shown in the photos. The chassis now runs though when the footplate is fitted , there is some shorting by the uninsulated drivers, so a bit of judicial filing will e needed. The tender is virtually complete as far a the etchings are concerned. The curves were as tricky as I expected them to be to make without bars and I think the final result is best described as "adequate". The etched parts were usually a good fit though the photos show a gap at the bottom of the tender sheet where it meets the footplate. I missed this in real life and still have to peer at it to see what I did wrong. I'll flood some solder in it when I fit the valance. The instruction refer to "brass strip as contained in the kit" but all I can find is round rod and I'm sure the valance should be square, Scrap etch will probably suffice. Edit - looking at Mike and TW's posts and photos, I think my coal rails are too far back. They hopefully will be easy enough to re-set. Other than forming the curves, the only other real issue I had was with the illustration of the tender footplate. This has a small hole at one end which appears to be the front, so I merrily soldered the drawbar and bufferbeam as instructed. When I came to check the fit of the tender sides and rear it was obvious that the illustration was the wrong way round. A quick check of Mike Edge's build confirmed this and, being at an early stage, this was easy to correct by unsoldering and repositioning. What do I think so far? Well, overall I,m still pretty happy and confident that I'll finish up with a working model. I could have started with something easier, and probably should have. PDK kits are a good entry point for new builders but care is needed when following instructions. I have a good supply of B16 photos and suspect that some additional detailing - mainly just pipe runs and the like -may be needed The smokebox saddle also looks a bit bare. But I'm getting there.... I think....

It's another first for me using Highlevel products, ironic as they are based just down the road and are always at local shows. It went together very well,- no meshing problems. If this build goes ok, I'm thinking about a J19 and the Loadhauler range would seem a good option for this. Thanks John

Motive power is Mashima 1624 with Highlevel Roadrunner+. It went together without any problem. I decided to drive on the rear axle as this will need only minimal amount of metal removing from the boiler bottom.. It seems really smooth - I can certainty recommend this combination for easy and accuracy of assembly. Hopefully, the next couple of days will see the chassis running, so I'll not bother to pst any more photos on the rest of the body assembly unless any problems arise which would be of interest to fellow novices. I'll return when I start on the tender. Bogie wheels are now Gibson's and I think they make a huge improvement.

Pic of RH side, having added the saddle and cab floor. All fitted well after minimal fettling. I had intended to use a DJH GB1 motor/gearbox which I had in the spares box, driving the rear axle with the motor body sitting over the middle axle. This would have needed a small amount removed from the boiler bottom. However the gearbox is just too big and pushes against the cab rear. Plan B is a Mashima 1620 with a Highlevel Gearbox, which should sit more conventionally over the middle axle. Growing confidence has persuaded me to order appropriate bogie wheels from Alan Gibson as Mike(meg) suggested, The second photo is my self-indulgence - the boiler and cab roof just posed to see the effect. It looks a bit like a B16/1 doesn't it????

The latest photo shows the chassis all but ready for cleaning and , to quote the instructions " your chassis is now ready to paint " . I had a bit of a disaster getting the crossheads sorted. I found the folds at the etch very fragile, eve when strengthened with solder filler, and when it came to fitting the support bracket, there were a couple of breakages, Repairing by soldering was not too arduous, but there are so many soldered joints in a relatively small location that one loosened as another was replaced. But I got there eventually after much cursing and heated finger ends. I've managed to lose a soldered nut, which is the one used to screw the leading bogie in place. Typically , its located just below the cylinder bracket, which I'm certainly not going to remove after all this. I think there is just enough room to capture the nut with a cocktail stick and get the iron in. Otherwise I suppose I'll have to resort to epoxy. I'll start to dress the soldered joints next, and move on to the loco body.

Thanks Mike. I was never happy with the bogie wheels in the photos but was using them to check clearances. Once I'm sure all this is going to work,I will get something more akin to the prototype. The Gibson wheels are a good suggestion, though I've never used them.Today's very limited work involved resiting the cylinders to centre them and put in the prototypical slant. Coupling rods were soldered up and, amazingly, there are no tight spots.Nuts were soldered to allow loco body and chassis to be screwed together to check straightness as I, stupidly, removed the valance former which would have aided rigidity. I'll know next time. Thanks for all the help so far. It's really useful to get feedback and tips from such accomplished and experienced modellers. John

Thanks Ron.At the moment the cylinder is just tacked at the front to check the clearances for slidebar and crosshead and the bogie. It needs removed in any event to solder the nut for the bogie. Photographs are cruel but helpful..the cylinders are actually straight but need,as you say, a slightly backward slant.They were also not perfectly centred, but at least I know that it will work. I'll also add weight to the bogie as suggested. Thanks again. John

HI Mick. The bogie has a slot, similar to but nothing like as wide, as the Hornby type. I see Mike Edge widened his and I suspect I'll end up doing the same. The suggested fixing method is a screw passing from the bottom of the bogie through the groove and a hole in the bottom spacer and then fastened by a nut. The bogie, being etched, is very light and to give better traction I suspect a spring will be needed. I'm keeping the final fitting option open until I can a decent test on my unforgiving trackwork,

The issue reported by many B16 builders is the limited clearances of the cylinders and bogie. I faffed around on the front end for a while, finding that even on relatively large radius curves, the bogie wheels fouled the chassis and the wheels touched the cylinders. Doubtless part of that is down to my ham-fistedness, In the event I removed almost all of the front and rear metal from the cylinder block, leaving only the metal of the cylinders themselves. I hope the picture shows what I mean. Once soldered to the chassis, the block is still sufficiently solid and robust. I also took some metal from the front of the chassis to give some additional clearance for the bogie wheels. Following Nerron's helpful post, I pared back the bearing which supports the crosshead rod and began to fold up the cylinder bracket and promptly made a real mess of it. I struggled to see from the instructions which way the folds went, and found, not unexpectedly, that some fettling would be needed to fit them into the cylinder block. So inevitably, I broke some of the etched joints. Luckily they soldered back together, and the crossheads run smoothly in the guides. I trust I'll be able to clean up the worst of the solder joints before I come to the painting stage. Re the query on the fold-up chassis, it seems to be only the front and centre driving wheels which are compensated - the instructions tell you to remove the circular etches then solder bearings into the 2 balance bars. I'll pm this bit of the instructions if Jub25565 wishes. As a complete novice to etched kits, I haven't come across anything so far which I couldn't sort out, and I imagine experienced builders would find this chassis a doddle. Finally, I wish I had a heated workshop or a wife who wouldn't mind me soldering in the kitchen. John