craigwelsh

Sorry, I was meaning pedantic about your spelling (spings). You are correct though in that only one set of sprung buffers makes the difference but i'm not trying one ended stock for that. ABS brake gear is indeed fine once fettled but I don't have a stock of it do it was worth me folding up some etched ones instead. The tumblers may vex a few but frankly you could leave them off for the amount you see of them. The ability to tweak brake to wheel fit is the important bit for me. LMS 17' 6" underframe first then 12' although I was thinking BR type more than RCH but once I have the basic design and the w-irons off the long underframe it should be quick for some Felix Pole types. I was happy Dave Bradwell liked them although Geoff Kent agrees with you that its slightly too detailed

Spillers millers would help with the last lines that seems to have bakers in. I last came down for the dentist and went to the new John Lewis they opened in town, Cardiff Arms male voice was singing there. Not sure when i'm next down now before xmas. Possibly when I can plan a trip to Neath to get some colliery plans.

This one completely passed me by unless its a reference to the Microsoft house stylee? Now I could be pedantic about spings but I won't . Tbh i'm hoping Colin at Alan Gibson can turn me some ferrules to fit to my bulk of wagons and until then i've left the Bachmann ones in place. With the buffers doing work though and relatively long trains I want them to work. Well you might find the levers etches useful sometime if not the full chassis. Its a pity I don't get notified about new comments here .

If anyone got etches off me at Scaleforum and I haven't messaged you, let me know what you think of these instructions: 9ft_Wooden_Instructions_partA.pdf 9ft_Wooden_Instructions_partB.pdf (Thanks Andy for gettingpdf format added to uploads ) I've also uploaded a gallery of prototype shots which i've attached to this entry which may be of use. Progress continues on further etch work when i'm not building track for the club. Craig

There were some 3/16 on that page as well as 1/8" for 4mm but the outside diameter was a little large. I'd always thought the bearings were a bigger cost in the Hobby Holidays package but they are quite cheap when you use your own hornguides. I looked at these for 4mm but they are still slightly big on the OD http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3Racing-Double-Metal-Shield-Bearing-1-8x1-4x7-64-10-pc_W0QQitemZ170358147891QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item27aa230b33&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

To: Bristol GW, got that bit but the from line has eluded me even with a bit of squinting.. I assume you wont be modelling that wagon however . I have a luggage label from Neath that i'm quite happy with as the destination is Altrincham up here. That is a GWR label though from 1902. The oldest thing I have and from a similar hand to the writer of yours is a letter to the Manager of the N+B railway in 1874 from a lawyer about a farmer. This recommends recompense for the killing of his sheep that have gotten onto the line even though he has spent a 'considerable expense' in trying to prevent it. I love the ps - "You will observe, we have not been hasty in the matter" The correct latching of gates in mentioned in the 1958 sectional appendix too 'to prevent sheep from gaining access to the line from the colliery'. Its nice when these historical documents are available to tie in. I didn't however buy the L&Y rulebook from 1862 I was reading on the weekend, yours for ??185...

Just to put up a more recent post than the archive stuff i've been importing here is a sample of the plain lengths of track i've been working on for the re-laying: There consist of 4 60ft panels each of 24 sleepers and are built from Exactoscale components. I only lay the one rail at home and the other will be laid at the club once its been curved to match the template and any gauge widening has been added in. I'd previously done a length of 26ft panels that will go on the gauge widened curved. When building that panel we ran into a bit of a problem when I realised the chairs were opposite (3-bolt but one on inside, two outside) to the chairs laid in the goods yard. Hmm, which was wrong, well it turned out the new 8000 chairs we had were LSWR ones! Quick phone call for Andy G to Exactoscale who checked it out and they discovered they'd had 'S1' chairs back from the moulding company that were actually LSWR type. That slowed us down for a week or two until we could swap over our bits at Scaleforum. We are now back on track with the correct chair! Unlike the LSWR chairs though the correct chairs feature flash accross the jaws of the chair, the more popular mould has obviously seen far more use. Its a bit of a pain as quite a few chairs decide to snap in two rather than slide onto the rail. We will need some of these in the future to cover up some rivets on pointwork though. Show preparation, proper work and our etching has variously delayed group memebers but good progress is also being made on the new pointwork that we can hopefully start laying soon. Craig

Its a Judith Edge from the look of it so i'd think it was something more esoteric than that. Someone at the Manchester club bought an outside framed loco without rods off them as his first kit on the weekend (comes with a BullAnt for drive). He's making a nice job of it so far although the buffer beam laminations look interesting. There were a few butt joints in his kit where I would expect folds or tab and slot (things fitting to the footplate for example) but it did have some nice photos in his instructions. Hope you enjoy the build Kenton.

I went along to Dean Hall yesterday evening, for the first time since last month. I took my camera and this time it had a memory card in it so I took a few pictures. I'd better leave Andy or Craig to explain how the big template was produced and printed - I'm afraid the "dark arts" of templot and template production are a bit beyond me at the moment but they were putting it together last night and trying it out for size on the layout. I have to say that I think it looks pretty impressive. So here are a few pics showing this with Andy, Craig, Ralph and Dick. Note one of Craig's wagon etches cunningly placed in the corner of one of the photos. I have to say I think this looks pretty good in the flesh :thup John (knottyjohn) _______________________ A bit of an update as we've not reported back for nearly a month. Progress has been a bit slower than expected but we need to get this part right. The fiddleyard throat to the first six roads has been lifted and cleared as has the old double junction. The old droppers and wiring has been removed allowing the trackbase to be filled and sanded, this is nearly complete but needs a bit more work in some parts of the fiddleyard - PVA can be very stubborn. The main cause of the slow progress has been the need to do further work on the track design. The loop has now been cut back so that it joins back in before the junction, the previous arrangement was incorrect due to the repositioning of the junction and also the canal bridge. Unfortunately this means that the turnout I'd previously completed needs to be rebuilt. :wall The crossing and slip arrangements have also been very slightly (but it still altered nearly all the crossing work!) to give a better and more prototypical arrangement. The drawing work for the front at least is now complete and last night saw Craig and myself crawling around Dean Hall's floor sticking rather large sheets of paper together, hopefully KnottyJohn will be along with some photos. This wasn't the easiest of tasks trying to get everything to line up but we think we've got it near enough and the alignment when placed over the layout was satisfactory. This now means that we can get on with the small amount of woodwork required and start putting the balsa back into place. We've lined up an electrician to rework the fiddle yard control panel, though with interlocking required on the front now we may well have a look at the Merg CBUS system. This, hopefully, will give us the flexibility to be able to modify the fiddle yard later without having to completely rework the control panel again and also enable interlocking to be incorporated on the front. It's early days and we've no idea of the cost yet. Also on the electrics, New Hey's outing to the Members' Day has brought the realisation that the layout needs to be sectionalised (don't confuse with isolating sections etc) so as to prevent a short in one location stopping the whole layout and also to protect the controller. The shorting issue has always been a problem but until people started putting solutions forward for Andy C's issues we weren't aware that there was anything that could be done about them. The solution in the short term is to use car brake light/indicator bulbs though an electronic solution may be implemented later. Most of the track feed wiring needs to be redone anyway so designing power blocks (sections) in at this stage is not a big issue. Hopefully next week will see reconstruction work begin in earnest. Andy G _______________________ Last night was good as it both marked a successful sign-off on a newly finalised track layout which fitted without issue as well as the first night in a while of forward progress where we've now reversed the layout as far as it needs to go and we can really start going forward again. The car bulbs were a nice revelation, i'd always wanted to put a breaker in the fiddle yard anyway but also knew of the problems my Dynamis had with them. Nice simple engineering that I sometimes overlook works anyway and it just beens we need to be careful what we connect our dropper wires too when the track is relaid to ensure we can put bulbs/breakers on different parts in the future. Plenty of track to get on with although in my case a finished wagon etch is the priority so we can build a few ready for the October show (and people stop nagging to buy some ). The plan also means the scenic guys now know the new boundaries of all their hills etc. Craig

First part of an update from last night's progress. It was decided that as the track spacing and alignment on the right hand curve would be different from the original it would be easier to start with new wood work. The initial thought was to remove the track bed entirely but it was quickly discovered that the base had been glued as well as screwed to the supports and removal would create a lot more work than anticipated. So in the absence of 4mm scale JCBs and dumper trucks etc the track gang set to with chisels Oi watch my hands you.. Trackbed demolition Half an hour later we were left with a ply base onto which a new balsa track bed could be laid, so the rest of the track bed with the exception of the goods yard was given the same treatment so that by the end of the evening we had a starting point for rebuilding (nearly just a few AJ magnets to remove once we've got the right screwdrivers available) More photos at lunch. It was bedlam last night in Dean Hall. Not only were the P4 track gang chiselling away but the 7mm Narrow Gauge group were making very loud use of a jigsaw to cut the edges of their baseboards (I think) and the P4 scenic department were busy watching the OO group leader put the final touches to the woodwork on the scenic boards Scenic work At the end of the evening the track base had been cleared and the mess removed and the track plan was placed over the layout for the first time. Thankfully it fits with only a small change to the track bed necessary other than for the new Bury lines. The final trackplan will be produced on a large format plotter thus reducing the cumulative errors I will no doubt have introduced sticking all the bits of paper together. Andy Innes points to where his point rodding now has to go, whilst Tony W tries to remove yet another AJ magnet Andy Andy G

Well, I must admit to having not heard of wiring the check rails before, but taking the belt and braces approach it will only take a little bit of effort to put some wire across. I was a little sceptical of Martin's comments about bolt holes in the end of check rails but having been up to Ramsbottom this afternoon to photograph the rail anchor bolts (exciting eh?) two of the three turnouts that I could see had check rails with bolt holes in them. Firstly an outside view of the anchor bolts Rail anchor bolts at Ramsbottom It turns out that these 'side' bolts are all over the turnouts as shown in this side shot of the checkrails and crossing vee So it looks like I'll need to find a way of producing them, first thoughts are resin casting. And now those check rail holes Anybody know what the dimensions are? I would guess 1" holes 2" from the end and then a further four inches. Actual modelling not an awful lot of progress this weekend. I've redrawn the tandem turnout for the third time and I'm finally happy with where everything now fits. This and the B8 that fits toe to toe with it have now been laid out and all of the sleepers cut and prepared - I suppose that is quite a bit of work in itself. I've started on the common crossing but couldn't get it together correctly last night so gave it up to try again when I wasn't so tired. One thing that had puzzled me was that the Exactoscale templates show the break between the wing rail and the closure rail between the fourth and fifth chair whereas Templot shows it as between the third and fourth - which was right? I could just make out from photographs in books that it looked as though Martin was correct and having looked at the examples at Ramsbottom today these backed that up, but why do Exactoscale show it between the next sleepers? Wing Rail Length Also no sign of scrape marks on the check rails. Andy G

OK, so getting back to the topic here are some photos of the first turnout made this week, its for the end of the loop. Initial Construction - timbers laid out and chairs slid onto some of the rails. Electrical tags have been fitted to some of the rivetted timbers to provide easier and less obvious electrical connections. Overview of the completed turnout. The vee and stock rails have actually been extended to include the closure rail to the up line turnout and the track up to the buffer stop. Crossing Vee Slide chairs - brass and copperclad to prevent the unsupported stock rails wandering inwards And finally, especially for Craig, three shots of the rail anchors. The anchors themselves are complete but the fittings to the inside of the switch rails and outside of the stock rails need to be sorted - I want to see a better photo of the real thing before I do anything. (The cosmetic chairs are deliberately missing from the rivetted timber, I'll fix them once the turnout has been fixed in place and tested as they will need the rivets grinding back.) Rail Anchors Rail Anchors 2 A really cruel close up - must do better with the focusing. Rail Anchor - close up Right, got to get on and build the next lot now as I've finished the design of the tandem so it can be built along with the headshunt cross over. Andy G

Just a couple more images from Monday nights track removal. Shades of Beeching circa 1966ish perhaps! Tony

One of the problems we've had with the trackwork was the realisation just over twelve months ago that the junction should have a trailing crossing in front of it. After deliberating what to do the decision was made to knuckle down and produce it. The problem was that the junction is on the side of the layout, to the right of the bottom of the first picture and therefore the only location that the cross over could go was on the bend, which was already closing in on the minimum that you'd want large locos to negotiate at speed in P4. It was a difficult task taking most of the year to complete it. When the opportunity arose to relay the trackwork the chance to redraw it all in Templot was grasped as it was hoped that this would enable a better flow of trackwork to be achieved - we didn't have access to Templot when the mainlines were drawn x number of years ago. To cut to the chase the radius across the crossing came out at 38" which is too tight to propel wagons across without buffer locking and yet the turnouts were aesthetically too long for the location. A number of options were drawn up, none of which were entirely satisfactory until Dick Petter came up with a suggestion completely off the wall - move the junction onto the front of the layout. The immediate thought was that there was no way we would get the tracks back round to the fiddle yard in the space available and at a reasonable radius, however, a rough drawing in Templot quickly proved that there was a chance that this might work. At a group meeting everybody agreed that this new layout was a considerable improvement on the old plan and that we should if at all possible implement this. So, no longer will the junction lurk in the wings of the layout but will instead take centre stage enabling more options for the operating sequence. The original track layout can be seen in first photo repeated below. The following shows the new trackplan And a close of the main P&C work The left hand crossing will in fact be a single slip to provide the trailing cross over in front of the junction as well as providing access to the goods yard for Manchester bound trains. The left hand route at the junction takes trains to Bury and the right hand to Rochdale. For those who know the area this is in reality Castleton South Junction but moved half a mile further south and modified with the addition of a goods yard and a Manchester bound loop (the outer track). There is no station platform on the layout. The station building will be built on the bridge at the Manchester (left) end and the platforms are presumed to be on the fiddle yard side of the back scene. The reasoning behind this was that stations take up a lot of space but do not provide much in the way of operation. Progress to date has seen much of the plain track for the goods yard built as half track (one rail fixed to the sleepers prior to laying, the second rail is then gauged from the first) and laying of this was about to commence when Dick's suggestion was eagerly pounced on. It was decided that it would be prudent not to lay anything until the trackplan was finalised (the original idea was just a relaying of the track). A lot of effort has gone into the development of a Templot plan for the trackwork and this has been absolutely brilliant as Dick has been able to point out all of my mistakes before we have started to build - a lot cheaper and much less frustrating! Having somebody to hand who can advise as to what would and would not have occured trackwise has been a massive benefit to the group. The Society has thankfully allowed us to purchase a large quantity of P4 Track Co. (P4TC) parts so that we can relay the track to the highest standards. The goods yard, head shunt and loop will be laid on traditional ply sleepers with functioning P4TC chairs and the mainlines will utilise P4TC full height sleepers as well. We hope that this will give a variation in track height since the mainlines will have received more maintenance than the other lines and thereby have been slightly more raised. We may also incorporate a degree of cant on the bends. The P&C work will all be built on ply timbers whether full height or traditional half height. Dick has offered to build the double junction and will be using traditional ply and rivet techniques whereas I prefer to build using the technique suggested in Iain Rice's book, a rivet every fifth sleeper or so and functional plastic chairs in between. Hopefully once all of the cosmetic chairs and other wonderful plastic bits and bobs from P4TC have been fitted all of this will look not only consistent but very much like the prototype. I've nearly finished the first of the turnouts so I may be able to put some photos of that up over the next couple of days. Craig persuaded me to have a go at fitting rail anchors between the switch and the stock rail and right fiddly they were, but I think worthwhile - you'll have to wait for the photos to decide for yourselves. The turnout has taken longer than I'd hoped but I've been trying to get it as perfect as possible both cosmetically and functionally. Andy G

(copied from old forum) Slattocks Junction is the 18 x 13ft P4 layout being built by the Manchester Model Railway Society. The layout is being built to provide an antedote to the continual stream of P4 shunting planks. Yes, they are very good and very needed but large P4 layouts are very rare and those running large steam locos at a realistic pace are even rarer. Basically the group was bored with shunting layouts and wanted to prove that large P4 locos can work at speed on a reasonable size layout. The layout has had one outing at Scalefour North a few years back as track and bare boards and has so far proved that the large locos can run at speed and reliably. More on the layout's background can be found on the Society's web pages,http://www.mmrs.co.uk/layouts/Slattocks.html. However, we have had continual problems with the trackwork and particularly ballasting. At Christmas we had one last push to complete the ballasting. This was achieved to a level that we admit wasn't perfect but were prepared to accept. This however was followed by a complete let down with the sleepers failing to hold paint reliably, as described here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39794&hilit=painting+sleepers. The decision was taken to replace all of the trackwork as there were now just too many issues with it for it to be acceptable. As the group had already committed to host the Scalefour Society AGM last Saturday it was decided to start replacement in the goods yard and leave the main lines until after the AGM. It had been hoped to have the goods yard track replaced by last weekend but as will be described later there was a major change just as the track was about to go down. Following the AGM the opportunity was taken to photograph the layout before the demolition team moved in. The AGM was the first time that all of the scenic boards had been assembled together with the layout. As can be seen the scenic work is still very much under development. So with the last rites completed it was time for the demolition team to move in on the trackwork. The goods yard had been ballasted with sand and laid on top of paper Templot templates stuckdown with cow gum and this proved to be very easy to remove. However, the mainlines had been PVA'd directly to the balsa track base and then ballasted with Woodland Scenics and many applications of PVA so it was with some trepidation that the team set to. In the hope that we hadn't used waterproof PVA and that we might be able to dissolve it water was liberally applied. This was followed by the unceremonious ripping up of the track as Leo is showing Finally Ralph and Tony W demonstrate the removal of ballast and remaining sleepers by use of the chisel We won't really know the condition of the trackbed until our next meeting on Monday but so far it seems to be going better than we'd hoped for. What we have learnt is that firemen, water, chisels and trackbeds don't mix, the chisel takes on a surrogate role of the axe! He'll be sent back to the scenic department next week to continue his fine work there. I'll update with news of the new trackplan and construction progress tomorrow. Andy G