GWR_Modeller

You could have used a compass to draw a couple of concentric circles of about the right diameter on paper then aligned your disc on top, estimating its centering by eye, and fixed with a bit of glue.  Then mark from the other side through the paper which would have an obvious centre.  The trouble as you found with constructing perpendiculars is at small dimensions the thickness of the lines is a significant source of error.

Hi.

How things looked in a picture did matter to some company photographers.  Were not GWR official pictures of new engines taken with the engine painted grey?  And the engine was then repainted green before entering service presumably at some cost.  What was the reason for doing that, assuming I have correctly understood what was done.

Paul

Thanks.

Sorry for change of subject but...

What is the road surface around the station, it looks very pale for tarmac and the main road over the bridge is slightly darker?

Paul

Could also try following books:

Oil on the Rails                                           Alan Coppin         HMRS

Petroleum Rail Tank Wagons of Britain R Tourret

British Railway Wagons 4 Rail Tanks      G Gamble             Cheona Publications

Paul

Yes.  And if I read the thread correctly the point is also made that these particular wagons, or ones which appeared very similar with LOCO on the side supplied coal to the gas works at Swindon.  Did the Loco Dept operate the gas works or did the loco dept allow its wagons to be used for other department's coal?  Were all GWR coal wagons marked LOCO obviously excepting the Pole wagons.  There were several thousands perhaps 4000 in service during the 1930s p.  Not many in comparison to the 100,000s POW in use over GW lines.

And the wagon and hoppers have LOCO on the sides?

Hi,

I understand the railway had gas works to supply gas for carriages.  And also presumably burned coal to supply power to works.  Was this carried in coy Loco coal wagons, wagons with some different marking or private owner wagons?

Paul

Hi, Are you aware of this site?

  https://www.steamindex.com/gwrj/gwrj1.htm

All 13 volumes of GWRJ fully indexed, captions etc.  The only issue is each volume is a seperate file.

Regards, Paul

They can but they have to be egged on to apply for that rate.

15 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Thanks for this Paul, pretty much as I thought then late 20’s.

 

That Culham site was interesting, although I couldn’t find the book you referenced. Does it include the “Thames valley” GWR & SR poster as well?

 

Thanks again

Sorry I do not know. Paul

10 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Google says 1930's. E.g.: https://www.henleyherald.com/2021/06/14/hahg-lecture-the-golden-age-of-british-posters/

https://www.culhamticketoffice.co.uk/

Hi,

The above site reports the Illustrated Travel Book "Appeal of the Thames" was published March 1928.

Regards, Paul

Hi,

For images try pgs 251, 252 of Russell's Pictorial Record of GWR Coaches pt 2.

Paul

Looking at 1950s OS six inch there is just a single up siding. 

http://www.signalboxes.com/thonock-sidings.php

WW1 shell factory closed 1922.

Signal box for Thonock sidings in 1972 so something still there but not marked on maps so MoD?

9 hours ago, Tom Burnham said:

Galvanized wire trays doesn't sound like something you'd use for soft fruit. The traditional round wicker fruit baskets would go to the market in the city and then at least to the wholesaler and would eventually make their way back empty to the farm. If you went over to wire trays you'd need a big pool of them to make the system work. The Rly Mag did a series of articles in the early be 1900s on handling various special traffics including fruit but I don't recall so much of that sort of thing in the 1930s. Was there something on strawberry traffic from Calstock in the Southern Rly Mag?

The text and diagram I referred to are clear about the galvanised wire trays however I cannot imagine the fruit was put on them loose and I don't think I suggested that, rather I think they were edged shelves to stop the containers of fruit falling off during movement of the van.  I imagine the wire shelves might have been something to do with cost or weight or much more likely they were to permit the circulation of air although once they were packed the effect would be less.

Some images of historical picking show strawberry containers which do not appear to be designed to be stacked stablely filled and include 'trugs' and shallow round wicker baskets.  They are also often filled above the rim.  Of course it is possible the containers seen in field weren't used for transport and the fruit was repacked.  If not it seems obvious the trugs baskets etc would have be put on shelves to fill a wagon.  Early post war images show both larger punnets with handles and punnets in trays which if the handles folded might be stackable and even later the standard wooden friut tray with triangular corner posts can be seen packed with punnets.  I remember these before they were replaced by the heavy duty reuseable nesting plastic trays used by modern supermarkets.  Once you have a stackable unit shelving in wagons is redundant but before then it is a requirement.

There is a diagram in Russell's Coaches vol 2 p242 of a Y6 fruit van and shelving.  Four layers about 13 or 14 inches apart.  From the description of a "wooden framework" to support two different sizes of "galvanised wire trays" it does not seem like a conversion that would be done daily.  It is unclear whether a space was left behind each door to step into the van to unload or whether this space had  shelves put in as the van was packed.  A rough estimate is there was 600 to 800 sq feet of load area depending whether the floor was included.

If you packed 2 tons ie 4480 lbs that would mean something like 7lbs of soft fruit per sq ft of shelf.  I am trying to visualise that amount and it sounds alot if you need to avoid damaging the fruit for retail customers.  Apples and veg would be very different.

Hi,

Both Fairford branch sets were recorded in 1944 CWP prog as B set and Third.

The Paddington set was Brake Compo, Third 70', Two Compos, Van Third

7.40pm Padd to Birmingham, detach at Oxford

10.15pm Oxford to Fairford (SX)

6.55am Fairford to Oxford (MX)

8.40 am Oxford dep ( att to 6.30am Worcs to Padd) due Padd 10.2am.

Reading the prog closely I now think only two sets spent the night at Fairford, ie a B set and Third and either the other B set and Third (on Sat Sun) or the Padd set.

Sorry, I do not know about boards.

Paul

One more thing - both sets and the ex-Paddington coaches appear to start from Fairford.

Hi,

London Division Local carriage working programme July 1935 gives the Fairford branch two sets, each of three 8 wh non corridor stock ie Van Third, Compo, Van Third.  It notes there is an extra Third some times and milk trucks in the evening.  

The mid war programme says B set and Third as well as coaches off a Paddinton mainline train in the evening and extra thirds on Sunday.

You can find some CWP online. In other threads it has been pointed out that CWP were only part of the picture with notices often altering the standard timetable and workings.    

Regards, Paul

Good site, I came across it years ago and the writer has added alot over time.  Unfortunately in this case it does not provide an answer.

Regards, Paul

Hi,

I presume originally the churn traffic effectively took unpasteurised milk from farm to distributor in one container and the grocer(?) would sell it from high street shops and hand carts.

When pasteurisation became compulsory in the mid 1920s where was it done?  Before or after the milk was put into tankers and transported to cities?

Regards,

Paul

Insects are more efficient at converting plant material into  protein than mammals.  More calories per acres than cows and less methane.  Locust steaks anyone?

2 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

The problem with arable crops being that the land which is currently used for the cultivation of livestock is not suited to growing of arable crops (too wet / cold / hilly / rocky etc.) and it would not be possible to replace the meat with a matching amount of vegetable crop sufficient to feed everyone

There are some areas where this is true but does not change the fact that arable production in general uses much less land than livestock for the same calory output.

Goats and sheep use, or rather can use, land not suitable for arable production and traditionally did so but today sheep and cows mostly use land highly suitable for arable crops.  About 6% of western diets, by calorific value, is animal origin whereas 40% of agricultural land is used for livestock.  There is a strong correlation between per capita GDP and % of animal products in diets which is a strong indication that animal protein is a choice not a necessity.

30 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

They also get very upset when you point out that there is not enough suitable arable land to feed the western population should they all become vegetarians, never mind the entire planet.

It is my understanding that, from the point of view of calories only, livestock production uses 10 or more times as much land as arable does for an equivalent calory output.  So should the western population become vegetarian the amount of land used for food production would decrease significantly  and not increase as claimed.