david65061

As it pulled away there was a puff of smoke so was it working on diesel to? Were the shots of the electro- diesels propelling taken when there were problems with the third rail or was that usual? A fantastic clip almost want to model southern electric now.

Dear Colin Thanks for the compliment it is nice to recieve praise from such an accomplished modeller as your self. I usually use super glue to attach things to plasticard and it usually works well. I did not use it on the horn block guides a I felt I needed some adjustment time before everything sets irrevocably solid. I have never used loctite 435 so can not comment on it. Though if it has some elastic properties and is shock resistant as Pebbles suggests this might be the glue to use particularly if it has some adjustment time before it sets solid. regards David

Dear Steve There is no question that an etched brass chassis would be best and also would be the easiest to assemble. If there is a proper etched brass chassis for a build I would be tempted to use that. I have a hankering to build a class A8 and will probably use the 52f chassis. A pacific chassis would be much more complicated and the hard work would be done for you. I scratch built the chassis in plasticard as it is easier than brass, the same for the rest of the build. Cutting out frames in brass is going to take some time and don't get that much time for modelling so I can make reasonable progress in plasticard. I am always impressed to see a scratch built loco in brass as it is a bigger investment in time or it would be for me, though you also get a bettter quality model with prototypical width to cab side sheets etc. The Alan Gibson milled main frames are quite crude and you have to be careful to make sure you line the frames up square and exactly in line, not as easy as an etched kit with slots and tabs or just folding up. With the main frames you are also limited to having to use horn blocks. I have never got Alan gibson sprung horn blocks to work well the spring always seems to strong. The two locos I have tried to use them on have ended up with the springs removed the screws adjusted to sit at ride height so the horn blocks can only move down. So that leaves compensation as the only option unless you want to go to the trouble of setting up a springy beam. One of the advantages of the range though is that it is very extensive and for some prototypes this will be the only option for a commercially available product. With a plasticard chassis the frames are going to be much thicker than the prototype and you have to take care to make sure it goes together square and true. Plasticard works well with a rigid chassis as it is easy to super glue brass bearings in. I have still not proved it as a method for building compensated chassis only time will tell on that. I will probably use different chassis types in the future depending on cost and time constraints. regards David

Dear N15class thanks for the advice I will definitely do that next time. Pity I can't go back and redo the horn blocks as I did not key the plastic. Only time will tell if it will be as problem. regards David

Dear All We'll the glue set, First job was to fit the compensation beam made from two brass tubes which were a sliding fit and a brass rod soldered at right angles to bear on the axels. so with trepidation I fitted some romford wheels I bought for testing out chassis. After the problems I had had with my J26 chassis I decided I must be able to remove wheels from a chassis under test. So as Alan gibson wheels are difficult to remove I bought a set of romfords which hopefully can be reused on future chassis. I have a set of Alan gibson wheels to fit to the finished model. Any way once the coupling rods were fitted, I gave the chassis a little push and off it rolled. Fantastic! None of the fettling that the last chassis needed. How come some chassis work fine first time and others I have real problems with? The chassis was still slightly flexible so for extra strength some extra cross pieces were added and a fire box was fitted which considerably stiffens the back end of the chassis. The fire box considerably reduces the width of the chassis between the back wheels so I have ordered a slim liner+ gear box from high level kits which is only 7.2 mm wide so should fit nicely in the fire box. the cross bracing can be seen particularly on the underneath shot but it is not to visible from the top. The chassis is quite stiff now. After testing out the chassis I discovered one of the horn block etches was not too well stuck so I used some super glue to reattach it and added super glue to the other guides to make sure they remain stuck. I'm not sure if I'm at fault or may be epoxy resin is not the best glue to use with plasticard. Something to investigate in the future perhaps? Now the chassis needs detailing and painting before the Alan gibson wheels can be fitted. regards David

Dear All Quite a while since I last did something on this model. I have just bought some wheels and coupling rods from Alan Gibson so I was inspired to to some work. I have decided to have a go at making the plasticard chassis work. I found some one on the forum who has built a chassis out of card http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79458-a-loco-chassis-from-card-now-with-a-video-of-it-working/ so I thought I might as well have a go with my plasticard. On checking the chassis I had built for the fit of the horn blocks I discovered that I had some how moved the middle cut out off centre so first thing was to add some small strips in to recentre it. Once they had set I sanded the inserts smooth then I expoxyed in the horn block guides using the new alan gibson coupling rods to hold every thing at the correct distance. It is setting as I type so I will have to wait until tomorrow to see if every thing is OK. regards David

Hi That is a wonderful engine it certainly is starting to look the part. How are you going to power it? Alan Gibson brake shoes for the 03 diesel shunter include an outside crank for a 2mm axle. They are made of plastic so it may be possible to shape it for a more realistic look. Of course needing 4 will mean you need 2 packs. Keep up the good work and keep us posted. regards David

Dear all I have assembled the frames but I have a bit of a problem in that with the horn blocks fitted I will have less room to fit cross pieces to brace the chassis, so at present they are a bit flexible. So I have three courses of action open to me. 1. fit the horn blocks and see if I can get enough cross bracing. 2. Make some new rigid frames or 3. Buy some brass frames. I am leaning towards the 3 option as I have been assembling some Alan Gibson frames for my J26 on my other thread, and they seem to be going ok. I am sure some people will be thinking told you so but that is just the way it goes some times. Mean while I have been transferring some of my other models. As I have shown them before I think I can allow my self to post them here as I am quite pleased with the way they have come out. My J25. I ran out of small crests so on one side of the tender it has a crest and the other side it has british railways written out in full. Not very prototypical but you can't see both sides at once. It is numbered 65673 and on one side it is like the picture in Northumberland and durham railway pictorial 1948 - 1967 by Brian J. Dickinson. This was a Kirkby Stephen loco. I continue the Kirkby Stephen theme with my other J21 which is finished as 65033 when it pulled the last j21 hauled train over Stainmore. regards David

Dear Sandy No problem with hijacking the thread I'm always happy to see other peoples models. They are very nice models, but there is nothing sensible about that black the lining must have taken you hours. The only sensible colour for steam engines is plain unlined black it makes painting so much easier. David

Dear All I think a tender full of coal might be a good idea then the absence or not of a water dome will not be a problem. I have made a start on the loco frames. I am doing a little experiment with this loco as I am going to fit compensation into a plasticard chassis. A first for me. While thinking about the build it occurred to me that I could glue the horn blocks onto the plasticard with epoxy resin. I am using some high level horn blocks which are very good quality. In fact I wished I had used them on my j26 rather than the perserverance ones. If it does not work I just remove the glue from them and buy some alan gibson milled frames to fit them to instead. Again I used the drawing of the loco to base the frames on. I also used the coupling rods of my j26 build as I will buy some identical ones for this job when I purchase the wheels from alan gibson. Pritt stick was used to glue the drawing on to 40thou plasticard. Then I marked on the actual shape of the frames I needed. The frames were cut out with a fresh blade in the scalpel. There is a slight miss match between the drawing and the actual coupling rods so I used the coupling rods to mark the axle centres and drill them out. I used drills in the axle cntres to hold the two frames together so I could shape them to the same shape. Once the frames were filled to shape I moved the drill bits to the holes for the brake rigging so I could make the holes for the horn blocks. next I need to glue the horn blocks in to position and fit the compensation beam. regards David

Dear All Steve need not worry I have not given up on my J21. Not that much has been done but I have added hand rails to the tender. While at the Peterborough Show I bought some castings from D.M.R. Products A white metal N.E.R. tender water filler and N.E.R Water Dome. I thought they would do for my J21. The water filler is now glued on to the top of the tank but when I looked at some pictures of J21s I came to the conclusion that they don't have water domes. So unless you no other wise and j21s actually had water scoops on their tenders I have wasted money David

Dear all I have made the tender chassis out of 30thou plasticard. Again the drawing is glued to the plasticard with pritt stick and a new scalpel blade is to cut out the frames. Brass bearings are then glued into the axle holes with super glue. Cross pieces are then glued ready for the frames to be joined together. Axles were put into the frames to hold them square as they are glued together. It would have been sensible to have wheels on the end of them and to rest it on a piece of glass so it is all level and square, but I need to buy some wheels so jumped ahead. Only time will tell if this was the right course of action. Next I need to do the loco chassis but I will have to wait until I have bought some wheels and coupling rods. regards David

Hi Nelson, I would be really pleased to hear that I have inspired you to have a go at building your own engine. Having seen your own modelling I particularly liked your ner bird cage brake van (subject close to my own heart) I am sure you have the skills to make your own loco. I have always liked the midland style 2-6-0s that ran in Ireland. One of the benefits of modelling NCC is that it not main stream (no disrespect meant) and you will end up with a unique model. As I have said before give it a go. With scratch building the worse that can happen is that you waste your time if it all goes wrong at best you have a unique loco that you can feel justifiably proud of. The bearings that I have used lately are from intercity models (www.intercitymodels.com) but I have used other suppliers in the past particularly Alan Gibson. As they are such a simple thing I do n't think any suppliers could manage to get them wrong. You could even use pieces of brass tube if you can get it with an internal diameter of 1/8inch. I have never come across jarvis scenics plasticard but I imagine as it is a branded product it will be good quality. I would not recommend using the plain unbranded sheets of plastic you find in some model shops. They may be fine but who knows? It is difficult to describe but you can almost tell how good a sheet of plastic is by touching it and feeling how it cuts with a scalpel. Some of the cheap unbranded sheets feel sort of oily and waxy. Please keep us informed of you progress. David

That is a very nice prototype, but I am amazed that I have never seen a picture of one before. I never new they existed. I knew the Caledonian had 0-8-0 tank engines but not tender engines. Would it be painted a lovely blue colour with lots of difficult lining or was it a sensible black? I can see why scratch building is your only option as no other loco has a wheel base like that. Unfortunately it has a very exposed and long chassis so extra cross bracing would be very visible perhaps brass sheet might be a better medium to use. Unless one of the specialist Scottish model companies produces some coupling rods I would have thought it would be easier to use Alan Gibson Universal rods than make your own from scratch. What ever you choose good luck and please keep us updated. David David

Dear All regards plasticard becoming brittle and warping and its suitability as a modelling medium. Personally I model in plasticard as it is an easy medium to work in. I do all my modelling at the dining room table and have a busy family life so with the odd half hour here and there I can easily get my gear out, do some modelling then tidy up after woods and make progress with my model as you have seen. As Colin said I am not a slave to plasticard, I do make brass kits and scratch-build in metal. If metal appears to be the best material to use I will use it. It is just that setting up to solder in the dining room and clearing up afterwoods takes so much longer and progress seems to be slower. But plasticard is sometimes the best medium to use as Colin also shows with his electric units. I think plasticard has got a bad reputation because all plasticards are not equal. I only use slaters plasticard or evergreen polystyrene sheets, (in fact I think plasticard is a trade mark of slaters) this is because I believe those two brands make a better quality plastic. My F8 model was made in slaters plasticard over 20 years ago and shows no signs of ageing. I think the unbranded plastic sheets you get in some model shops are a lower grade plastic so will age and cause problems in the future. Does MarkC know the prominence of the plasticard in his buildings. light or rather UV does effect plastic but how much depends on the quality of the plastic and how much direct sun light a model receives. My model of a Q5/2 is about 10 years old and has never been finished. ( I have a problem with the chassis. It runs fine in reverse but in forward the motor kicks once every revolution of the wheels and I have never got around to sorting it out or building another chassis; one day the motivation or inspiration might come) As you can see there is a slight yellowing of the plastic. If the model had been painted this damage could have been avoided. Again because I used good quality plasticard it is only very minor damage other wise the plastic feels fine. I imagine had I left it on a window sill in direct sunlight the damage would have been a lot worse. Perhaps people whose models are warping and brittle have them out on a layout in the sunshine all the time. At work we have big plastic tubs and if some one leaves them outside on a hot sunny day they often split soon afterwoods due to the UV damage they get. So a good rule would be not to let your plastic models get to much sun light. I would also say this is true of all your ready to run stuff to. Clive do your long term projects remain in a drawer for instance so are not getting uv damage. Plastics used to be made with some very nasty chemicals which can not be used today so I would imagine that in the past the plastics would have been more resistant to getting brittle and warping. As ingredients have been band due to there toxicity manufacturers have had to find alternatives which lead to different recipes and sometimes an inferior product. I use 2-butanone as a glue which has been available for years so I don't think a change in glue has happened, though if you put too much solvent on your plastic I should imagine you will effect how it ages in the future. I would agree with Clive that I am not doing engineering only making models. In fact I am so un engineering like that for instance I will mark the centre of a piece of material by eye and this will be good enough for my purposes though an engineer would be having kittens over the poor standard of work man ship. Today at the show in Peterborough there was an o gauge lay out (Sorry I cant remember the name but it was very big and had GWR and southern models on it and it was very inspiring) behind our layout. One of the operators was showing us his models he had milled out the chassis from solid brass bar and everything was perfectly true and square. After 10 years of use there was no wear because the tolerances that it had been made to were so fine. That is engineering and I would never make a claim to be doing engineering. It is some thing that I can look up to and admire but I know my limits. David

Dear All Thanks for the encouraging comments I'll try to keep my enthusiasm going. I have already made the tender chassis details to follow. dear Steve You might as well have a go to build your chassis in plasticard at worse you will have wasted an evening and have some useless pieces of plasticard. You will still have your wheels, bearings and coupling rods to use in a brass chassis you will then have to make. You will even get some practice in how to make a chassis. For both a plasticard and a brass chassis I would use the coupling rods to mark the axle holes. It is critical to get these measurements spot on or your chassis will never run smoothly. Make sure you also end up with two identical frames or you will put a twist in to the chassis when you join them together. I use some clever axle jigs which are sold for setting horn blocks to make sure every thing is square when I glue the frames up. The axle jigs are nothing fancy just axles with pointy ends which you slide the coupling rods on to, I can't remember where I bought mine but I think a few places sell them and they only cost a few quid, a worthwhile investment. I would use 40 thou plasticard for loco frames anything less will be to flexible I think. You also need to make sure the finished chassis is well cross braced. If you only put spacers in at each end like a brass chassis it will not be strong enough. Depending how visible your frames will be you might need a spacer between each of the axles, at the bottom under axles is a fairly hidden place if there is no better place. Modelling the fire box between the frames is good for strengthening the frames with some double layering and gives you a prototypical cross piece at the front and back of the box. Anywhere the top of the frame is not visible on the engine I would use to make the frames as a box which makes them very strong. Plasticard frames are quite thick so you have to be careful what motor you use especially if you need to put it in the fire box as I will on the j21. I model in em which gives a little extra room in oo this might be a problem. I glue the brass bearings in with super glue. if you need to ream them out to get the axles to fit (i usually do) do it very gently with plenty of lubrication or else you will end up pulling them out. Its not as bad as all this sounds and if it all goes wrong which I am sure it will not you have only wasted some time. What is your prototype by the way, I would be interested to see how you get on. David

Hi Steve, As the tram layout is not mine I haven't got any pictures of it but if I remember to take my camera on Saturday I will take some pictures. In the mean time if you can't wait .there is a picture on the list of layouts for saturday though the web site is running very slowly at present. https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Exhibitions/3-7/The_National_Festival_of_Railway_Modelling/Layouts/ I am now going to make a start on the tender chassis, I'll keep you all updated with my progress. David

Dear All I spent last night doing the coal rails. Apparently I swore a lot, so my wife told me but I am fairly pleased with the result. I stuck the two sides together. Then I soldered the rails together. For some daft reason to begin with I bent over one side to the other and soldered them together but it looked daft as one corner had the rails curving round while the other had a prototypical square corner with them soldered together. So back out with the soldering iron to separate them, the bent side was then cut back to match the other side and new rails soldered on the back. soldering the rails together using bits of brown paper to stop the rail soldering to the one below. Two rails added and waiting cutting to size.. Attached to the rest of the tender. The loco is starting to look like a J21 , I always find this a hard bit of the build, once I can see that the model will work and what it will look like I often loose enthusiasm and models at this stage can be left for a considerable time. So hopefully on Saturday at Peterborough I can get some inspiration to keep going on this build. I am helping Peter on Crickey a tram layout . No North eastern! or even steam.(Say hello, I'm the one who does not know anything about trams). Though I am looking forward to seeing Felton Lane Goods to get my fix of Northeastern.

Dear All, After a week with out modelling I have at least got some done this week. The first problem to over come was how to get enough meat on the front of the tanks so I could then curve them. It then occurred to me that the best way to add material would be to make a hole in the tank floor and add the extra material from underneath. Small holes drilled into the floor, and them joined up to make a bigger hole through which the extra material can be added. , the extra material flush with the floor, and the tank fronts with the required curve. 1mm square section brass has been glued on with super glue to represent the foot plate valence and the outside frames produced earlier have been added. They have reinforcing strips added where they can't be seen to give extra strength. The axle box castings are from Alexander models I think. They were in by spares box. The are not the best castings but the only ons I have with out spending extra money. Super glue was used to stick them on. I cut very thin strips of abs to represent the beading on the front of the tank. I know in reality it is round, but this is how I did it on the cab with which it has to match. In time i will file a slight roundness on. I was thinking of using brass wire in the future to represent the beading. Abs seems to glue very well with super glue though it remains to be seen how it reacts on being spray painted. I have in the past had super glued items stuck onto plasticard come adrift on painting with aerosol paint. The next job was to make a start on the coal rails. they are made from 7mm brass wire. The first job is to bend four bits to similar reducing curves. Super glue was again used to add the rails to the abs representing the backing. Once glued on they were filed to shape. I now have to do it all again for the other side, the difficult bit is making thm exactly the same and remembering that for the other side they need to be a mirror image. The number of times I have found when I have come to fit parts that one side will not fit as I have made two identical parts rather than mirror images.

Dear Manna I have just found your thread and I am impressed with your models. I will watch your sentinel build with interest as I have always fancied building one but had not worked out a way of building the glazing bars and making them strong enough. I had not thought of glueing them to the glazing itself for support. Could I ask how you built the great northern cabs? I can't think how to do the curves on to the roof. looking forward to your next instalment. thanks David

The plastic pipe was 5mm in diameter and came from an evergreen scale models strip styrene pack. Rod and tube assortment 7 pieces (though it might have come from a different pack as there is more than 7 pieces in the packet now.)

Dear N15 sorry to hear about your loss. I think we all dread that happening when we miss handle a model and then feel relieved when we catch it again and it does not go floor wards. A plasticard chassis is never going to be as robust as brass but even some brass models will not take a tumble to the floor. David

Dear Manna I think the plastic card pipe was about 6mm external diameter,but I will check when I get home tonight. David

Not much progress but I have made a start on the tank. It has a inner layer on which the tank top will rest. The tank top has the coal space built into it The flare around the top of the tank was from a plasticard tube cut into quarters length ways. the quarter tubes have been added to the tank top but await trimming to size. Today I was looking at a picture of a model of a J27 when I realised that I had not left enough material in the front of the tanks to allow for the curves in to the coal space. That is going to be fun to sort out, as I can't now get to the back of them to add more material.

I have not done much modelling lately, but I have managed to complete the hand rail around the boiler. These cruelly enlarged shots show how it looks. , I tried to bend the rail in one go. I early managed it but it splayed out ever so slightly. No problem I will cut it in the middle and join it in the hand rail knob, but I managed to trim too much off one side so it did not reach the knob. Five attempts later I had a lot of bent wire and one matching piece to form the other side of the rail. You have to get it exactly right or it ruins the whole look of the engine. Unfortunately due to having to do diy on Saturday I did not manage to give the model a coat of undercoat so we wait good weather next weekend. I have started on the tender. Sticking a copy of the drawing of the frames on to the ABS sheet and cutting round it with a scalpel. The D shaped slots had holes drilled in them which were then enlarged and joined up to remove the unwanted material. A file was used to bring them to the final shape. It is important to make sure both slots are the same Here is a shot of one completed frame.