plasticbasher

Final photo to show where I'm at now. Body resting on chassis correctly - done. Holes drilled for wire handrails and lamp brackets - done (whistle needs drilling again and I forgot to do the three lamp brackets on the front of the footplate) Drill and tap holes to secure body to chassis - pending. Filing off handrails - part complete I need to make up some sandboxes (?) to eventually glue onto the chassis between the driving wheels, sort out the under-boiler skirt and make some new cab steps. Whistle is a standard Triang / Hornby one, the safety valves actually came off an Airfix Royal Scot (I think), but look much better than the Triang ones did) Obvious things to sort out - which may involve money :-( Tender Chimney Buffers

Having added lots of plastic to the loco body, I though it about time I removed some..! I have started shaving the hand rails off and drilling holes for handrail knobs. I hate doing this as I always mess it up (luckily here less so than at other times). I'd appreciate it if anyone can tell me if they have a better way. Photo's below were taken after the actual work was done rather than during (hence you can see drilled holes in the first photo..!!) Step 1. Use a sharpened screwdriver to remove most of the handrail in the immediate vicinity around where a hole needs to be drilled (ie. for a knob). I leave it proud so I can see the remnants of the moulded knob and handrail so I know exactly where to drill. Step 2. Use a sharp point to firmly make a mark exactly at the point I want to drill the hole (I use an old broken compass from when I was at school...rather a long time ago!) . This is where I often go wrong...I have big hands and the tension of trying to be precise means my hands start to tremble (you can imagine the rest!!). Having said that, I'm pretty chuffed that these holes came out okay (except the whistle which is off the centreline...only by a fraction, but it definitely shows. Step 3. I used a 0.7mm drill bit in a pin chuck to drill the hole by hand (I never use anything like a Dremel...way too fast and inaccurate and the friction melts the hole rather than drilling it.

Having got the height of the body and chassis right I also finalised the bits of plasticard added to the body to secure it to the chassis. At the front I cut two small rectangles that fit snugly between the gap in the front of the keeper plate (7.5mm wide and 5mm deep). One was 60 thou again and the other was about 1mm thick (I keep a little box of potentially useful offcuts...I believe it was part of a CooperCraft wagon floor once). These filled the gap perfectly and align the front of the body on the chassis so I can drill and insert a self tapper here. This self tapping screw will secure a front mounted (small Bachmann) tension lock coupling, the chassis and the body all in one go. At the back I added another two rectangles of 60 thou plastic card to help restrict the chassis's side-to-side movement. They were cut 9mm wide and once the glue has set trimmed until the chassis was a snug fit (I probably shaved 0.5 mm off each side). Now the chassis fits securely and 100% centrally. They don't secure the chassis (I plan to use a bolt through the drag beam into the chassis block), but they are snug. Third photo to prove the loco fits level on the chassis (it didn't 20 minutes before I took the photo..!!)

Next update. I spent a bit of time (far too much time actually...) tweaking the front of the chassis and satisfying myself the body fitted the chassis properly and was level (I used a steel rule to measure from the bottom of the footplate to the bottom of the chassis keeper-plate and have a consistent 8.5mm all the way along. The rear axle is sprung so measuring it on the track is not reliable (and I plan to load up the spaces in the body with some extra weight which will affect the "ride height). The main adjustment I made was shaving fractions off the keeper-plate ahead of where the prongs used to be (as that's what the body is resting on) until I was happy The knife in the second photo is pointing to that bit in the photo below. First photo shows the loco against a Mainline Stanier tender (as I remembered I changed the wheels in the Mainline brakevan above and wanted to check height against another item of rolling stock (old Triang buffers temporarily refitted to the 3F body just to be doubly sure). Third photo shows I filled the cast printing off the chassis block at the back to make it sit tight to the cab floot (probably overkill).

Thanks - and definitely post your efforts (I have several split chassis Bachmann loco's that might benefit from the same and I'd personally be interested seeing how you do it). The tender is my current issue (I'm not happy with the Triang option as most 3F's never pulled one of those as far as I can tell - if I had one, I wouldn't mind reworking it to match the loco if it was the "right style"; but it isn't..! See the links to photos in my reply above this one to see what I mean. More progress updates coming below in a few mins :-)

Might end up attempting scratch building...this is probably the No.1 option..! I do have a damaged GBL static model of a Midland Compound (ie. ripped off from a Bachmann Compound); but it looks like a Fowler tender attached to that. But (subject to me checking), the chassis might be a good starting point I guess. Yes - thank you! I found photos of of a couple here https://www.railuk.info/steam/getsteamclass.php?item=3F-B and here https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hitchin_ex-Midland_3F_0-6-0_geograph-2787696-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg...looks like mine will become one of them..! Thanks Pat....glad I'm providing some food for thought!! And thanks for the tip. The chassis block is pretty messy after all the sawing and cutting (and it will need a hole drilled and tapped at the back soon as well). Quite a bit of the paint came away with the dried blobs of Evostick it arrived here covered in - even the wheels had Evostick on them...no wonder it ran badly!!!. So it will get a total stripdown and the block itself will enjoy a dunk in Nitromors followed by a respray when I'm ready. Hopefully that, a replacement motor, new oil and careful reassembly will help (I also have a pair of new axle springs too just in case).

Thanks David. Oh - don't say that..!! I'm going to struggle enough with clearances under the splashers using the existing wheels (yes, they are 19mm...I just checked). Yes - the tender...I'm not sure what to do there. I reckon a Bachmann tender on eBay would be about £30-£40 (admittedly I haven't seen one, but that defeats my self imposed minimal cost approach here) and the Triang tender is just "too wrong" for me. I did find an earlier thread on RMWeb about the Triang 3F which mentioned a suitable Ratio tender...I need to investigate that.

Final update for now: a couple of photo's to show how much lower the loco is than as it came from the factory - it more or less matches the buffer height of a Hornby E2 and a Mainline brake van. Happy with current progress!

Now to the front of the loco (again this is progress to date only) 1. I cut away all the ribs and so on behind the buffer beam (plastic sprue cutters were perfect for this - just be careful you aren't too aggressive and snap the buffer beam as you go) and used my sharpened screwdriver to clean everything up. 2. Then I glued two pieces of roughly 16mm x 5mm 60 thou plasticard onto the floor of the running plate immediately behind the buffer beam, between the "internal buffer shanks". I also filed some more metal (perhaps 1 mm) off the front of the chassis block. This all brings the body to as near as the right height (it's perhaps 0.5 mm too high at the front now, so I'll need to fiddle around to lower it a little). I will then need to add more plasticard small squares until it meets the front of the chassis baseplate (I plan to insert a self tapping screw to hold the front of the body and chassis together). Future photo's will make this clearer...

Now to mount the body to the chassis - this is still work in progress and just shows where I got to thusfar. I worked this out as I went and may have approached things slightly more neatly in hindsight. This post deals with the cab end: 1. Between the two ribs that run vertically on the inside of the drag-beam under the rear of the cab I glued two pieces of 60 thou plasticard (10mm wide and about 5mm high). This pushed the chassis forward into the right place relative to the loco body. 2. On the underside of the cab floor, butted up against the sides, I glued two rectangles of plastic card (the critical dimension is 8mm wide). This keeps the body mounted centrally on the chassis at the rear. 3. The cab floor simply rests on the chassis block. Fortunately the 60 thou cab floor works out well as the cab appears to be at the right height. I plan to drill and tap a hole through the drag-beam into the rear of the chassis block to secure the body to the chassis with a screw. I'll have to be carefully as there is a large hole already partially drilled horizontally into the chassis block by the previous owner of the chassis.

Clearly the red one is not the one I chopped up (I forgot to take photo's and so pulled one from my Hornby Jinty as a demo (but didn't notice what a rubbish photo I took)...

Now onto the loco body. Let's create a cab interior...! I used a backhead from a "current shape" (1980 to date) Hornby Jinty cab interior / window moulding which I happened to have in my spares box (I haven't checked, but they may be available as spares from the usual sources). It comes as a painted clear plastic moulding that is folded up and inserted into the Jinty body to make the entire cab interior. 1. I carefully sawed (not cut because the clear plastic is brittle) the backhead off the moulding. 2. Using a sharpened screwdriver I cut off some of the detail around the inside front of the Triang cab (enough to allow the Jinty backhead to be installed). 3. I filled in the hole in the cab floor with a rectangle of 60 thou (1.5mm) plasticard installed flush with the existing cab floor and allowed that to set hard. 4. At the same time I added two strips of 60 thou plasticard under the backhead to lift it up to about the right height. I trimmed them to match the backhead profile. 5. The next day (when the cab floor was nice and hard) I inserted the Jinty backhead (I wish I'd spent more time doing this as it is not sitting 100% flush with the inside of the cab front, but it doesn't show).

Next steps were: 1. Disassemble the chassis completely, wrap the block in parcel tape to prevent metal filings getting in the places you don't want them and remove the chassis extensions mentioned above from the block: The front one was removed completely. The rear one was sawn off in a line that bisects the screw hole (for the original tension lock coupling). 2. Cut the plastic chassis underframe to match: At the front I completely removed the prongs with horizontal cuts, but not the coupling mount. At the rear I removed everything to do with the rear clip and shortened it slightly to line up with the stub of the chassis block extension I left in place (it measures 22mm from the centerline of the rear axle. I also removed what was left of the rear guard-irons on the chassis underframe. Hopefully the photo's help explain the above (with a chassis as supplied by Hornby to help show the changes).

So, how did this all come about? I have engaged in a little eBay shopping of late: I decided that only having one Hornby LBSCR / Southern E2 was indecent. They have become a bit like Hornby / Triang B12s and Mainline / Bachmann parallel boiler Royal Scots - I feel guilty leaving a broken pile of bits "unrescued". Being tight, over the past couple of months I have bought up a few non-runners and job lots of scrap that included something E2 related as cheaply as possible. The idea being what's saleable in the rest of the job lot be cleaned up and resold to cover costs. Irrepairably damaged or warped bodies will be painting practice...sadly that's the vast majority, so I don't see much cost covering taking place..!! After seeing the healthy combination of fine looking wheels, generic underframe detail and running qualities of the China produced 0-6-0 SSPP chassis as found under the current Railroad 0-6-0s and Thomas the Tank engine (albeit recently even further improved in the past couple of years with a solid rear axle and no traction tyres), I decided I needed to "standardise" on that. I now have four E2s to detail and build up, all for a fairly reasonable outlay (about the same as a Railroad Jinty off a shop shelf). But I hope sale of the original X-03 powered chassis's can recoup some of that outlay. Amongst the terrible disasters I've acquired were: 1. A Triang Jinty (handpainted in GWR colours) for a tenner - from the photo in the listing I could see the current Chinese wheels giving away that this was a suitable chassis. What I received was a Triang Jinty body perched backwards and very high on a mangled Hornby SSPP chassis, all held together using a very Heath Robinson concoction of bent aluminium scraps, big bolts, tons of Evostick contact adhesive and pieces of MDF..! Apologies if the builder reads this, but it looked awful. 2. A Triang 3F loco body was acquired around the same time on a whim. I was going to pair the 3F body to a Triang chassis with some 1980's wheels, clean everything up and pass it on. I think this one was about £4 (no one was silly enough to bid over my opening bid). Painted in thick gloss green and with a copper painted dome, damaged cab roof, no steps and what appears to be a huge rivet pretending to be a chimney. Nevertheless, regardless odd any dimensional inaccuracy (I haven't checked) it looks like a Midland 3F I judged the Triang Jinty body is little more than scrap (cracked in several places and the Evostick has attacked the plastic quite badly). It will donate it's steps to a straight body with no steps that came in a job lot of scrap bodies I got recently. The Hornby (China) 0-6-0 SSPP chassis was initially a disappointment too as it's baseplate was missing all the retaining clips (very common it seems) and had been brutally drilled in several places to accept big (M4 or larger) bolts. After a clean-up, fettling of bent con-rods and removal of tons of Evostick it ran okay-ish. I decided to combine the above late model Hornby 0-6-0 chassis with the Triang 3F body and see how good I can make it (same wheelbase as the original Triang chassis so wheels line up with splashers, but the motor will not be in the cab). If anyone is going to copy me, the use of a Hornby China-made chassis is quite important as I'm lowering the body onto the chassis to make it scale height. Older 1980-1990's type Hornby chassis will also move the motor out of the cab, but use wheels with coarser flanges - that would make life rather more difficult when it comes to lowering the body onto the chassis. Even with it's much finer flanges, I can already see I will have to do some "easing" of clearances underneath the Triang body with this chassis. The outlay in total should be about £20-£25 (including a new motor and postage costs); much less than the beautiful Bachmann model..! I haven't worked out how to get hold of a cheap Deeley tender though (I won't be pairing it with the Fowler-esque tender Triang used to supply). And I may need to buy an aftermarket chimney (but from where?). Everything else will come from the scrap box. Finally on to what has been done. This is all essentially "structural" engineering so far, to mate the Hornby (China) SSPP chassis with the Triang 3F loco-body. 1. Dunk the Triang body in a freezer bag and cover in Mr Muscle oven cleaner spray to strip the paint. Wear decent rubber gloves and do this in a very well ventilated room...that's nasty stuff. It took about 5 hours with a couple of rather messy scrub-ups under running water, but removed the thick green paint and an equally thick layer of red paint, even lifted the Triang printing. Mr Muscle doesn't always shift factory finishes completely (although I haven't yet tried leaving the item to be stripped for more than 10-12 hours). 2. Fettle the chassis as described above - it does really need a new motor though as the existing one runs, but the Evostick glue seems to have got inside it and so it's not "happy" despite my clean-up efforts. Sadly those motors are not serviceable like a Ringfield or X-04 - they either work beautifully or they are about to go to metal recycling...but they can be had for about £4.50 new at the moment. I also think one of the wheel-sets may need re-quartering (to be confirmed once I have fitted a motor that runs nicely). The photo's show: The body after paint removal. The only bits left are a little by the dome, the smokebox door numberplate and where the buffers were; everything else is gone!! Mr Muscle oven cleaner is thoroughly recommended for ovens and paint removal on plastic models! The chassis after clean up, Evostick removal and attempted service. The plastic underframe was binned and a somewhat less damaged one installed in it's place. I forgot to take a photo before I cut off the extensions at the front and rear of the chassis block and what was left of the clips from the replacement (damaged, but not too badly) plastic underframe. The chassis block extensions both had had their screw holes hugely enlarged (off centre too) which is why this chassis was not destined to go under an E2 body. There's a complete one of these chassis in the background that shows what one should look like.

Makes sense to me and a very good idea...might look to copy that myself. Thanks, plasticbasher

Well that piqued my interest..! I've occasionally lapped valve seats too, albeit in the past decade or so, and didn't think the paste was graphite based. So I googled out of curiosity. Graphite powder is not abrasive as the carbon is in sheets (ie. graphite) not crystals (ie. diamond): https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/2673/is-graphite-lubricant-safe-for-metal-parts Valve lapping paste is abrasive - apparently the most common abrasives used are Silicon Carbide, White Aluminum Oxide, Boron Carbide, Garnet or Diamond (per http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/283159.html) - here's a link to the constituents of one brand: http://www.newmantools.com/clover.htm All the valve lapping compound I've ever used is very dark grey; not sure if that means graphite is present in the grease they use as a carrier (haven't been able to find that). Cheers, plasticbasher

​Thank you all very much for the replies. Was hoping I could test the loco without removing the chip (yes it's hardwired, there's no DCC plug and yes there are about 4 other wires that have been taped off). Removing the chip means I have to accept the risk the motor is good...in principle it should be, but until tested I cannot be sure. ​Learnt my lesson...don't buy a DCC-fitted loco if I want to test it before providing the seller with feedback! That...or buy a DCC controller... :-D ​plasticbasher

Hi All, I've just got hold of a DCC fitted loco (Hornby R2206 loco-drive 'Coronation') courtesy of a well known auction site. My Xmas present to myself (ahem...from the children / cat / local foxes or something!!) It was not originally DCC fitted, but appears to be hardwired very professionally / neatly. ​After receiving it this morning, I had to take the loco body off to sort the valve-gear as a piston had partly popped off the slidebars. Testing by applying power without addressing that would have probably resulted in bent metal and the only proper way to relocate it was to release the cylinder block from the chassis and reassemble. I suspected that to be that case after examining the listing photo and so bid accordingly. As far as I'm concerned, that's defensibly "as described" and it only took 10 minutes of my time. A missing body securing screw under the cab wasn't mentioned in the listing but it'd be churlish to get upset because of that - I easily found a suitable replacement. ​When I place the loco on my test track and apply DC power nothing happens. No movement or indication any power is reaching the motor. I can't see the brand of decoder as it's wrapped in tape (which I don't want to remove yet in case there is a problem) and I haven't contacted the seller yet as I am aware some DCC chips don't allow (or can be programmed not to allow) running on DC. To be clear, the loco was listed as DCC fitted; and I plan to revert it to DC. The seller also has top-notch feedback stretching back quite some time, so I'm confident he / she wouldn't have knowingly misrepresented. And I'm good with how to deal with the seller if there is a problem. ​My query is a purely technical one: Will I do (or risk) damage to the chip if I apply 12v DC power direct to the motor? Logic says I won't, but I don't want to fry the chip on a loco that may need returning if the (£25+ to replace) motor is goosed? ​TIA, ​plasticbasher

Here is the grease Bike2Steam mentions: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triflow-Synthetic-Grease-Teflon-3oz/dp/B000C15MUU/ref=pd_sim_200_1/260-8385512-8148725?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=T5QSD4BRT0SJY5NGDQ1M Ouch...that's not cheap..! But I suppose it goes a long way... plasticbasher

Here's a useful page I just found: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/facilities-cleaning-maintenance/greases-oils-lubricants/lubricants/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyM7_lpKb2AIVhrftCh0VSwBVEAMYASAAEgJlXPD_BwE&cm_mmc=UK-PPC-DS3A-_-google-_-1_UK_EN_G_Lubricants_BMM-_-Lubricants%7CVariations-_-%2Blubrication&matchtype=b&gclsrc=aw.ds Also the drone forums have quite a lot of good stuff (some more relevant to model railways, some less so): https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?787168-Using-silicon-grease http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?20051-Best-lubricant-for-multirotor-motors https://www.dronethusiast.com/lynh-phan-tip-drone-motor-lubricant/

Thanks Gents, Noted about LM grease...a warning in the nick of time, given I'm on holiday today and was contemplating doing some maintenance later!! Looks like I'll wait until the New Year and get something more appropriate. Regular model oil "feels" too light for this particular application and I want to find something heavier or a true grease - the Woodland Scenics stuff sounds the way to go). Still chuckling about "muff disease".... plasticbasher

Thanks All....helpful comments. Think I'll experiment on one chassis with something like LM grease (I have a tub in the garage) and report initial findings here, but after Xmas get some Electrolube and go from there. Regarding Khris's question - the big spares place that manufacture (or more technically, commission manufacture of) replacement axles and gears for Bachmann and Mainline loco's is Peters Spares. Bachmann Royal Scot / Jubilee / Patriot ones for example are: www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps30-Bachmann-replacement-axle-set-jubilee-scot-4mt-manor.ir. (Mods....please remove link if I'm breaking any rules by posting this). Make sure you get the ones you need...a J72 is different from a Royal Scot for example and Mainline is different from Bachmann too. At a glance they seem to do ones for all Mainline and many Bachmann split chassis loco's. Also, my advice (as their postage is a flat rate up to about £50) is do a big order periodically rather than lots of small orders. Also buy direct rather than through eBay as the prices are slightly higher on eBay (presumably to cover fees). No affiliation BTW, but I have used them a few times in the past and my feedback is very positive to date. Thanks, plasticbasher

Hi All, A generic question prompted by curiosity rather than urgent need. I have been doing a little servicing of some Mainline and Bachmann split chassis steam-outline loco's this evening. These loco's, more than many others, really suffer from wear once the "mileage" increases. The chassis block and (chrome plated) stub axles both seem to be fine until the moment they reach a point of no return, where they will forevermore wear at pretty aggressive rates. I have several now and the better runners are very definitely the ones that have seen least use. The worst runner (a Bachmann LMS 460 that probably never saw a single drop of lubricant after leaving the factory, but seemingly also has a few 1:1 miles under it's belt) has visible wear (including some scoring) to both the axles and the axle guides in the chassis blocks. As a result the current collection is erratic and the wheels are sloppy enough in the chassis block that they seem to want to bind the valve gear. The motor is still very sweet, sadly the other key elements of the drivetrain are little more than scrap. None of my runners are afflicted by the other major failing of these chassis (the plastic axle spacers becoming loose in the stub axles), but I have replaced a couple of wheelsets where this has been an issue....but that can be fixed as one of the big spares retailers produces replacement plastic axle inserts for a number of these Mainline and Bachmann models. To date, I seem to have escaped the "swollen wheel spokes" issue that I see can also afflict these. It's the chassis blocks and stub axles eroding each other away that basically turns the chassis into nothing more than a source of spares and is the reason for this information request. Basically I'd like to keep my good runners good, and not see further deterioration in the others if possible. I have seen recommendations to use lithium or LM grease (for use on full-size cars) on YouTube for axles. However, on a split chassis loco the lubricant used on the axles needs to be electrically conductive - as far as I know, neither of those are. I did think about copper-grease, but my experience is that stuff dries over time (fine on cars as the copper component is the bit that is critical in preventing stuff seizing; probably less desirable on a delicate model train). Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable grease or heavier oil to use on the chassis block / axle interface? TIA plasticbasher

Thank you Gents, Bob I'll try that and Ian...yes, sorry (I didn't think about that, but of course you're correct!). Cheers, plasticbasher

Hi All, I have a Hornby Castle with the first style of can motor chassis (see Service Sheet HSS 306C). The loco suffered some damage before I got it and I need to replace the driving wheels (which I have sourced). However the valve-gear is secured to the wheels by "pins" (ie. not screws and not hex headed bolts). I am struggling to find an easy, non-damaging way to remove these pins from the driving wheels. They are very securely fitted. Pliers just mash up the heads of the pins and I fear levering them out with a small flathead screwdriver will damage the valve-gear. Has anyone got any good suggestions? Cheers, plasticbasher