alastairq

According to the BBC, Scotland is beginning to face a shortage of fuel of a more serious nature. Apparently there is a disruption in production of Irn Bru, blamed for the most part on the shortage of LGV drivers. Apparently, LGV drivers have been turning up for work, only to discover they are too tall. Scottish consumers are being requested to only purchase enough Irn Bru for their immediate needs, as supplies are diminishing [getting smaller] This will continue for as long as short LGV drivers remain elusive... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-58710019

Overalls seem to be the one aspect of life far too many children are keen to avoid. That, and anything that gets their hands physically dirty, so it seems??

One possibly 'good' outcome from all this fuel business is, McDonalds comes out squeaky clean..... seeing as they run all their lorries on re-cycled chip & burger fat....? Good ol' Maccydees...

WW2 wouldn't have had the outcome it did, if the US [& the UK to a lesser extent] had 'restricted' business operation. A lot of businesses made a decent profit out of meeting demands.... The 'opposition', on the other hand, exercised a strong degree of control over business.....

Consumption has been depressed for the past 18 months, anyway. The pingdemic, fewer miles travelled, reduction in personal commuting, more ecumenical cars, even the tickling of electric cars all conspire to depress fuel consumption overall. Personally I cannot blame the GB government at all. [Except with hindsight]....It wouldn't matter what colour or flavour of government we had, the results would be the same. At least we have a government? Unlike Germany at present, where the 'winning' political party will be hamstrung for lorry-knows how long whilst they try to come to some agreement with the more extreme political parties, in order to form some sort of government? The biggest cause of the current woes is down to one thing! Greed! Greed on the part of consumers. Greed on the part of the various industries. Everybody will be happy as long as no-one upsets the applecart. Well, thanks to the media [or, the use of the media?] an apple cart has been upset. I bet the next upset will be, when the Exchequer realises it is losing a lot of revenue from VED on cars, so will start charging VED for electric cars [they still wear out the roads, just the same as petrol car].... Being financially comfortable [as distinct from, bumping along the bottom from one payday to the next?] brings a certain smugness of attitude. Like It or not, it's unavoidable. Thus, can we afford to take the moral high ground. Thus we can afford to 'buy' an electric car. Thus we can feel good about what we see as 'doing our bit?' Imagine how we'd feel, being compelled to pay VED, for example, all of a sudden? It will happen.

Having enjoyed two coffees reading this thread, I have some observations. Firstly, regarding apparent fuel shortages? What doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that petrol [especially] these days has a very short shelf life. Certainly when compared to petrol sold in, for example, the 1960's. [Which is why old vehicle owners have encountered running problems with their vehicles. It's todays [or rather, last month's] petrol. [Nothing to do with ethanol] So a fuel station that doesn't have an excessive normal turnover will not want to store an excessive amount of petrol. This is compounded by the fact that petrol [and doyzel, Doris!]...differs in ingredients, not just summer to winter, but also spring to autumn. Petrol is like a cabbage...doesnt keep for more than a month or so, let alone though half the year! [The lad who filled his kiddies paddling pool will get his comeuppance, because today's petrol, with its content of ethanol [so his kiddies can breathe easier?]....will readily absorb all the surrounding water vapour....he'll plop that in his car, and spend the next 5000 miles spluttering around!] Then there's the 'driver shortage'. Wages being what they are/were, there are many jobs where the 'basic ' wage is depressed enough that employees like to/need to work, overtime. Overtime is cheaper on the wages bill than employing a lot more, basically-paid staff. So companies employing drivers don't want to completely stock up with drivers, where no-one gets a chance of overtime, when the company can normally operate with fewer employees, some of whom are happy to work the overtime. It's the ''just-in-time' concept, stretched over to staffing. Surely? I saw it [and the effects when there's a cock-up] when employed as bus driver, and when employed by the civil service [MoD] as a specialist instructor[driving, etc]... On the buses, one day the company acquired someone with managerial qualifications{??? but whose background was the retail industry...Marks & Sparks, to be precise]......He visited depots and wondered why [especially first thing of a morning] there was a driver, on full pay, sitting around apparently ''doing nowt''........the Spare Driver! So he got the bright-spark idea of doing away with the spare driver [look how much money I can save the company, Mr Chairperson? Looks good on the CV for when I move on in two years time....as one does when in love with the career concept? The Army was full of it!] The idea worked well enough for a week or two...until an early doors driver phoned in sick. Bus stood on forecourt [fitters had moved it].....ready to go, passengers waitng to board, no driver! Off duty driver telephoned, told to 'come in', replied, 's@d off, not enough notice....company rules, hoist by, etc] Happening once was bad enough. When it started happening every single day, the new manager had some awkward questions to answer!! Spare driver post re-instated toot sweet. There has always been a shortage of LGV [and PCV] drivers nationwide. Certainly in my working lifetime. [1967 up to 5 years ago next month] Such a shortage probably makes the various companies concerned, more profitable? The issue has been raised time & again over the decades. Then there's the admirable 'working time directive?' Which puts the kybosh on LGV drivers actually being allowed to work overtime?? There's a shortage of [skilled] workers in the social care industry, too. Knowing the wage structure in that industry, I am not surprised.. Seems as a society we all want ''summat for nowt?''

Yup, I was taking the wee-wee BAck in the 1970's, parliament [Ted 'eaff', I think?] debated combining the HGV with the PSV licences. This was given the heave ho as the two tests, whilst technically similar, have some considerable differences regarding elfin saftee.. But, mainly, until the mid 1980's whilst the DSA [or rather ministry of transport?] set the syllabus and conducted the HGV testing...the PSV tests [& licence issue] were set & conducted by the Area Traffic Commissioners. [There were also issues regarding bus drivers not having criminal records, for example...being of good character, etc...] . Although both tests were frequently conducted by the 'same' Examiners....each working for a different 'boss' depending. Hence London Transport conducted their own driver testing. [As well as Met. Police, etc...which was a similar test, just a smaller vehicle!] It is also why London Transport could incorporate a skid pan assessment as well. Nowt worse than Kensington High Street on a wet day, in an RT. Thus, bus drivers [and conductors, they were licenced as well, by the Traffic Commissioners]...had those red badges..and why, once one moved out of the area of issue, one had to change the badge..and, often , undergo another driving test, for the new Area Traffic Commissioners. All changed when we went completely EU & off our rockers.

Lorry driver shortages? What is often ignored in these arguments re-shortages concerns the figures. For LGV drivers, the 'short' figures also include those operators who need drivers who are prepared to work for peanuts...and who, in normal circumstances, struggle to find or retain drivers. Then there are the 'agencies'.....? How many drivers are they 'really' short? Especially when they struggle to fill slots, simply because drivers on their books are perhaps sick, or on holiday, or even, just don't fancy doing that particular job? Do these [currently unfilled] vacancies get put down to a 'shortage' of drivers? At any given point in time, how many unfilled driver places would in fact be best suited to 'part-time' drivers, perhaps doing one or two days' work a week? WAge levels in many workplaces are set, in my view, by the 'lowest common denominator.' As an example form my own work experience....as a bus driver many decades ago, the outfit I worked for [EYMS] worked NAtional Express runs. There was a huge disconnect in the amounts drivers doing National Express were paid...This affected the companies ability to operate the National Express contracts. How can companies paying a decent wage to their drivers, compete with the two -bus back yard firms who also do National Express, but employ part t-ime drivers? Many of these were [to quote a not exaggerated example] the plumbers who were doing a National Express run on a weekend, simply for the pocket money. They were almost doing it for fun! Simply because they had a CAt D licence. Also, can someone tell me where this Class 1 HGV licence thing is? I held a Cat C+E.... a category which allowed me to drive any LGV over 7.5 tonnes, with a trailer. In my 20 years of being involved with Cat C [+E too] training and operation, I had never come across any bit of paper or plastic which mentions Class 1 licences. [Not since the mid 1970's anyway, when the HGV books went out]... I can [or would if I reclaimed my vocational categories] drive & manoeuver any artic, or drawbar trailer.....and make a fair fist of the most difficult trailer to manoeuver, the drawbar with a turntable. Artics are [in my view] vrey easy to manoeuver. Those drivers who drive the little Milk Marque tanks [two axle vehicles] with their little turntable drawbar tank [2 axle, usually] trailers are the doggz beees when it comes to driver skills.....The can put those wee trailers anywhere. Get an artic driver to do likewise, and they'll be tied in knots quick-time!

Don't forget, the Automatic Milking System? {Quite why I would want to be made aware of, let along rush out & order, an automatic milking system, is really beyond me......}

The question of ''using the Army [and RAF]'' to supplement civilian drivers for fuel deliveries is fraught with it's own issues. Firstly, the soldiers/air personnel have been, and are being, trained to far higher standards thanks to the civilian operators dictating the course criteria. Significant in that the military will be using the civilian operators' vehicles. [Rather than turning up in an Oshkosh and off-road capable tanker] The have all undergone ADR courses [and passed] provided by the MoD. As such, they will all be quit competent drivers [especially the lasses]... I had some personal contact with the courses when they were first set up. The physical driving side was created by civilian instructors who had long, personal experience of tanker driving. [Not a couple of years, but decades] This involved re-creating all the nasty devious types of ancient oil refinery loading spots, all the nasty devious delivery spots, that could be thought of. [Nothing is straight forwards for a lorry or bus driver in this country..it has too much in the way of legacy infrastructure!!!] The tanker training itself was conducted with civilian equivalents [on lease, I believe, probably]....artic vehicle [albeit the tanks filled with water, not fuel] But first the 'students' had to undergo artic training and assessment ... {My involvement here was, training instructors to fill places should the Op be activated] Having already passed the appropriate Hazmat course....the students then pass the main course.....BUT, unless they are utilized almost immediately , they go away to 'do other things', such is the life of military personnel. Thus, although they are 'qualified' they will likely be timed-out for that qualification, and need refresher training. Which won't be an immediate action..it takes time to get personnel away frote 'jobs' they are doing now, send them back to [DCLPA, aka DST] to undergo an appropriately worked-up refresher course....This all takes time. Plus, who will do the jobs that are vacated by the personnel who are now on a refresher course to drive civilian tankers? A lot of shuffling about of personnel..and instructors, of course. Of course, there has been for decades a shortage of qualified instructors too....something the MoD wanted to close its eyes to, but were awakened after I retired....[again, like LGV drivers, an aging skilled workforce...} After the turn of the century [this one, not the last one].....the DSA [now DVSA] had an issue with LGV instructors nationwide. Unlike car driver instructors {ADI] there was no official LGV instructor register...anyone could do it, effectively [and, still can]... So the DSA set up a Register....whereupon mst of the Cat C, C+E & D+E instructors employed by the MoD [civil servants] qualified for, and were placed on the DSA LGV Instructor register.....numbers soared from a couple of hundred, nationwide, to well over a thousand, just from my own Establishment alone. Come renewal time, the DSA wanted £125 from each of us, teh MoD refused to subsidies, and the Registration wasn't in itself a compulsory requirement for us to do our various instructional jobs....so, almost overnight, the DSA was faced with a drip of Registered Instructors of nearly a half...we all got snottograms from DSA [in a fit of pique, obviously] about not renewing....{ I should add, we all held relevant military qualifications for our relevant work...which paralleled, and sometimes exceeded, civilian equivalents] The current political suggestion of utilising Military Driving Examiners to test civilians is a nice idea...but will involve both civilian & military personnel, who are definitely not currently just sitting around doing nothing for a living. [Military examiners are 'governed' by the DSA as-was] So, whilst MoD examiners are out testing civilians, who is testing the military personnel also being trained? Mind, the military have never hit their recruitment targets [hence when cuts in personnel have been demanded, very few if any, recently have been chucked out...since the existing numbers of personnel were actually below the new lower number demanded..... So like every other aspect of our lives, the reality numbers never ever mathc the top line numbers. Whether it's lorry drivers, teachers, medical personnel, or whatever.

Their Facebook page says ''temporarily closed.''

A bit of a bargain,methinks? https://www.trainworld.com/model-train-specials/o-scale/williams-23103-ge-44-ton-switcher-southern-1957-williams-23103.html

I find it disturbing that, when I order stuff, I usually get a delivery date of about a week to 10 days hence. The disturbing bit is, it usually arrives tomorrow instead! Now, what I cannot get my head around is, customers often have a more expensive shipping option of 'next day', etc..... So how come one pays more for 'next day', and f one opts for the week or so delivery, it still carrives next day? Who is making, or losing, money on that one? I also still cannot get my head around why it takes a UK car parts supplier nearly a fortnight to send me a package? Yet when I order a car part from the USA on the Tuesday, it's on my doorstep just after Friday lunchtime???? [Especially having told me it wouldn't likely arrive until the next week?]

Well, I got called out this afternoon on a Dad's taxi run.....actually son fancied a coffee at a nearby [10+ miles away] Maccydees [best value coffee]. So I went into town to fetch him. Passing two petrol stations [Esso & Jet]...both with longish queues out onto the roads...Friday afternoon flappers? Or weekend cumfitz? Anyway, having coffee'd and sat in a quiet spot for a chatter, then home to put tea on, and take his lordship back home..I decided to pop twenty pensionquids' worth of petrol in. Seeing as I've been 'booked' for a Uni run next week as well [cheaper than getting a bus pass, sharing taxi chores with his Mum, my Ex]]...ANyway, still a bit of queueing, but turns out the queues are caused by a preponderance of Diesel Dorises! The Esso spot had run out of diesel for cars, with only the LGV pump still running [and Adbloo....whatever that is?} I just wanted a dose of E10, so had zero problems getting fuel. Garageman said they'd had a run on diesel [media again] but had plenty of petrol. Plus, the tanker was due to arrive around 10 PM! So the answer is, use petrol! If I had my Daihatsu 4trak on the road, I might have been tempted to pop a gallon or two of petrol in it to tide me over...seeing as it'll run on anything...ulike today's technology! Shortage of drivers? What shortage of drivers!

If one has to become a lemming wannabe, I suggest sipping on a can of Red Bull first?

The autonomous vehicle situation is a bit like the problem railways faced at the end of the goods train era. Goods still needed distributing or leading in, before & after the train journey. [Or, autonomous truck journey?] Unfortunately in this country, the delivery system is faced with a truly ancient infrastructure, which it has to deal with....In terms of the points of delivery. Few if any of which are laid out to be of benefit to AI. Outside my home, on what may be considered a 'country lane', I can observe several rather large, [44 tonne] artics wending their way past the parked vans, roadworks, etc...on their way to & from the many farms up the road....Bulk this & bulk that.... Not quite the M25, but these vehicles are a daily fact of agricultural life....

Except that this has been the situation in the industry for many years now..... My jibe was at us, actually, 'wanting' more stuff, in the first place.Not just 'wanting', but, demanding, more stuff. Thus 'supply' will always be playing catch-up.

Aaaah, the sunny South[east?]....up here, I popped 20 pension quids worth of E10 in one of my old bangers [in the south it would be a ''classic car''].....Esso spot, no queues, just a continuous flow of customers, and the fuel costs £1.34 a litre...which is somewhat less than that in the photos. This at a 'main road' service station.... I guess we don't get MSN up here? CAn't tear it up to wipe bums when the toilet roll shortage hits? Mind, we have our 'own' refineries just an hour's drive away[Humber region]....so i guess much will depend on how close one is to refineries, and how many folk are runnign around in cars, locally? OR....is is a secret ply to convince everybody to go electric??????

Usually spouted by those who actually don't have a proper understanding of the skills they are supposed to display. Often cannot get their heads around the difference between 'My way' and the 'Correct way'... I usually found 'those that can do', actually cannot, in reality, so need refreshing..ie re-teaching! It's often referred to a skills fade.....An initial lack of proper understanding leads eventually to so-called 'bad habits'..... Also, teaching is a whole new world in itself.....right across the board, as I found out 20 years ago. I too, had the above idea.....what a shock I got! There is always a huge disconnect between what [work] practitioners think people should know.....and what those people actually should know.

No. The minimum age to undergo a PCV test is 21. Same for the CAt C LGV test. The exceptions being, the Armed Forces {GB], and those fortunate enough to obtain a recognised apprenticeship in the haulage industry. They can take a CAt C LGV test at age 18. [C+E can be taken & driven, but a far as I recall, cannot drive without a qualified driver's mate, with a trailer.} I broke from the system of education education education when I passed my 2nd Mates exams when at sea, employed by BP tankers...and decided soditt, and left. Then got a job doing something I fancied at the time, being a London Transport bus driver [1972, still old school]....I passed my test [PSV, there was a difference]....2 months after my 21st birthday. You won't find many young bus drivers today simply because no youngsters want to be bothered! In general. Bus & lorry driving were traditionally [past 40 years or so] seen as being jobs one took when there was nothing else to be had. BAck in the 70's and 80's, I remember students coming onto the buses for summertime jobs [East Yorkshire Motor Services, United, etc], as conductors....and one or two went on to pass their tests and drive. With rare exceptions, they all enjoyed their time on the buses....it wasn't quite what the general public thought it was, as a job. I left the buses [along with many other 'old hands'] when I noticed how we were being considered less & less as 'drivers', and more like shop assistants!

What is completely ignored here , with lorry drivers [ignoring also the fact that there has been a huge shortfall of LGV licence holder willing to actually work in the haulage industry, for at least 2 decades, if not more??] anyway?], is that wonderful EU thing called the European{?} Working Time Directive! Thus, GB lorry drivers are subject to not just the tachograph rules, but also the working time directive rules! IN an industry such as road haulage, what is forgotten is that, whilst it's nice that lorry drivers can have a whole weekend off now & again, like the rest of us overpaid, over-bloated workers.....but that the wheels still need to be turning, to keep up with the supplies for us over-bloated other-workers. Which means, far more[drivers] are actually needed just to do what at one time, a smaller workforce achieved.[ Back in the days before universal power steering] The exodus of EU workers from the driving industry especially, was starting to be seen long before the B referendum! As I said, when the living standard of countries like Poland, Bulgaria, etc etc started to catch up with our own, then what incentive was there for EU citizens to remain working in an alien country?? Especially when we all wanted cheap prices, so the driving industry couldn't pay the levels of wages a lorry driver was really worth? Brexit happening was merely coincidental to the exodus. It was already happening! Like I said,we wanted our cake, and to eat it as well...and now we are reaping the whirlwind, so to speak. The biggest issue I see is the lack of a genuine GB work ethic, since the 1960's.

To add, just some 'evidential' notes to emphasise my thoughts above? Concerning one aspect of work, the current lack of lorry drivers? From the RHA {not a union as we understand it, either].... Plus, the RHA quotes the average age of lorry drivers is, 55! More importantly, to emphasizes how far as a society we have drifted, less than 1% of lorry drivers are under the age of 25!! The last bit says it all! I say, lower the school leaving age. Change the country's work ethic! After all, all the raising of the school leaving age did, was to massage past unemployment statistics. Another example? The GB's Armed Forces? Year on year for the past several decades, the Armed Forces have repeatedly failed to recruit personnel in sufficient numbers to meet their stated needs. Why? Youngsters leaving school didn't want to work in the Armed Forces. Or the nursing profession. Or become lorry drivers. Or become bus drivers. Or go into the Care sector! The youngsters 'fault?' Or the parents' fault? Such work being beneath our dignity? Or were there easier, more lucrative jobs to be had? As a result, the Armed Forces were compelled to recruit from the myriad of former commonwealth countries...or, not even former commonwealth countries? The NHS compelled to recruit from Indonesia, etc for nursing staff? Anybody recall the very real recruitment problems London Transport had, trying to get enough bus drivers? Back in the 1970's??? Look at the staffing issues in the current Care sector??? Where do our working carers come from?? Certainly not from the typical GB family, who wouldn't get out of bed for those sorts of wages???

According to the RHA, the average age of a UK lorry driver is 55!!! Less than 1% of lorry drivers are under the age of 25! The last bit actually says it all, about the labour issues we as an affluent nation[as well as others] face. Our younger generations no longer deem it appropriate to be aiming to work in such menial trades. Or maybe, it's the parent of our younger generations who are doing the deeming??

Well, having read avidly through the preceding rants & ''woe-is-me's,'' my first thoughts were, we are where we are, most likely because, we all wanted our cakes, and to eat them as well! But I look at the current mini-crises, and cannot help wondering whether we have all endeavoured to benefit from a modern, more acceptable , version of a slavocracy? We are bombarded with demands for apologies and denials over the GB's [I prefer GB to UK....which somehow attempts to be inclusive when it really isn't!], roles in the slave trades of the past few hundred years [I still do not see any signs of apologies from the Moroccan arabs, or the Turks, for their part in raiding Cornwall & carrying off hundreds, if not thousands, of Cornish people into slavery?}, Yet we, as so-called 'modern' citizens of the world {I include Europe in this as well].....have the lifestyles we have, and enjoy, because all the fetching & carrying we expect to be done [the picking of vegetables, the care of the elderly, lorry drivers, bus drivers, and all the nasty tasks none of us really want to know, let alone be compelled to work in......] has been conducted [over the past 80 years at least] by people from less affluent countries, who come here, one way or another, to do the work we ourselves deem to be 'beneath us'....for wages that few of us would even consider getting out of bed for.....! Now, when those countries finally get somewhere near to to our own, precious, standard of living, and the migrant workers return home, as there is no advantage to working thousands of miles away .....we all start bleating about government policy, politics, brexit, and every other aspect of life which hasn't gone the way we, as individuals, would have wished it to....! HAving our cake, & eating it?? We have all enjoyed that to some degree or other..... Where has the 'working class' disappeared to? Yup, I reckon we are seeing the end of the modern ''slavocracy,'' and are all bemoaning the fact! Perhaps if we all weren't so in lurve with the idea of sending our kids to UNi after the mandatory gap year......and went back to a school leaving age of 14, we might not have such a shortage of...for example, lorry drivers? Or, nurses? Maybe we as a country/society would not have to rely on the less-well-off from the far side of the world, to come here to do the work we ourselves deem to be, beneath us?? Yup, one step up from a slavocracy, in reality!