Steve507
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Posts posted by Steve507
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On 23/07/2022 at 22:27, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Hi Steve,
Sorry to hear you got covid and trust you're on the mend. I certainly don't envy you getting it twice. I got it last September and it knocked hell out of me despite being vaccinated. I'm pretty sure I caught it off a customer of mine who coughed all over me just before the symptoms hit, and being diabetic I was in a right mess. No help from the doctors except to take paracetemol, suck Jakemans boiled sweets and hope for the best. I even got a phone call from the NHS threatening me with a £ 600 fine if I left the house! Happy days.
On the subject of the windows I never did hear back from the company who makes them despite assurances I would. A shame, but I can't say I'm surprised all things considered. I'll get myself some Humbrol Clearfix and give it a whirl. The stuff I used was a bit unforgiving.
My printer is an Anycubic Photon resin printer. I don't think they make that model any more but the new ones are pretty similar and probably better too. I don't think you need to pay silly money for one, and a near identical competitor of the Anycubic is available for £ 179. The advert on ebay is :
ELEGOO MARS 2 PRO UV Photocuring LCD Resin 3D Printer 6 inch LCD Screen UK
I'm not an expert on these things but mine is easy to use and a doddle to pick up.
The layout wires I use are from cm3models on ebay. To pinch the info from their advert:
Dropper Wire is multi-strand 16/0.2 rated at 3A @ 70C with a 1.6mm outside diameter
Small Track Bus wire is multi-strand 24/0.2 rated at 4.5A @ 70C with a 2.3mm outside diameter
Large Track Bus is multi-strand 32/0.2 rated at 6A @ 70C / 10A @ 25C with a 2.6mm outside diameter
Personally I'd go from the small track bus wire which works just fine for a reasonable layout size. You may be able to get similar from your local hardware store as prices vary a lot depending on length.
In regards to the 507, disaster struck. I had everything set up and ready to roll and I must have squashed a wire or something because I now have no connection between the carriages, a headlight is out, one chip has lost its own address (!) and one carriage is completely shorting out. Add to that the fact that the motor carriage is not running right with two motors causing horrible jerking and looks terrible. Major surgery was put on hold due demoralisation and being hotter than hades in the loft.
I eventually decided I was going to use one motor which I should have done right from the off. Yesterday I was able to fix the carriage floor after removing one of the motors and I will be redesigning the wiring to make it less obtrusive. Fault finding will come later which is something I am NOT looking forward to as I tested everything every step of the way. Frustration doesn't begin to describe it, but then I have no-one else to blame.
Fingers crossed I get it all sorted soon.
Take care and get well soon,
Mark
I've ordered the bus wire kit as you recommended. 👍
3D printer; what puts me off purchasing one is i just cant see me using it beyond completing the 507. All the detail you've printed for the 507, exterior and interior are they contained on a file? (if that's how it works) would it be possible for you to e mail me that file and i could contact 3dprintcorner to see if they could print them out for me as i've used their services before for printing the 3rd rail beams/shoes. (that's if your happy to) the number i need it might cost a bit in time and material as i have four 507's, 3 car set, having so many might mean its worth me buying the 3D printer after all.. i dunno...
windows; I was hoping you'd hear back from them with a solution it would've saved me some time cutting them all out. its a shame they never replied.
507 disaster; wired connections between the carriages, that's why i gave up on running wires between them, i had a problem similar to yourself and then when finally solved it, another problem the micro sockets would come loose after x-amount of circuits - when it comes to soldering and wiring it fills me with dread to the point i put it off till the last. - before i started this project i'd never soldered or used a multimeter. the latter still confuses me when testing the LEDs. Just take your time and im sure you'll sort it. best of luck.
progress; Yesterday i primed (bottom pic) the other 3 sets units ready for painting the front cab, rear, roof and doors, need to sand the print lines on the cab ends first - im gonna use the same vinyl livery, tiger stripe, but on the off chance probably copyright issues but i've contacted Merseyrail to see if they can send me their graphic for the latest 2014 "communications" livery. As a mate in work mentioned his youngest lad had a cardboard box with part of the communications livery on it. - my thinking was to try and scan it, resize modify and get it printed on vinyl.
image from the internet.
The tape is used to keep the floors attached, as you know the floors need sanding to fit flush - and each one ever so slightly different.
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On 07/07/2022 at 13:23, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Hi Steve,
Having a bit of headache with hiding the internal wiring. I ordered some U-Channel for which I waited three weeks before cancelling it and ordering from Hattons. Wish I'd gone there first, but when it came it was a bit too small so ended up making my own after all using the 3D printer.
I've made boxes for the undersides which have lids and tiny self-tappers to hide the hideous mass of wiring. All things considered I seriously need to upgrade my wiring game to make things neater and more comprehensive in the future.
The topic of windows has been interesting too. Not sure what yourself others have found when you did yours, but I used my mothers scan-n-cut machine to make the acetate windows. Problem was they ended up covered in glue thanks to my numb old digits and look awful. I've since been in touch with the makers of South Eastern Finecast who make the flush glazing for pre-existing carriages. I figure they must make one as near as dammit so I've been in touch with them to see if they can help. I make the size of the window apertures to be 10.5mm high x 18mm wide.
Fingers crossed. As soon as I get a response I'll update my findings on here.
Hi Mark, i've made no progress whatsoever on the model since my last post, - somehow i avoided getting covid for the 2 or so years its been about and then i got it twice in 3 weeks which the second bout knocked me sideways. but im back to feeling okay now, so i'll be having a go at the lights using the fibre optic i bought. im off work next week for our annual shutdown so hope to make progress then.
On the windows, i used Evergreen 0.25mm clear polystyrene sheet. i cut widows out by hand using scissors, using the photoetch window as the template and i simply glued the clear plastic to the frame using Humbrol clearfix. I then just glued this on top of the train livery vinyl, it sits proud, but the clear plastic sits flush with the back of the etch frame, but the window frame sits proud anyway and to my eye the extra 0.25mm thickness of the plastic doesn't make much of a difference. - but the glue i used was humbrol clearfix. which if it gets on the window i just rub off with a dry cotton bud when dry.
On 3D printer, what sort of printer would i need to print out seats, cab detail like you have etc....
- what price would i be looking at for printer and resin?
on a different subject, if anyone can help what's the best wire to use as a bus wire on a layout, and dropper wires, preferably wire i can buy from the likes of B&Q or similar store.
I don't have room for a permanent layout at the moment but could build a modular layout which i could put up and take down which would measure about 16 to 24 foot max, in a circuit, if that makes a difference when it comes to recommending wire.
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6 hours ago, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Hi Steve,
I'm in the process of printing storage boxes for the undersides of the carriages where the wiring will go. I think you're right in that it would make more sense to run it under the roof though. I'd already put the LED lighting strips there which was why I hadn't done it, plus the fact that it would interfere with the dividers I'd made. Definitely something to take into account when I make the next one. Perhaps a false ceiling? There's not much room at the ends of the carriages for hiding wiring but it could be done. Unfortunately I have a lot of wiring to stash out of sight.
The reason I have wiring running from each carriage despite having separate decoders is for track power and the lighting for the door lights which is operated from the centre carriage. Perhaps if I'd bought better quality decoders with more functions this would have been unnecessary, however that said I still wanted good power pick up which I have with 8 bogies picking up! Connecting the three carriages is a bit of pain of course but achievable.
Regarding the friction on the 153's bogies, I have the same issue. The fix, which works great for me, is to simple squeeze in either end of the wheel keeper plate with your fingers. It will then 'pop out' slightly thus freeing the wheels nicely. Good old Hornby!
I'm not sure about the Bachmann motor. It looks a bit big to me, but in fairness it's difficult to determine size from a photo. Mostly what I look for is something that is compact, quiet, smooth and can run at lower speeds as opposed to going from a zero to mach 3 in a split second. Some of the smaller motors I've tried are horrible. For example I've recently worked on converting an old Trix BR98.4.5 to DCC loco which looks fantastic. Unfortunately the motor is so loud it make it uncomfortable to run. Personally I like the 153 motor but will with hold judgement until I'm got it all running.
On a side note I've recently bought a Lokprogrammer to help me remap the sound chip. I'll have to upload a video, but right now I have to work out why every time I turn the headlight on the toilet flushes.
Cheers,
Mark
(bold) that gave me a good laugh, 😂
The class 153 motor in fairness i've had no problems with it, well once i was shown on here how to wire it up and i got the weight correct - its run great for the last 4 or five months. like you every bogie as pick ups. which must add friction and ever since i came across DCC concepts pick ups, the ones that look like coiled springs. that fit on the axels, which wouldn't fit on the Hornby ones but would the Bachmann. so that got me thinking.
The Bachmann motor, - it looks more beefier, and bogies better designed. i'll try squeezing the keeper plate on the Hornby ones.
I've got the fibre optic cable now, so gonna try that tomorrow, question = I've got Nano LEDs for the marker lights. these are a combined white/Red set up. the LED face has white one side and Red the other. but both need to share the same marker light hole.
with the fibre optic, if i fit the 2mm fibre optic into the marker light hole so this becomes the lens, will i have to use two 1mm fibre optic pieces. ie: one glued to the white LED face, and one to the Red LED face and then both of these pieces glued to the 2mm fibre optic? will the light work like this? will the light travel down one 1mm piece of fibre optic and then into the 2mm? (polish the ends with wet-dry emery to assist)
Nano LEDs ive used.
https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/led-nanolight-wresistors-6x-2-colour-protowhitered/
the set up would be
White LED face -----1mm Fibre----\
-----2mm fibre----- Marker light.
Red LED face -----1mm Fibre-----/
old pictures to show the marker lights need to be white and red.
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12 hours ago, 313201 said:
I would guess that about 4 washers per bogie will be needed depending on how many of these bogies you use because the washers should raise the chassis up just enough to allow it to clear the bogie mouldings, I would leave the washers loose as this will allow them to be reused if you decided that the bogies were not right for your unit.
I have just thought of another potential idea, this uses plasticard of 40 or 80 thou thickness or a combination of theses which is cut into strips slightly narrower than the airbags so that the strips will not be noticeable behind the airbags.
These strips of plasticard would then be glued over where the screw goes on the bogie and would need drilling out to the size of the screw hole on the bogie, these plasticard pieces would provide support to the unit so that the coaches won't wobble in any way when running but they do need to be just a tad higher than the airbags again so they don't foul the chassis.
Hopefully this picture should help explain what I am trying to say, however, I should also point out this bogie is a much earlier version of a class 150 bogie I think for an old Dapol version of the class 150 as this bogie has the plastic stretcher almost at the top of the height of the wheels.
Now I know the pullman units never had class 150 type bogies but I ran short of actual pullman bogies and my thinking behind my imaginary 7 coach pullman unit was that the bogie was being tested as a potential upgrade to the ride quality.
Apologies for the digression but the picture should also show the chassis sitting just above the airbag without fouling it.
Hope this helps
thanks for explaining mate, very useful information ive got a better understanding now if i attempt it on the next one.
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4 hours ago, 313201 said:
For my personal choice and purely because I have used this way a good number of times recently, I would go with a screw that is just the right size to go through the bogie but will at the same time give plenty of grip when screwed into the chassis.
Becausr the xlass 150 bogie has the airbag mouldings, washers will be needed as these will keep the chassis up just enough to prevent the bogies and chassis fouling each other.
You could use bolts as an alternative, however, the best way I found with bolts was by using a dab of superglue around the bolt head to secure it to the bogie but washers are still needed to go between the chassis and the bogies, the disadvantage with bolts is that if the bogie got damaged and needed replacing, its a bit of a beep getting the bolt out so out of the 2, screws will be the best way.
Bachmann sell screws. - but at £1 each.
https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/824/class-150-screw-power-bogie-32-930/e3293-264-08
So fitting of the bogie, it'd get a screw just a tad smaller/narrower than the hole in the bogie. (to let it swivel) this screw would then pass through a washer, a washer also with a centre hole slightly larger than the screw. the washer thickness just enough to stop the bogie catching on the airbags. - the screw would then be screwed solid to the chassis. - stupid question now. would the washer be glued to the bogie? or left loose on the screw?
while browsing the Bachmann spares page. - would this coupling mechanism not help with wires running between carriages. lighting? or Motor?
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9 hours ago, 313201 said:
Hi Steve507
The Bachmann motor bogie should be better I would imagine as the big weight block over and around the motor should give more traction ability and the good thing is that they like the Hornby bogies can be run in pairs so if you found that 1 bogie didn't give enough traction, another motor bogie could be installed in the other driving coach.
the Bachmann motor and housing looks substantial in comparison to the Hornby motor. - the kit maker recommends the Hornby motor, but do wonder would the Bachmann motor housing fit. even though the Hornby motor performs well, i cant help but feel the Bachmann would improve things further.
How would be best to fit the Bachmann bogie? with a screw and bolt? as the kit simply as a hole through the floor. The Hornby bogie simply clicks in. but the Bachmann lacks this.
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On 10/06/2022 at 13:45, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Here's a couple more pics of the 3d printed interior pieces including the seating. The door light in the photo with the carriage is 3d printed in clear, painted up in BR blue. I polished the end and attached an orange led which shines through when the doors are 'opened'. Although mine is the earlier pre-facelift version, your model would be a similar job I would imagine. The drivers section is a bit of a work in progress. I found the divider to the cab doesn't really work as it bends too easily. I removed this and glued it in separately. I've left gaps for the lights, however there is enough room under the cab floor for the wires to pass easily.
My next job is working out how to hide all the wiring as it looks awful right now. I did have a plan from the beginning, but it didn't quite work out entirely as I wanted it to. I can see why people go for PCB's! Perhaps next time I'll glue everything to the ceiling? For now I'll crack on and see if I can get it all looking halfway decent.
Cheers,
Mark
The ability to 3d print the interior and cab detail makes all the difference, I think all that you've done is brilliant and the tips you've given will come in useful.
I agree with the wires being a pain, the running between the carriages was the worse part for me, hence i abandoned it and went with multiple decoders. - as for the lighting wires/decoder the approach i was going to take was to hide them in the ceiling, in a cavity that exists between what would be the carriage department roof and the roof of the actual train. wires would run along the roof cavity dropping down behind the drivers cab and under the drivers cab floor to the lights. the decoder would be at the back of the carriage in the space that would be created between what would be the passenger corridor door and the corridor connection door -
(bear in mind im yet to implement it, as working on my interior detail as come to a standstill, and im now (unashamedly) watching you trailblazing the way forward.
I ordered the fibre optics, but still waiting for them to be delivered.
On another matter, The bogies I've used are the Hornby class 153. (pic / link below)
they seem to offer more friction, than say my old 1980's Lima class 156. whose wheels spin more freely. it doesn't seem to be affecting the train running, but if you spin them by hand they stop within 5 or so seconds whereas the old lima ones spin for what seems 20+ seconds.
(Hornby bogie - actual link i purchased from) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265028454323
Bachmann spare bogie for class 150 (this looks more like my old Lima Bogie and could imagine the wheels spinning more freely than the Hornby. Do you or anyone else think these Bachmann ones could be used instead?
Also the drive motor. I'm using Hornby class 153
petes spares
https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9882-class-153-dmu-drive-unit-complete.ir
Bachmann spares again. would it be possible to use this motor, which im guessing would be a upgrade on the Hornby one?
housing motor
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On 02/06/2022 at 22:00, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Hi Steve,
For the LED headlights what I did was measure the diameter of the hole and buy 1 metre lengths from ebay. It's pretty cheap and readily available. If I can make a suggestion : buy a few different diameters, say one size up and one down from what you measure the hole at. This will make sure you get the best fit. For the price it's well worth it as you use so little and the postage is virtually the price of the fibre.
First of all I make sure the fibre fits snug, but not too much. I snip a length off about 1.5cm and polish the end up with some wet and dry to get it as smooth as poss. You don't need to go nuts with it, just tidy will do. Then you need to get your leds. For these I used : Pre-soldered Micro Litz Wired Leads SMD 0402 LED. You can find these on ebay if different colours. I used orange, red, warm white. For the main beam I used a larger white led but not sure what the code is. It's 1mm though.
I next held the fibre piece in a bit of blue tac. I dipped the LED in superglue and held it on the end of the fibre whilst I sprayed it with some superglue accelerator. I got mine from Screwfix and it's cheap as chips, goes a long way and is good stuff too. Nasty on your loco though so keep checking you don't have any on your fingers. Disaster awaits if that happens.
Once dried, I paint the assembled fibre with some simple black paint to make sure I don't get light bleed. When this is dry, slide it into the appropriate headlight hole and when flush with the end, dab a drop of superglue onto the inside to seal it in place. Perhaps a bit more black paint to ensure no lights sneaks out and there you have it. Personally I would have used tower LED's if these had fit, but on the pre-facelift models the headlights are too small and the towers I got are way too big.
I did the same with the door lights after making these up on the printer. If I get a chance I'll see about making some more up. I've got some other bits to sort out first though.
In regards to the seats, my 3 x seaters are 14.5mm wide (So about 5, per seat), 11.5mm tall and 12mm back to back.
The two motor thing was a cock up on my behalf. I thought I'd only bought 4 dummy bogies when in fact I had 5. One had somehow got misplaced and I couldn't find any info on the original order to remind me what I'd bought. Since these are like hens teeth to get now I was in a bit of a corner so went with the two motor idea. I was also hoping it would be strong enough to go up the helix (when it gets made), but you know how these things go.
Like you I went with the multiple decoder route. I went with the cheapo Lais ones (One of which was faulty right out the box!). I have one in each carriage and a Loksound in the middle for the sound and motors. I still have to use the dinky wire connectors between the carriages to carry the power from the door lights (I ran out of available functions) and the feed from the track, giving me six bogies picking up. Very nice, but they are really flimsy connectors. I bought some nicer ones from Roads and rails which are pretty robust. I'll give them a whirl soon.
The major problems I've encountered are that I've got acres of wires which I just cannot hide very well. The other issue is that I can't get the blasted windows right. I've cut them out on a scan n cut machine (Courtesy of a family member) but I keep getting glue all over the damnable things. The word I would use is 'infuriating' to put it mildly so there must be an easier way to do it. Anyway, hope yours is going well. Like I said, I'll have a print run done soon and see if I can get some extras run up. I'll keep you posted on that front.
PS/ not sure about that seating, it looks a bit big but it's hard to tell from a photo. I'll have to get some more pics of mine so you can compare. I'm not saying mines right by the way!
Cheers,
Mark
thanks for the info and help,
The station seats i mentioned, their dimensions are, compared to yours.
Station seats/(Yours)
Height: 12.68mm (11.5mm)
Width: 65.86mm / 7.31 per seat. yours (5mm per seat)
Depth: 14.92mm (12mm)Im starting to think i'm getting to caught up on interior detail, something that wont really be that visible. i'd like it to be the best i can do, but. the train is complete except for interior carriage detail and driver cab.
I've another kit to do, and want to cross over the things ive learnt from the first one, and implement the hints and tips offered throughout this thread and try and improve.
- on the fibre optic, are these the right type, the end lit ones? if so i'll order 1mm, 1.5mm 2mm, & 3mm.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265591545856?hash=item3dd67d6000:g:P38AAMXQya1Q9CCH
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On 06/05/2022 at 11:44, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
Hi Steve,
Here's some pics of the underframe and seating.
For info :
I managed to get a PDF of the original plans for the PEP unit interior seating layout and found it was easier to design and fit the seats individually. They may actually be a whisker too small due to the internal dimension of the model, however I found HO passengers fit really well and they look the part. I also discovered my painting skill are terrible, so please bear with me!
I made separate pieces with doors for the ends of the carriages that have seats either side. These are attached to the upper sections (Not the floors). I made separate sections for the dividers that sit either side of the main doors. Not sure if these are clear in the pics as I'll need to get some updated ones. I'm not 100% happy with the cab, but it's okay. I had to design it in such a way as to have room for the headlight wiring. Like you, mine looks better from outside!
I spray painted the models in acrylics although I think I'll use enamel next time as the acrylic seems to wear off with little more than a breath of air. This caused me more frustration than I care to remember. I did buy a set of vinyls from Electrarail but went down the masochist route of painting it instead. It looks a lot less shiny and I like the result, but would I do it again? Hmm...
I used transfers from Fox and Railtec, including the lining. You have to have the patience of a saint to use the lining, but it works well. Personally I think I'd use a draftsmans pen next time and paint the things.
I printed everything in 3d resin using my Anycubic photon.
For the door lights, I made these in clear resin with the intention of lighting them from behind. I did a 'proof of concept' piece and it works pretty well. Bit of a fart to put it all together, but I think it will look good when I've finished.
The underframe details were all designed by myself from watching videos and studying photos until my eyeballs dried out. I did the best I could and I think they work well.
I discovered the holes for the bogies at the cab ends are too far back on the resin floor as supplied so I repositioned them, otherwise the steps are in the wrong place.
I made separate parts for the windscreen wipers, 3rd rail beams, the Tightlock connector detail (For under the actual couplings for which I used underset Kadees), and cab steps.
If you have a 3d printer give me a shout.
Cheers,
Mark
The undercarriage detail is brilliant, unfortunately i don't have a 3d printer. wouldn't even know where to start with one.
I haven't sourced any additional undercarriage detail. just been using the ones supplied with the Kit. - On interior detail i've came to a standstill, - On seating i was thinking of buying this seating ([pic below) i know its station seating, but possibly cutting it into pairs and using them as interior seats. but they could be oversized for the interior? what's the dimensions of the pair of seats you've 3d Printed?
On 25/05/2022 at 13:57, Wear Valley Wanderer said:Hi Steve,
You were asking about lights a little while ago. I've used fibre optic in mine with smd leds superglued to the ends which seem to work really well. I had to carefully widen the holes in the headlights to get the fibre to fit, which it does nicely. I've had a prob with light bleed from the back but hopefully this will be sorted with some black paint. Here's a video of my lights working on the testing track. I had thought the lights were all warm white for the destination boards but one cool white one sneaked in! I don't think it will be too noticeable as it's all glued in now anyway. If you want any pics of the interior, please let me know.
Cheers,
Mark
Once again looks brilliant. What's this method of using fibre optic? Do you just cut a length of fibre optic and glue one end to the LED on the 'face' of the LED, and the other end of the fibre optic becomes the headlight lens- what type of fibre optic do you use and where do you source it from? i wouldn't mind having ago of this method. i've just glued my LED's straight into the headlight holes. its worked but i'd think your method is better.
I was making headlight lenses by using humbrol clear. and then pushing the LED up against the lens before gluing, Ive used tower LEDs for the main headlight and micro LEDS for the other lights.
Also i noticed in one of your pictures the middle carriage that contains the motor, if i've seen correctly you seem to have two motors installed in the one carriage. what's the benefit of this just better traction/speed? and does one decoder run both motors?
I've been running my train for a few months now without problem. ( i dont have a layout so set up a oval of track to make sure everything is still working) . oh, i did change something, i don't know if i mentioned this, i had wires running between the motor carriage (middle Carriage) and one of the end units to control the lights. but the micro sockets i used just kept coming loose, so i've ditched them and now have a decoder in each carriage. TCSf4 function only decoder in both end units and Zen mini controlling the Motor in the middle carriage. its done away with the micro sockets, but its an expensive way of doing things 3 decoders in one train but it does give piece of mind.
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1 hour ago, 313201 said:
In respect of the motor being setup in the middle coach, it could be due to tests carried out by the makers of the kit which possibly found that hsving the motor in the middle results in roughly even weight either side of the motor instead of at 1 end so its having to pull or push 2 coaches.
yeah makes sense that, and i never really thought of it that way. the one i have up and running runs well with the motor in the middle, the part that's letting me down is wiring from the middle coach to the end unit the mini sockets come loose.
I was thinking of using three decoders per set to get around having wires going from one coach to another. but it becomes very costly having three, function only for the lights in each end unit with their own pick ups. and decoder for the motor.
1 hour ago, 313201 said:I know my unit is not related to thr subject of the thread, however, it does explain the practicality of fitting the motor in the middle coach. The other way would have been to use black beetle motor bogies ( if available in the correct wheelbase for a 507/508. These motor bogies do not intrude into the interior of the coaches as they are a complete bogies all in 1 and fully underfloor of the coaches. This would allow a full interior to be fitted.
Do you reckon i'd need one or two motors per three car set? (i've already purchased three Hornby class 153 motors) but would ditch and switch if its worth it. just looked at the black beetles, haven't a clue what ones id need. 🤔
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On 16/03/2022 at 21:50, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
I've designed a load of underframe detail for the 507's & 508's, with 3rd rail beams and inside details (Cabs, seats and so on)
Hi Mark, can you share any pictures of the underframe and inside cabs, seats you've designed. are these scratch built or 3D printed, / Resin?
I had a go of scratching built an interior but didn't look great. it would sort of pass looking from the outside but im looking for an alternative as I've purchased three more units. which i've sanded, primed and are ready for the vinyl. so anything which makes it easier.
my attempt, with a bit of spare plasticard, and i've stopped at this point in regards to interior. looking for an alternative.
Question for anyone out there: these 507/508 come as a three car set, with the middle carriage designed to take the motor, so the middle carriage runs as push, pull.
I was wondering why this is, is it because its a better configuration to Run?
and would it make a difference if the motor (Hornby class 153 motor) was instead mounted in one of the end units, instead of push pull, it would be either pushing two carriages or pulling two carriages depending on direction. this configuration would help with the decoders, not having to run wires from middle carriage to one of the end units for head/marker lights.
The unit i've done with the motor mounted in the middle carriage, is fitted with a zen mini decoder, with the wires running to one end unit for the lights. but these are connected by mini sockets, between carriages but these work themselves loose, and im not having a good time with them - the Unit at the opposite end is self-contained with its own pick ups and fitted with a TCS FL4 function only decoder.
Any help / advice appreciated
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On 20/02/2022 at 20:49, Marc d said:
Hi Steve, I haven’t painted the roofs yet. I’ve got humbrol executive dark grey for the roofs and used humbrol warning yellow for the fronts. I got another two pairs of shoe beams from them this week. No not going to bother with lights, just filled the light holes with humbrol clearfix and I’ve got tamiya clear red I’ll paint onto the clearfix and the headlights I’ll just paint the back of the clearfix with silver. Done the same on my blue 508 and looks ok
The resin roof colour looks good to me, hence i thought you'd painted them. the headlights did look good on your 508 build.
im following this build with interest, looking forward to see how you affix your 3rd rail beams.
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3 hours ago, 313201 said:
I must admit the bi-coloured led's are something I have never seen or heard of before, I didn't even know they existed until I saw these pictures.
Great work there, looking forward to seeing the end result.
Hi mate, same here, found them by chance when browsing DCC concepts website, I had trouble soldering them and the wire is so thin, with the wire being so thin i didn't know how to strip it. to make matters worse my wire stripper would actually cut the wire instead of stripping it, i was getting frustrated, then by accident i found the heat from the soldering iron either melted or burnt away the wire coating, exposing the wire, - but then found the exposed wire the solder wouldn't adhere, so i had to place the wire on a sanding sponge and with another piece of sanding sponge lightly sand the exposed wire, add a bit of flux and the solder would work.
I then pressed ahead with soldering everything only to realise i wired them all up wrong. - somehow i labelled the wires wrong, I left it for a day or two and last night i redone it all. Its easy once you've learnt from the mistakes. and i seem to be making mistakes every step of the way.
but i sort of get there in the end.
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I re-wired the Bi-coloured LEDs. so two marker lights are DCC concepts Nano white/Red. am going to have to send for the nano white light for the upper marker light.
move onto creating some sort of interior, and sort out the light bleed. gonna paint the 2mm tower LEDs (headlights) black except for the tip. and make a basic cab. and put a driver in.
also my 3rd rail beams arrived from 3dprintcorner.
a few pictures.
3rd rail beams.
day/night/marker/tail lights.
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On 14/02/2022 at 11:14, Wear Valley Wanderer said:
I know this is an old topic, but does anyone know where I can get pics of the underframe detail on a 507 or 508?
I'm currently building a OO model and have bags of bits but no idea where it goes!
Cheers,
Mark
im currently building class 507, i visited Hall road train station to see the underframe detail, but it seems like no two trains have the exact same layout, some of the components are but others, are missing or different all together. in the end i said to myself the next 507 that arrives whatever the layout is im copying that.
A video on Youtube, half hour at Brunswick might help you, just pause the video, the suns from the right direction to show the underframe components. From about 2mins.
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On 13/02/2022 at 22:18, Marc d said:
Bit of an update, painted the cab ends this evening. Tomorrow I might have a look at the vinyls and then paint the roof’s. After that it will be glazing and window frames
looking great, what paint was used for the roof and yellow fronts?
Are you going to be installing lights? I've started adding them on my build.
I ordered some of the 3rd rail beams you recommended from 3dprinting corner should arrive in the post next week.
look forward to more updates on your build
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its been a month, thought i'd do a little update.
started on installing the decoder, which was straight forward, wired up the lights and remapped the buttons. but made a mistake on wiring up the bi-coloured white/red LEDs and just haven't got around to re-wiring them.
made my own decals as well, the black around the lights, M logo, and unit number, used the very basic Microsoft paint. - and decal paper was Mr decal paper (clear) inkjet £7 for 5 sheets off amazon. printed on a standard inkjet printer. then left for the ink to dry for 30mins before giving it three coats of gloss to seal the ink into the decal paper. liquitex high gloss varnish.
wires a bit of a mess but temporary to make sure everything runs. noticed a drop in top speed under DCC control, than under DC. even with decoder CV altered.
used micro sockets to connect wires from dummy unit to motor unit ( middle carriage ) once again picture of temporary set up. windows coming loose due to repeated handling.
small pieces of plastic to attach the LED's
headlight lens made from Humbrol clear fix.
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38 minutes ago, Fenman said:
Me too.I thought it would definitely happen after some 313 units were transferred to Southern. I’d also imagined Rail Blue GN versions working splendidly alongside Hornby’s then-new HST. Or run-down Silverlink units on what are now the Overground lines.
Still, now your brilliant build is nearly finished, maybe it’s one of the Big Announcements on Monday…
Paul
I've been waiting 20 odd years for a manufacturer to release the units, But Fingers and toes crossed for Mondays announcement, - if it was to be announced how long does it normally take from announcement to being available in the shops?
by the way who's making the announcement on Monday Bachmann or Hornby?
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On 04/01/2022 at 14:36, DCCconcepts said:
Hi Steve,
Hopefully, we've answered your lighting query directly, but for the benefit of others, this is how we would recommend wiring two decoders with directional markers/reds and switchable day/night headlights:
One decoder is fitted per cab/outer car.
One cab/decoder is wired as follows:
White wire to markers,
Yellow wire to reds
Green wire to day headlight
Purple wire to night headlight.
Not forgetting a series resistor and common positive (blue) to all LEDs
The other decoder is wired in the same way in the other cab but swap over the white/yellow wires to the markers/reds.
Give both decoders the same address and the markers/reds will automatically reverse with direction on the F0 key.
F1 and F2 keys will operate the green/purple wires but they can be made directional altering CV51/52
Default for CV51/52 is 32 so that they work in both directions, but by setting CV51 and 52 to 0 in one car and 16 in the other, they will only work in one direction - 0 one way, 16 the other - when F1 or F2 are operated)
i.e the day or night headlight will only illuminate when the relevant direction is selected with the markers/reds.
Best Regards,
The DCCconcepts Team
Yes i received a direct e mail reply from Mick, whose been helpful throughout and i'd be grateful if you can pass on my thanks to him.
Moving onto the kit build itself. an update.
I started the process of adding the lights, and how best to mount them. but before final install im gonna have to paint the inside of the cabs to help prevent light bleed.
The LED's themselves, I used my multimeter to determine which wire was which, the tower LED's was straight forward. i bit less so with the Nano Bi White/Red. having three wires all the same length. - I worked my way through the pack of six, and on the very last one it blew. the red light shone, small pop, smoke and it was no more. - dunno what i did wrong. luckily i only need four.
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8 hours ago, jools1959 said:
I found this thread by accident and I’m really impressed by the kit, vinyls and the modelling considering your a relative newbie. The only thing I would suggest is fitting/using close couplings to close the gap between the cars.
Apart from that, awesome effort, well done
I've planned to get the carriages closer, Ive got Kadee #17, short couplings, at the moment their clipped into the normal bogie socket. but the kits cast-resin floor as what looks like moulded sockets so, im going to cut the socket off the bogie line it up with the resin socket and glue it to the underframe and the Kadee coupling should with a little modification to the socket click into it. bringing the carriages closer. so the gap will be just the length of the two coupling heads. But i'm open to any ideas to get them even closer.
I've done a trial on 3rd radius bends, and large left/right points to make sure it worked before cutting the bogie.
i fitted a small screw, just to hold the kadee coupling. it ran for over an hour without problems.
plan as above modify so the kadee fits.
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I don't have a layout, so its a test track on the floor for now. but a clip of the train running.
I know you asked a while ago if i'd upload a video of it running.
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carrying on from post above.
above supports added so i can screw the floor to body.
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2 hours ago, adb968008 said:
Thanks,
this is giving me quite a lot to think about.
thinking aloud but wondering if a clear vinyl could be used, before applying the livery vinyl?
are the windows cut out, clear, or did you need to cut out the windows on the Electra rail ones ?
i’m thinking i’d probably use a couple of old Bachmann 158 or Hornby 156 as a start point for the bogies, electrics, maybe for a mount for the bogies also and cut the frame, might also give seat interiors and cab too. Sell off the bodies/box
im no expert, probably you could use a clear vinyl or another possibility add spray primer, build up two or three layers and then sand it down with Tamyia sanding sponges. 1500 or 3000 grit. that would give a nice smooth finish. before applying the vinyl. (something i did, but if i was to do it again i'd add another two primer layers and sand it smooth so you cant see any 3d print lines. and then apply the vinyl)
the Electrail vinyl is cut out, so as you peel it the window sections are left behind.
picture of the many windows i cut from the evergreen clear plastic sheet. pile of windows bottom left.
photo etch windows painted.
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12 hours ago, JDW said:
The Merseyrail set looks fantastic, especially for someone who has never built anything like that before! I'm wondering if you did another whether it might be worth painting around the doors before applying the vinyls, then you could cut the vinyls to sit flat and bot have to try and touch in any unpainted edges. I'd be tempted to remove the rainstrips too, and either leave it without or add replacements from plastic strip on top of the vinyls, for a neater finish. But on the whole, it certainly looks the part, nice to see a rarely-modelled unit in an even more rarely-modelled livery.
If i could start again i'd do what you've suggested, i'd paint the door frames. The doors, would sit better if cut out. I've been over cautious doing just that because one wrong move and i ruin the vinyl i'd be knackered.
I also showed a mate in work the train and was telling him about cutting the clear plastic into windows. - he's got a type of cutter that looks like a desktop printer, but it cuts plastic, his wife uses it for creating some sort of craft, he said it would cut the clear plastic sheet - so the windows would fit perfect. so i'd do that next time - What I've done is cut the plastic glazing to be flush with the etch window frame and glued the glazing to the back of the frame then that's glued onto the vinyl. so sits proud - next time i'd fit the glazing within the units cut out window frame. then apply the vinyl followed by the etch frame on top.
i'm just surprised the likes of Bachmann haven't in all these years brought to market the class 507's 508's 313's. the amount of liveries for Merseyrail alone gives plenty of options. now that the 507's/508's are being replaced by the 777's, maybe a manufacturer will produce the unit. but a fella (another customer) i was talking in hattons said if they where to announced a class 507/508 the release would still be at least 5 years away.
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but i sort of get there in the end.
Class 507/508 Kit. (Merseyrail)
in Modelling Questions, Help and Tips
Posted · Edited by Steve507
Hi Mark,
Yeah its probably for the best going down the multiple decoder route, it makes it so much simpler, even though costly. but i spread the cost over a number of months so takes the sting out of it, just over £200 in decoders. 3 per train set x 4 sets = 12 decoders. (Zimo X2 ) (DCC concepts X2) (TCS X8)
I've only got a single motor with pickups on the motor bogie and second bogie and I've had no problems with power issues, the decoder in the motor carriage is DCC concepts Zen Mini. in the dummy carriages they have pickups on all wheels and use TCS FL4 function only decoders.
Ive e mailed the company who designed the 2014 'communications' livery, fingers crossed they can assist, if they do im thinking of contacting Adam at Electra rail to print them on vinyl.
edit to add, got a reply from the company. they assigned the IP and Copyright of the designs to Merseyrail a few years ago.
So advised to contact Merseyrail.