BassettLoko

It's all looking very nice, Rich. (Thanks for the link) Have you arranged for the beam on the pumping engine to 'nod', or is it permanently fixed? Bertie.

Sorry Mike, just read #151, and realised you have already mentioned that the base is wrong. Doh! Bertie.

Hmm, yes, I do share your frustrations, Colin! Especially as the Hornby mistakes were largely avoidable. But I suppose at the very bottom line, they did so nearly get it right, and who of us could scratch-build a 2-BIL with that level of detail and quality of finish? Certainly not I! If someone were to photoshop a genuine railway background to Bazza's evocative photo of his 2-BIL, (#791, on Colin's original 'Hornby 2-BIL thread') then I think a good many could be fooled into thinking it was *real. That said, when viewed from some other angles, the suppressed wedge shape of the cab is more obvious and distracting - but certainly not in that view! *EDIT: With the addition of either a suitable headcode number, or an opal glass panel and a paraffin tail lamp!!! Returning to the vents issue, Roger Keen's close-up photo of a 12" to the foot Pullman ventilator, suggests to me that it is sitting on quite a substantial 'plinth' base. This may be a problem for use on other Southern stock. It is difficult to see if Roger has replicated this plinth in his mouldings, as his small-scale advertisement photo shows 20 vents on sprues, inside a cellophane packet! Has anyone actually seen these vents? All the best, Bertie.

Hi Colin, I'm afraid I have a confession to make - for many years, I have kept the Mopok white metal vents loose in a spare parts box. But then today, I found several packets of unopened 'Four Most' LMS torpedo ventilators and GWR shell vents. The LMS vents would appear to be identical to the Mopok S.R. vents(!) and I would say that in all probability they came out from the same workshop! (In this instance, a.b.s. models.) For years I have been perfectly happy with the torpedo vents fitted to all my Southern carriages - even to the point of preferring their appearance to the ones used on the latest Hornby stock! I now have to admit, that after examining the ventilator detail on the 4-SUB at Durnsford Road, (thanks Simon) I'm afraid the cowls on the Mopok/Four Most/a.b.s. versions are actually too narrow. I would be happy to send you a couple of samples for evaluation, but I fear you might be disappointed? I must agree with Andy though, that the 'Keen Systems' resin Pullman ventilators do look remarkably close to those fitted on the 4-SUB. The vents on the Hornby Maunsell stock appear to me to be too small, and in any case, and i.m.o., they sit too low on the roof! In Haresnape's book on Southern Liveries, there is an excellent broadside photograph of a Maunsell corridor composite coach, as refurbished for the 'Bournemouth Limited' in 1938. If you line up a thin sheet of paper across the tops of the two lavatory roof tanks, it intersects the ventilators only very slightly above the centre line of the 'horn points'. The top of the cowl is considerably higher. Repeating the same exercise on a Hornby coach, the entire height of the ventilator barely exceeds the height of the water tank. By rule of thumb, I should say that they look to be 10-15% undersize. EDIT: Undersize in height and breadth, as viewed from the side, whereas the width over the cowl and 'horns', as viewed from above, seems to be about right! I am intrigued by the very suggestion that Hornby should be contemplating producing further Southern emu's! Perhaps I shall stall scratch-building the planned sets of 4-COR units, and just live in hope.............(!) Very best wishes Bertie.

Re: roof vents. Further to this topic, my Kirk 2-BIL sets are fitted with 'Mopok' S.R. ventilators. They appear to be very close to the original pattern when viewed from all angles - i.e., side, end, and overhead. Not only that, but the white metal centrifugal castings were well defined, very clean, (with minimal flash) and all the vents on each sprue were of regular size and shape. I don't know if they are still available? I'm so sorry, but I'm a complete nincompoop - I can't 'do' photo's! Re: S.R. re-varnishing. At least one - if not both - of the 2 BIL units 2069 and 2100, were still in pristine Southern (malachite) livery at the time of the Ford collision in 1951. (Personal observation) This was some three and a half years after nationalisation. Contrary to popular belief by so many members of the 'weathering brigade' today, the well-maintained gloss finish of main line Southern carriages almost always provided a high degree of reflection when observed from an oblique angle. Carriages were also regularly cleaned, at least up until the late 50's. Re: change of hue - malachite. I distinctly remember observing a significant shift in the green hue between two adjacent BIL units, prior to boarding the train in Guildford station. It was a bright, sunny day, circa 1958, which no doubt accentuated the difference. I wish I could now remember whether it was the lighter shade or the darker shade which had been the subject of the recent repaint, though I strongly suspect the former! Re: BIL wedge front,(1) and hi again Colin! Even the drawing reproduced earlier, would appear to show the bend demarcation at a wider distance apart! At first glance, the two vertical lines below window level indicate the panel joints at the bending point. This just goes to prove how easy it is to fall into a trap, even when using a blueprint! The two lower vertical lines on Nick's drawing actually mark the position of some narrow beading, which may well be a panel joint, but it doesn't indicate the bend point! In fact, the width of the body centre panel lines up exactly with the dome roof centre panel, as indicated by the two short vertical lines above the headcode panel in the drawing. Re: BIL wedge front (2) I calculated that between the 40's and the 60's, I had travelled over 67,000 miles in 2-BIL's! So I knew instinctively, just by looking, that the Hornby BIL cab front was incorrect. But it was nice to see this confirmed in the drawing! And Ian, (Kirk) if you should happen to look in again, you did get the angle right, even, if the centre panel was a tad too wide!! For that reason, the Kirk kit still has a much more convincing 'look' to me. In Alan William's book "Southern Electric Album" (published by Ian Allan, 1977) the double page front endpaper illustrates unit 2032, under very favourable lighting for detail, and the bend points of the cab front are clearly revealed! Best wishes Bertie.

Hi Ian, Our posts crossed in the post, so to speak! Yes, it must be amusing to hear us debating on the various merits of your kits after so long! However, they do stand up well against current rtr, as the photo's from Colin show to such good effect. It was also most interesting to hear your side of the kit manufacturing history! I have built 3 sets of original Kirk 2-BIL's, and with carefully added detail, they do make very convincing models. I also have a few parts to scratch build one unit from the first ten 2-BIL series. Despite retirement, this project, along with a 4-LAV, 6-PUL, 4-CORx2, and a pair of 2-NOLS have all so far been still born! Are you still active in any rail-related capacity these days? P.S. What a great shame that your LMS period II non-corridors never saw the light of day... I am gutted! Colin, if you do eventually replace the roof vents on your Kirk 2-BIL, and you can withdraw the ones fitted in the roof without damage, they look to be perfectly suitable for re-use on a 2-NOL, or Ex-LSWR 'nutcracker' 3-SUB (or post-war re-formed 4-SUB), should you ever decide to build one!! All the best, bertie.

Hi Colin, I did mention this to Colin Ashby several years ago, and at his request, I sent him photo's and diagrams of my corrected model. (Btw, I might add that this was by snail mail! I am all agog at the superb photos posted on here, but wouldn't have a clue how to contemplate even starting such a task - old dogs and new tricks....!) I don't think Colin ever did anything about it, and in all honesty, even if he had the will to do it, the cost involved most probably wouldn't have made it worthwhile. In any case, it is a relatively simple matter to correct at the pre-assembly stage, but I should imagine nigh on impossible to retro-correct, once the build has been completed! Out of interest, as has been mentioned earlier, unit 2116 had a steel roof. I'm not sure from memory about the conduit arrangements, but the steel roof certainly lacked the traditional longitudinal rain-strips, and instead had individual arc-shaped rain-strips above each door. I seem to recall that they were almost identical to the rain-strips fitted to the metal dome above the driver's door on wood/canvass roofs. All the best, bertie.

Hi to everyone. Earlier on, Bazza asked what the major deficiencies of the Kirk 2-BIL kit were/are. One rather obscure fault, is the demarcation of the cab 'vee' angles, if the kit is built as supplied. The two moulded grooves on the inside of the Kirk cab front, which facilitate forming up a 'vee' wedge from the flat injection moulding, are much too wide apart. At a whisker under 9mm., this positions the bend angle much nearer to the cab windows. On the prototype, the crease of the 'vee' angle is immediately to either side of the headcode panel. On my models, I corrected the mouldings by glueing plastic rod into the pre-formed grooves, and then cut new bending slots 7mm apart. Of course, the cab rain gutter needs to be similarly corrected, and in reality, this is also much deeper in section than the representation moulded on the Kirk roof. I was therefore quite surprised to see Colin's side-by-side Hornby/Kirk photograph in #39, where his Kirk model still exhibited the more pronounced 'wedge' shape out of the two. Has this received a similar mod., Colin? The Hornby 'wedge' looks distinctly suppressed by comparison, especially when viewed from that camera angle, and for my money, the Kirk model still looks more authentic. What say anyone else? Bertie.

Further to the Hattons email issue, I have received confirmation that the Hornby R3161A 2-BIL units placed on pre-order, are now expected to be made available from 19th. August, 2013. This is excellent news, as it would appear that either the earlier email concerning Hornby's production cancellation applies to some other model/variant, or (considerably less likely) the management at Margate may have had second thoughts. Either way, a further supply of Southern 2-BIL's wearing 'Maunsell green' now seems to be a certainty. Bertie.

Re -Hattons, For what it's worth, I keep checking my 'Inbox', and as yet, I still haven't received an email from them giving notice of any order cancellation. However, my pre-order is for the R3161A units, so with any luck, Oldddudders might be correct. Unless of course, someone out there knows different .........(!)

Thanks Steve and QP, that's a major disappointment, as I had more on order, too.

Sitting on fully chaired, P4 bullhead track, your model really does look every inch a 2-BIL, and no mistake. Very nice photos, too, Bazza, and it certainly proves how very close Hornby came to manufacturing the perfect replica. Nit-picking, I do suspect the Hornby roof ventilator spacing may be slightly wrong - either that, or I've positioned them incorrectly on my kit-built sets! (Ian Kirk) From memory, the vents were roughly equally spaced along the roof, with those above the first class compartments being slightly wider apart. On the model, the 1st class ventilators do appear to be correct, but the 3rd class vents are grouped in pairs above the corresponding compartments. This I believe to be wrong. Only the 2-NOL's had that arrangement, again from memory. I wonder how many 'Southern' modellers today, actually realise that quite apart from being different externally, the first 10 'prototype' 2-BIL's were also very different inside as well? Firstly, all the internal woodwork was stained in 'Dark Jacobean Oak', which was almost black. Along the length of the corridor partition, the dark wood was relieved with cream painted panels, both above and below the partition compartment windows, as well as in between the individual compartments. A single cream panel sufficed between 3rd class compartments, with twin cream panels between each 1st class compartment. The third class upholstery was alternately striped with thin bands of scarlet and black. I confess I cannot now remember what was in first class. Btw, what make are the 4-COR sets seen in one of your earlier photos? Or are they scratch built? I know this forum is for 2 BIL's, but a photo of one of your 4-COR models would be very pleasing to see.