thegreenhowards

Here, here. Everyone does locos, but a prototypical formation is a rare thing to behold. There are few layouts around with consistent accurate rendition of complete trains. LSGC, Grantham, PN and LB are four standout layouts in this respect, and that what sets them apart in my book.

I agree about the opportunity wasted. If they’d waited a few more years we’d probably have a much better coach....but at a price!

I agree about the Kirk’s Mick, MJT underframe every time with Bachmann or Hornby bogies unless heavy duty are required in which case it’s MJT again. I find the roofs vary - some seem to fit OK. One fantastic thing about Gresley coaches is their diversity with so many different diagrams. This makes them difficult to model, but an enjoyable challenge. The great advantage of Kirks is the range of different diagrams they do (did) and the ability to cut and shut them to make even more. We’ll never have that range RTR even if someone does produce a ‘perfect’ Gresley.

Gilbert, I’m a little confused by your ‘Hornby’ all door BSK as I don’t remember one of these ever being in their range. They make a BCK of course, but is this some metal sides on a donor coach? With regards to the Hornby vs Kirk debate, I’m in two minds. I accept that the tumblehome is a key feature if these coaches and it’s poor rendition on the Hornby’s is a serious fault. However (almost?) everything else about the Hornby is better than the Kirk’s - underframe detail, flush glazing, door handles, roof detail, bogies (if you can keep the step boards on!), end detail, interior..... For me the real problem is when Hornbys are mixed with other Gresley coaches as this shows up the tumblehome problem and also shows up things like the lack of flush glazing on the Kirk’s. An all Kirk rake or an all Hornby rake (although it’s difficult to form a prototypical rake with their selection of diagrams) both look fine to me. I find Kirk sides on Hornby donors work well if you file down the end to give the correct tumblehome, but of course, etched sides on a kit built coach (or a Hornby donor) give the best of both worlds. Just my views and I know I will stir up some anti Hornby venom! Andy

Thanks Mikkel, No, it wasn’t easy. I put a strip of plasticard along the bottom of the sides to hold it all together and to provide a lip for the floor to rest on. This helped, but not all the Kirk bits were the same thickness, so I had to break open a few joints and pack before rejoining. It’s still not perfect, but I’m hoping it will look good enough from normal viewing distances. Andy

First post to my new Workbench thread. I intend to post occasional updates on my latest projects. Current main project is building a Gresley ex GNR 65'6" Kitchen Car (diagram NE58) as converted from the 1906 Sheffield Stock Restaurant Car. I have tackled this by some heavy duty bashing of Kirk kits. I mainly used 1st and 3rd class sleeping cars, but needed a lot of joins - particularly on the Kitchen side as shown below. Despite looking a mess, it actually joined quite well as you can see in the next picture. I had to do quite a bit of sanding, filling and beading replacement, but it's now starting to look like the coach. I couldn't find windows with the correct ventilator pattern in my box of Kirk sides, so had to choose some of the right size, and add the ventilators using plastic strip. The GNR style door toplights were drilled and filed out. Next I need to tackle the underframe - some interesting gas cylinders there! Will post an update once the underframe is complete. Andy

A worthwhile improvement as I think we discussed when I visited. 79 trains - im soooooo jealous! I can manage just over 20 and I’m always looking for more space.

Good spot, I should have looked in LNER Standard Gresley Coaches! Either way it seems to me that you could use a standard ‘horrible’ Hornby or Kirk with two d.368s to form the earlier train. This could be a stepping stone until you can source the d.157/229s for the later train.

I agree Tony, it’s the weight that does it. My standard RTR Pacifics will haul 10-15 RTR coaches but rather less kit built as you said. However put a white metal body on a RTR mechanism and it will haul as much as a DJH Pacific. My SEF A3 which I acquired in bits with a horrible tender drive mechanism now has a Hornby A3 chassis and will haul anything I throw at it - I’ve had it running on 25 RTR coaches as a bit of fun...anymore and the coaches fell off on the corners! Andy

Gilbert, I have found one other example of a 35 ton SLF. The equivalent train in 1956, the 6:50pm Kings Cross Aberdeen FO also has one. You may be right about the typo but it would have had to be carried forward from year to year. I have also found a reference in ‘Gresley’s coaches by Harris (the brown book) on p114/5 which refers to the otherwise identical PV d.138 SLFs being ‘38.5 tons, two tons heavier than the steam heated cars’ (d.17). I know this doesn’t quite add up, but possibly the 38 tons refers to the later cars and 35 tons to the earlier cars. Both are identical externally as per the Hornby sleeper. I know you hanker after a longer Gresley SLF in which case you’d need to model the later train of the two you suggested (or cheat!). This would require two d.157/229 Gresleys. The d.157 is a relatively simple cut and shut of Kirk kits but you’d need to find three sets of Kirk sleeper sides to make two coaches and they aren’t easily available. I don’t know of a brass alternative. Regards Andy

Gilbert, I’m glad your coachaholic tendencies have been awakened! I agree about the d.368s. I think the 43 ton SLFs are Gresleys to d.157 (as mine above) or d.227 (which is much more difficult because it has even spacing of the windows for the berths unlike the Kirk donor). I don’t know about the 35ton car. I initially thought of the 61ft Gresley SLF (as per Hornby main range and Kirk) but that is 38 tons I believe. I’m sure your detective abilities will track down the correct diagrams fairly quickly - happy researching! Andy

Clive, I also looked at the Railroad sleepers for cut and shut opportunities, particularly for the articulated twins. They’re hopelessly compromised as Hornby just seem to have squashed all the berths to get it into their standard body length. However I do intend to use a couple as donors with Mousa sides for a twin. Andy

Just a couple of photos to encourage you. The Gresley is cut and shut Kirk, and probably not up to your standards. The Thompson is Mousa sides which go together very well. I just wish Bill did the Thompson SLF as I’d love to add one of those to the stable. Anyone know of any source for one of those? Regards Andy

I’d convinced myself from Tony’s photos that the boiler marginally overlapped the cab windows, but this is clearly not right looking at DLT’s pictures. So I’ll do a lot of measuring next time I have a modelling session and will report back on progress. Thanks for the comments Andy

I look forward to seeing the results of that thought process. Those 66 footers are beautiful!

Drummond also developed an L12 - a further T9 variant with a larger boiler but sitting on an identical chassis and wheel arrangement to the T9; no kit or RTR model is known to exist for this class, and so after some time with this sitting on my "missing" list, I managed to persuade my good friend Arun Sharma to draw and 3D print a body with the idea that this would then sit on a donor Hornby T9 chassis: We then decided that this would not be heavy enough and that it would be improved by etching the footplate, cabsides etc, and casting the boiler, firebox and smokebox in white metal - all of which Arun then undertook; after a couple of false starts, and with the help of another RM Webber, the build is now making good progress and I will report further in due course. _________________________________ I am the RMWebber that Tony mentioned above, and he's asked me to report on progress on here... so here goes. When I visited Tony a couple of weeks ago, he showed me the progress, but the white metal boiler was looking distinctly ovoid. He was talking of starting from scratch with brass tube for the boiler but I do like the weight that a white metal boiler provides and the casting was good apart from the ovoid problem, so suggested that it could be rescued with some heavy duty soldering. Anyway, one thing led to another and I volunteered to have a go. Sadly I didn't take a photo of the boiler before I started, but this picture shows the extent of filling required. I solder a brass strip along the inside, and then filled the gap with low melt solder. It seems to have produced a boiler which looks round, and now measures the same vertically and horizontally (it was 2mm different originally). I then did the same for the smokebox, producing a nicely weighty boiler to sit on the brass footplates. I have now attached this combo to the footplate and added the smokebox door which is the acid test of whether it's truly round. I'd be grateful for any comments on what I've done so far, in particular any obvious errors, before I continue dressing the boiler. Tony, Are the L12 pictures you leant me subject to copyright? If not it would be useful to post one or two, so that the non aficionado knows what it's supposed to look like - being an LNER man, I'm ashamed to say that I'd never heard of an L12! Regards Andy

Wonderful train Gilbert with a great mix of vanfits. So many parcels trains on modelrailways are formed of BGs only, so it’s great to see how it really was. Do you have any evidence for the type of vanfit used, or was it just whatever came to hand? Andy

Tony, Scenic modelling of the highest order as always. I look forward to inspecting it first hand tomorrow. Andy

Doh! Why didn’t I think of that. Thanks for the tip. Andy

I used Mousa sides for my d130. They were OK, but quite difficult to attach at the roof. I find the lip on the MJT sides which locates under the cornice makes the job easier. Not sure whether comet also have this lip as I have only built their Thompson’s.

Tony, It’s a shame you didn’t make Raikex as I think it’s the sort of show that’s more to your taste than many of the more mainstream shows. A couple of layouts particularly took my fancy - Hornsey Broadway for a very convincing grimy take on North London in the Late sixties and Kirkby Stephen West which had a fantastic selection of intriguing wagons. I think there were too many oddities for it be prototypical, but they were fascinating. Apparently many were kits designed by a couple of the exhibitors, one working in etches and the other in 3D printing. Both kept the punters occupied with continual action. My daughter voted Kirby Stephen West as her favourite layout ever.... but I think this was mainly because of the camp fire which emitted smoke! Andy

Tony, I’m just back from Railex at Aylesbury. It was an excellent show with some superb layouts and just the range of traders that anyone could wish for. No shortage of metal kits at this show! I came away with a J6 from SE Finecast and a RDEB Tourist BTO both of which I’m looking forward to making. Anyway, reason for posting is that I was looking for some low melt solder on the Hobby Holidays stall, and the proprietor drew my attention to his 100C white metal solder which he told me sticks (is that the right word for solder?) to brass as well as white metal thereby removing the need to tin the brass first. Have you come across this as it sounds too good to be true?! I wil try it out over the next few weeks and report back. Regards Andy

Steve, Tony posted a couple of good photos of twins in post 18038 (I hope this link works: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/?p=2800688).This clearly shows them without lining. But I thought you would have some good evidence and I agree the photo in Banks and Carter looks like the upper lining is present. It seems that either is valid depending on era/ painted number - vive la difference! Andy

They look fantastic Steve. I’ve only built the Mousa sides, but have a pair of the Southern Pride sides to build. One question. You have put lining above the windows, whereas the photos I can remember seeing only have the waist level lining like most Gresley coaches in maroon. Do you have a photo on which you have based this? Regards Andy

Great work Andrew (and Jessie), This conversion’s been on my list for some time, but was pondering on how to do the underframe. Your approach sounds like a sensible approach which certainly captures the look of these elegant twins. I will promote mine up the ToDo list! Andy PS. Congratulations from me too Tony for your milestone. As others have said, this thread is a must read. It’s like my morning papers!