airnimal

I have ordered Masterclub rivets and bolts many times from Historex. I have always had good service everytime I have used them.

I have found some old Pressfix tranfers that didn't work very well could be used like Methfix ones. Perhaps it's worth a try rather than throw them away.

Thanks. I am sure all the requests that I am asked to do will be declined with a polite smile. I think this would be a better wagon to go with a MS&LR outside framed 0-6-0.

Please be careful when you do find a copy to buy. I know friends who have them, and have found that the pages fall out because of poor binding.

Like everyone else I am delighted to have RM web back. I am not sure how many of photographs have disappeared from my ramblings so I have added some old ones from the past. I have included a few of my favourite models.

Out yesterday, I came across some old wood on a jetty. With it being well worn I took a couple of photographs to compare it to what I have being trying to achieve with my wagons. I think I don't have enough grey in my models but I am more than happy with the texture. The last photograph clearly has some newer planks with less grain.

Not a lot happening here. Household chores and car related subjects are at the forefront of life at present. I think this is as far as it's going to go for a few weeks because of life's little jobs that were so straight forward years ago before the internet. Changing insurance was once a quick visit to a broker that would do the job for you but now it's spend hours on the I-pad. And if you need to phone up to query anything it's 20 minutes of cr*p music at premium rate. Sorry for the rant ! I have joined the grumpy old man's club. Headstock and solebar's fixed but not trimmed to size just yet but the wheels have been installed.

I wasn't going to start anything until I had finished all my other wagons but the photograph in the latest LNWR journal featuring a Dia 53 coal wagon is just to good to ignore. Besides the sun has come out and it feels like spring once again, even the Bluetits are in our bird box. I think this is going to be a long build because of all the other jobs and visiting we have to do. I am sure my better half has many things that I don't know about pencilled in for me without me knowing. So the floor has been marked out with the bottom doors including the counter sunk holes for the fixing bolts. The floor has been cut slightly over long to be trimmed back later. I am struggling to get everything evenly marked out. The plank width on the bottom doors is not as consistent as I would have liked.

After being offered my old job back again, I was offered another similar position from one of my cycling friends. I have known him for many years and I knew he ran the family engineering firm after his father died. But like my old firm his workforce is down to just him and one other cycling friend. When I told him about being offered my old job back he said I could go and work for him instead ! And them my wife who retired last Christmas was offered a job from a friend of hers. This time it was full time but on a fabulous salary. She was tempted by the money but on reflection decided that at her age she didn't need the hassle. It appears that us old folk are still wanted . I went out on my bike last week for the first time since my operation and did just short of 40 miles. I was very pleased that it didn't cause me any discomfort which is a good sign for the future. Not much in the way of model making just at present but I keep doing little bits. I revisited one of my old wagons and repainted the interior. I am still not happy with my interpretation of the colour of wood. I don't have a artist's eye to these things. Compare this one to another I made before which has a more cream colour. I also added the retaining straps to the bottom of the W-irons on the Exactoscale chassis that I made awhile ago.

Looking through my letters and notes from Tony Watts who wrote the book on Ince Wagons was a photocopy of a photograph from Scot Lane Colliery with a similar plate to the one Lindal Moor. This is slightly smaller being only one plank wide but in the same position. If I have breached copyright by putting it on here I will remove it. Interesting it do show that some wagons built in Wigan have the coach bolts on the outside with the hexagonal nuts on the inside, some with large washers. A couple more examples of wagons with cast plates. There are two more from the same colliery I have numbers for with plates including one with the plate on the door which would have made closing the door very difficult because of the extra weight.

I have made a S7 model of a Wigan coal and iron Co wagon with a cast plate. This plate looks bigger than the one in the photograph taken at the Lindale Moor mine. The model was made from a drawing in a book of drawings in Coal Trade Wagons by Len Tavender and a photograph from the Gloucester wagon collection. I have made several other wagons from the Wigan area with cast plates

I have to apologise to everyone on here because I used the wrong term for something I claimed to have done. I didn't make the staircase, but the staircase panels, handrails and all the uprights. I didn't mean to make out that I built the stairs but all the parts still had to be made strong and safe. The thought any of person falling through a glass panel and and down the stairs is quite alarming. It is far stronger than the ones that were previously there. A new magazine from the LNWR society came today with a fabulous centre fold picture of Warwick road coal depot. The line of wagons includes 3 LNWR wagons with different loads which is invaluable for modelling. The interior shots clearly indicate that the planks on the inside do not have a chamfer like the outside. Also the coach bolts are virtually invisible and probably counter sunk into the wood. One wagon is labelled coal wagon but is carrying clay pipes packed in straw while another is carrying something like sand or soil. The colours of the wood are similar on 2 of them with the third looks like lime or other dry powder. All 3 are similar to my model but from different diagrams. All are weathered with faded markings and chalk destinations scribbled on. My wife went yesterday to a retail park to buy the grandchildren some more clothes, so I went with her and called into my old work place. I usually have Christmas dinner with them but with covid this hasn't happened for the past 2 years. What a change ! 2 of the highly skilled staff have gone, one because he was 75 and just had a triple heart bypass and the other because he just had a large inheritance. So there was only the bosses daughter and one young skilled lad who was holding the fort. I got him the job when his mother was working with my youngest daughter and ask if she knew anyone was looking for a skilled tool maker. He had been made redundant from a large engineering company just after he finished his apprenticeship. Would you like to come back and work for us again was not something I was expecting. Choose your own hours for as many days as you like but it's not going to happen. It was good to see them but I have no desire to work for a living again. I wonder if they can keep going in a highly specialised field with so little staff and bulging order books.

Simon, thank you for your kind words. I would dearly love to build a diorama or small layout to place my models in, but there never seems to be enough time. I thought being retired it would be a simple task just to knock up a small test track to push a few wagons around but I hadn't figured into the mix my other half involvements in all things grandchildren. We agreed that we would have them one day a week to save on nursery fees. Silly me assumed that they would come here and sit and play with a few toys on the floor without much trouble. My wifes idea is we would take them everywhere like the zoo, cinema, play centres etc etc. If I mention that she is trying to do to much all I get is that she missed out as a child and her grandchildren will not. In theory it is one day a week but in practice it is far more often because of operational needs and crises. I blame the media and advertising for telling us we have to do everything in our power to fill there little lives to the max. Our grandsons went to a party on Sunday which cost for their parents over £800. This was for children aged 4. I love my grandchildren the same as everyone but it appears the jelly and a balloon to go home with is not enough these days. If I say anything I am made out to be a grumpy old sod who needs to get with it. Over the last six months I have decorated the kitchen, bathroom and 2 bedrooms and she is now eyeing up the No 3 bedroom before our daughter comes here in June. On top of this my wife likes to farm me out to do all sorts of jobs for her friends and neighbour's. I built our staircase with chrome and polished wood banisters including glass panels. This was because the old wood one was getting past it and becoming unsafe. I didn't want to spent 3 days doing it but needs dictated it. One of my wife's friends has seen it and has told me I can do the same at her house which is brand new even though she has more than enough money to pay a top builder to come in and do it for her. Rant over ! Brake vans to finish.

I haven't heard of the Vimes boots theory before because I don't read fiction. I don't need anyone else's nonsense in my head because I have enough of my own. I did read the Lord of the rings once but I found it hard going, I tend to read about history or biographies . I do agree about buying good quality tools and have never regretted buying any. In fact I regret not buying some that I would have like but at the time didn't have the spare money to pay for them. John, the idea for a small layout is still in my head but at the moment we are still coming to terms with life after lock down and trying to get back to normal. So I just get a few wagons out and read plenty of railway books and dream.

It was my friend's comments about the cost of wagon kits that led me to mention it here. He was starting from scratch and required a large number of wagons to populate his new venture. He was building a particular railway in the period about 1910 so needed wagons to fit the bill for the time and locality. So it was a case of sourcing kits to achieve his high standards of build and represent accuracy that satisfied him. We have come a long way since the days of plastic wagons kits like 3H that satisfied modellers 50 years ago. But my friend was starting from scratch so needed 60 or 70 wagons and even if one bought wagons costing between £35 and £50 it is still a considerable amount of money. And then there is the cost of 10 locos and 30 coaches and the layout to build. As I said before, I scratch build because I am a hopeless at kit building. I couldn't even put a Coopercraft plastic wagon together properly. Nick, I think I have given up the idea that I am going to build any GWR wagons. I don't have the passion or knowledge to build any that will be accurate enough to satisfy me. Any with so many expert's watching and pointing out errors, it's probably better to concentrate on things I know more about.

I was going to start a new thread on the cost of O gauge wagons but I have forgotten how to go about starting a new one so I have added this on here. A friend is starting to build a large O gauge pre-grouping layout in S7. And he has sought my opinion of various wagon kits available. And one of the questions came up were the costs of kits and especially when upgrades were deemed necessary because of inferior parts or to fit the wagon in the correct time period. We are aware of course that the wheels would have to be changed fo S7 but the other aspects would still be necessary in finescale as well. And then the conversation turned to second hand values and never getting back the amount spent in the first place. We know that this is our hobby and very few hobbies are cost effective but this came home to us just recently when the sale at auction of a beautiful layout in S7 with professional built rolling stock went for peanuts compared with what it cost to build. We believe that had the layout and stock being finescale it would have generated more money provided it had been looked after the original owner died. At least all my S7 wagons have wheels that can be changed for finescale if necessary when I'm gone unless any of my grandchildren want them which I doubt. My friend mentioned that some 4 wheeled wagons when up graded to his standards were going to cost in the region of between £70 to £80 each and then they still needed building, and some of the more exotic ones were going to cost more. Getting old, the subject always come to what are your family going to do when one goes to the engine shed in the sky and how much are your models worth ? I have heard horror stories of families selling entire collections quickly just to get there hands on some money rather than wait until friends in the know can realise a realistic price through the right channels. When I first started on O gauge 40 years ago one could buy a Slaters wagon kit with everything in for a few pounds. Of course wages were different then and the cost of living we all know about but when do we find it's starting to get to much. I scratch build for several reasons but the main one is I am useless at kit building, but a bonus is the cost which rarely goes over £20 per wagon. I have several friends older than myself with vast collections which I know they have spent amazing amounts of money on which frightens me a little especially when my best friend mentions with tongue in cheek he will skip all my models when I go to save time.

Nick, it's not the steel frame that I can use again but the Exactoscale internal part that I will use for something else. I have nothing to report from my workbench but I have some news from my surgeon who has given me the all clear to resume life. I can ride my bike and go on holiday and drive again. My last test came back positive with my PSA level at zero. That's the good news but then my other half has decided that the second bedroom has to be decorated before the Australian crew come here in June. Not only decorated but new beds and all them rest off the paraphernalia. Trying to move beds, wardrobes and dressing tables from room to room and sometimes back again as well as all the painting is not my favourite pastime. And then the cost on top of losing our not claims bonus on our car because her indoors has bumped our chariot into a posh Audi in B & Q carpark. It was only about 5 mph but it's still caused a considerable amount of damage to our car as well as the losing the £300 excess. Deep joy ! So with no modelling being produced I got out a few wagons to remind me of what I want to achieve in the future.

I don't have a great deal of knowledge on the present day preservation scene and what wagons are lurking about. But when I went to the Great Central Railway for a run on that railway we stayed over at Quorn where the wagon group are undertaking rebuilding a number of projects. One such wagons is a 7 plank ex- private owner wagon in a distressed state.

Try as I might to build this van I am admitting defeat. There are only so many rejects I can muster before I end going completely mad. I can still rescue the underframe for something else that hopefully won't be as taxing. The ratio between scrap and models completed is becoming unacceptable.

I sat and looked at my progress last night and was totally unsatisfied with my work. I find it harder to make of a model that I don't have much interest in. I don't have any GWR models so in building this van it hasn't my usual enthusiasm. So I have started again and cut the ends out and chamfer the edges to make the right angle joins under the corner frames. All the overhang will be cut back later.

Richard, thank you for the photograph which is very helpful. Len Tavender has 2 drawings in his railway equipment drawings book of these vans, one iron frame and one wooden underframe. The iron frame one looks identical to your photograph so I'm hoping that if I model a van using this I won't be too far out. I have cut out the basic body of 60 thou and scribed with my usual Olfa cutter. I have angled the blade to make the cut with a more pronounced groove than I normally do. I am not sure this will be any better but it does make the line wider. Until I get around to painting this I will not sure if this is a improvement or not. Trying to photograph the sides in white plastic is not easy. I have cut the sides into 3 pieces and stuck the middle section onto a backing of 20 thou because the door part is stood proud of the body. Nick, if what you say about the top and bottom of the frame being slightly different it would be helpful if you had dimensions that showed the amount needed to be removed from the bottom part. Can you tell me about the bump stops above the axleboxes ? Are they solid wood and to the right of the door on the frame there is a small rod of some sort. Do you know what it is or for please. Any help is gratefully received because my knowledge of things GWR is very limited. I have a couple of books on GWR matters so I will look what the rivets and bolts are like on similar wagons.

Nick, thank you for that information which is very useful because I do not have the Atkins book. I have measured my attempt and it works out at 72 thou wide. According to my conversion chart 3" works out at 68.90 thou which is close enough for me. Incidentally the Coopercraft mouldings work out to about 82 thou wide. So with this new information to me I will carry on and do a little bit more.

I have been pointed in the direction of some photographs on another web site and some more information. I keep referring to steel frames when perhaps I should call them iron frames. I don't believe that the Coopercraft mouldings would be suitable to adapt to what I require. Looking at the photographs of a suitable van and looking at my last effort I don't think it is too far out. I could do with knowing the dimension of the part of iron frame which projects out so I could measure against my own effort.

I'm totally unsatisfied with my efforts with this attempt at a steel frame. My library doesn't run to many GWR books and my knowledge even less. Once I posted the first pictures last night I was horrified to look at the thickness on the edge of the angle. Then I measured the thickness to discover it was close to 60 thou. Clearly this is not correct so I made another attempt using 10 thou in place of the 20 thou used previously. This reduced the thickness considerably and was better visually but I am still unhappy with my progress. I then remembered I still had a moulded plastic spruce for a Coopercraft kit in my bits box which I could compare it with. This when placed along side of my efforts reinforced my opinion that my is undernourished. I looked at my stock of Evergreen section and I don't have the necessary angle available, so until I acquire some of the larger size I will have to abandoned this for the time being. I think in this case my lack of knowledge of the subject and my desire to restore my mojo got the better of me. A case of fools rush in !

I had a blood test this morning before I talk to the surgeon next week. I am hoping he says I can travel overseas and get back on my bike. I also went to the dentist as well for the first time in nearly 3 years. Is this the start of the return of normal life ? I looked at the GWR van I made a mess of awhile ago and wondered if I should have another go at it. There are a couple of drawings in Len Tavender's railway equipment drawings of these vans. One have a wooden solebar and one has a steel underframe. The steel underframe always has an appeal to me and I have a couple of wagons made with them. Going to my box of Evergreen plastic section I discovered the that there wasn't a complete match for the size I required. I therefore had to make up the size I needed from different parts. So a flat piece of 20 X 188 thou had a couple of pieces of angle glued top and bottom to form the right size channel. On the back the 2 parts of the angle did not meet in the middle, so a infill of 20 X 60 was used before another piece of 20 thou thicken the whole lot up. Now I have the basic frame I cannot at this stage glue a floor on top because the outside frame of the van sits on top of this channel section. I will have to make the body first and glue the floor higher up in the body. This makes this van slightly more difficult to make than a normal wooden underframe.