Simond

I heard that they found Shergar in France.

in Cannes…

"The site of the brickworks is now part of an industrial estate"

My mum was the secretary there long before I was born!

Barker and Jones if memory serves. 

it does, and look what Google finds, very sombre.

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/barker-and-briscoe-brickworks-wirral-april-2018.113996/

Having been part of a group visit a wee while back, I can only say, get yourselves organised, speak to the guys, and hope you can make it happen.  
 

It was a brilliant weekend, and a thoroughly lovely day courtesy of John, Steve and the Lime Street crew.

I do hope a repeat will be possible one day.

4 hours ago, kevinlms said:

So absolutely, you are making the claim that these 'fakes' are as good or the same as the real ones supplied officially via Dapol.

 

So I ask again, how do you KNOW this is true, or are you making up what you want to believe to be true?

 

Fakes come in all 'standards' for want of a better term, from indistinguishable to most people, to absolute crap. One thing for sure, any warranty won't be honoured by the real business behind genuine products.

firstly, I said “I don’t know”.

Secondly I don’t have any skin in the game, I have no shares in Dapol, and I’m not involved in grey importing of anything, still less model trains.

Thirdly, I expressed an opinion, which might be no better or worse than yours, but 

Fourthly, I’ve been involved in international manufacturing business for forty-odd years so I’ve a bit of experience of precisely this sort of thing happening.

Fifth, I suspect the investment cost of producing even a poor fake would entirely rule out any other manufacturing route.

and so finally, I outlined what I considered to be the most likely scenario.

But if you have a better explanation, do share…

Turning to the warranty, if one is prepared to purchase stolen goods (for that is what they are, if my suggested scenario is correct) then I suspect it’s trivial to commit fraud on the warranty.  Buy an identical one from a UK vendor, return the failed one with the UK receipt.  Presuming one is sufficient, sell the extra on eBay.

And opening every box on arrival in the uk, and applying a sticky serial number?  Sorry, that’s laughable.

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

How do you know that Dapol can't tell the difference between of their products and a 'fake' one?

Kevin,

I do not know.

As I originally explained, my supposition is that the so-called “fake” products are made on the same production lines from exactly the same materials, in the same moulds, with the same paint and transfers, probably by the same staff, and are packed in the same boxes as “genuine” ones.  They are exactly & precisely the same.  They are not really “fake”.
 

The difference is they have been sold through a different & unauthorised route, (the “back door” if you will) meaning that a) they compete with, and impact sales of legitimate product, and b) Dapol and its authorised resellers make no margin on these sales, both of which impact Dapol’s recovery of their investments, and profitability, which none of us want, I expect.

On this basis, as has been noted, and as I noted in my original post, the only way that they can be differentiated from those sold by an authorised sales outlet, is by the sales receipt, and only then if it is itemised.

I doubt that Dapol would want to give a great deal of information, it wouldn’t help them.

atb

Simon

51 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

Except of course that with the exception of direct sales from Dapol your warranty is not with them, it is with the retailer you bought the loco from because that is who your contract is with. In either case though, be it Dapol or a retailer, they would very reasonably expect you to produce proof of purchase as part of any return/warranty claim. if bought direct from China via eBay or otherwise, the only proof of purchase a person could provide would make it self evident that the model was purchased through an unauthorised channel so your warranty and any claim under it would be void.

 

Roy

As I said, “except by receipt , of course”.

 My point was that Dapol’s announcement stated that these products would not be warrantable, I merely said that they couldn’t tell the difference.  
 

Furthermore,  eBay does have an effective customer complaints procedure, presuming the seller has not vanished.  The majority of returns may not go back to Dapol, but of course, some may.

I guess that’s the cost of a minimum wage, holidays, health&safety, etc.

like I said, yer pays yer money…

(and yes, I do have an iPhone…)

I question the use of the word “Fake”.  
 

The items are almost certainly made using the same tooling and processes that the “genuine” ones are, are probably packed in the same boxes, from the same printers and will likely be in all respects indistinguishable from those bought from the Dapol website or factory shop.  I wonder how Dapol can say that they won’t be eligible for warranty, as they won’t be able to distinguish such products from those they have sold any more than the customer can (except by the receipt, perhaps).

The items in question are most probably traded via the factory back door, and will certainly negatively affect Dapol’s profitability, so there are good moral and practical arguments for not buying them, I suspect “fraudulently sold” would probably be a better description.  I do hope that Dapol are able to close the leak, I doubt they will recoup their losses.

Personally, I’d be happy to pay a few pence more to buy stuff made in Europe, or Gt Britain, and there are also moral questions about buying stuff made where the minimum wage, workers rights and health & safety are not as considerate as they are in this part of the world, though I suspect I’m in a minority, as most people seem not to care, unless it’s their personal rights being eroded.  Unfortunately these issues are not uncommon if using cheap sources for one’s products.  
 

“You pays yer money, and you takes yer choice”.

For a given space, the cost in pretty much any gauge will be comparable, as the scale goes up, the amount of track, points and stock required to fill it goes down.  And, if you build your own, the enjoyment, and time taken per kit, goes up.

Don't forget we lost Bristol too. 

It’s necessary because it’s sunny down here in Kent

(well, sometimes :) ) 

MG are back too, but bear little relationship to the original marque - just “Badge Engineering”

(sorry, don’t know what happened to the quote)

9 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Polaroid is back

Likewise, was travelling back from holidays & couldn’t get to Kettering.  Two coaches, two TGVs, a Eurostar, and two Javelins.  Breakfast in Grenoble, lunch in Lille, dinner at home 🙂
 

Some nice new stuff for the dark green team….  😄. (Shame there were no new panniers on show 🤣 Theres at least one that’s not available RTR!!!)

I have absolutely no intention of purchasing a Western, but the maroon one…, the Clark Black5 looks the business, and I’ve a pal who will be rather taken by the pullmans.

Hope to see a few folks at Kempton

Simon

If you want some exceptional modelling, the Lime St crew created an outstanding model of the North Western Hotel in 4mm (EM).

do go look!

Yes, I did indeed mean the suspension spring bump stops.  
 

The left hand one had me confused, but it’s a trick of the light, (and a clue to the colour of the wooden bits, perhaps).

Lovely photos.  What’s going on with the bump stops?  

7 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

57.14285714285714%

J

Approximately.

19 hours ago, airnimal said:

How did they do it ?

Slowly. Very slowly…

I reckon there are three ages of playing trains.  

1 TTE to early teens (then hormones, football, motorbikes, etc)

2 then early married life until the kids are early teens, (typically limited space, budget, time)

3 then empty nest.

I'm blessed, my wife has indulged me, so there was no gap between 2 & 3…

On 11/01/2024 at 17:43, Steamport Southport said:

Warhammer is popular right now. In a few months it might not be. Another hobby that has peaks and troughs. You couldn't give the stuff away a few years ago.

Games Workshop (Warhammer etc) is a fantastic success story.  I wouldn’t mind 1% of their turnover. (And I’d bet Hornby, Heljan, Bachmann and Dapol are jealous too)

“…

Games Workshop is pleased to announce that for the 52 weeks ended 28 May 2023, we estimate the Group’s core revenue to be not less than £440 million (2021/22: £387 million) and licensing income of £25 million (2021/22: £28 million). The Group’s profit before tax is estimated to be not less than £170 million (2021/22: £157 million). 

…”

Dave confirmed you were in contact, all good.

Passed your request - don’t have an email but hope it will help

There’s a lot of low cost opportunity, by searching the cheap bins at shows, and being careful on eBay.  00 is relatively easy, 0 is certainly possible.

I would not discount DC in any way, but given the prevalence of digital items in our lives, I suspect any technically minded kid would probably grab DCC with both hands, I certainly would have done, indeed, some 25 years ago, I did!  Marry that with laptops, Decoder Pro, Java and Arduinos, and it’s cool geek rather than dad-hobby-geek….

(and directly transferable into academic/work-related skills)

9 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

- he's as accommodating as a Dalek with a migraine

i had a boss like that once…