Forester

When you say "New", do you mean New?

If a model has sat on a shop shelf for five years, is it really New?

If the same model sat on my shelf for five years, you would say it is Used. But quite a few of my models are unused and never taken out of the box, being bought for projects set aside. Yet the "New" models on the shop shelf are often really Used, having been tried in the shop by several propective purchaers.

Perhaps what you mean is "pristine unused", like my sad left-on-my-shelf models waiting hopefully their layout will be started,  I mean completed.

In which case there are vast numbers of suitable available out there being sold by people like me whose project planning far outstrips their ability to build.

I buy nearly all my stuff now through eBay, described as "new unused" with plenty of large pictures to check the models are pristine - and have not yet had to return one (which of course you can do whether the seller likes it or not under the eBay buyers guarantee scheme).

Now I have at least one railway to run them on, I am unable to distinguish between the ones bought "new" from a model shop and the ones bought on eBay sold on unused by - well, people like me!

We live at a time where vast numbers of models are pumped out by ever-increasing numbers of producers to an ever-reducing model fraternity. Probably only a small proportion of those purchases ever get used before they are sold on.

Explore the Unused eBay, or similar, market.

In my view Hornby are missing an opportunity here.

They should treat Railroad as a stand alone range with its own marketing manager and build up brand loyalty by offering a complete Railroad all-you-need-for-a-simple-layout range including budget rolling stock, buildings, locos all in a chosen compatible era - a sort of big brother of Thomas.

Items could cascade down from the main Hornby range, suitably toughened up by removing some of the delicate detail, but there should be no marketing confusion between the two ranges.

Due to graveyard upheaval caused by people turning over, the Bassett-Lowke Steampunk is to be rebranded the Waterman Punk Steam Range.

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Just a reminder to the Ford brigade (it has to be black); it is the model that is produced in conjunction with Locomotion, not a specific livery version which may, or may not, be like the one in the museum.  [See the very first post for verification.]  So the black BR version also contributes to the museum coffers.

 

EDit to add:  My use of SECR loco was to differentiate between the D Class and the other cheaper locos being used in comparison, not to suggest a livery version.

Forty pounds is more than a "contribution" to the "museum coffers".

I won't pay it and I think there'll be serious resistance to this price - and I'm a SECR modeller.

They should take soundings from the community before committing to a large volume run.

3 hours ago, cypherman said:

Might I suggest you buy a Wrenn Merchant Navy engine. Ok not as detailed as the Hornby one, Buy boy does it have more presence on the layout. Plus it pulls like the proverbial steam train. I have 3 of them and decided not to buy the Hornby one because of this.

The Wrenn is not a Merchant Navy but a West Country - and the motor sticks out of the back of the cab!

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Let's not forget that the SECR locomotive is a Locomotion model and as such a portion of the profit is supposed to support the NRM and its collection.

It would be a reasonable price for a special finish SECR as preserved NRM limited edition model -

but not for a plain black one, by a long way.

1 hour ago, mikesndbs said:

 

 

Thanks, is there any fix?

It's the way the MN body is assembled and glued together so not unless you can unglue it and make a better fit. Never tried and think it unlikely without further damage.

It is normal for the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy - if at the wide end of the normal range.

(I have most of them although the majority are body only for identity changes)

Trying to get my head around the fact that Dapol expect to produce their new Manor for an affordable just under £160 but in conjunction with Rails the D class is expected to be an unaffordable "hopefully just under £200".

Puzzled.

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Price is a perineal discussion on this forum, and has been in the model railway press for over 60 years. There is some stuff on my blog from 2010 with letters saying exactly this.

Every thread about products can, and often does, descend into people moaning things cost too much. If that's what you want then we'll stay away, along with most of the other readers.

What is the result of these discussions? Nothing at all. Stuff costs what it costs. If it's too much, we don't buy it and the manufacturer either finds a way to make things cheaper, or more likely exists the market to do something that makes them money, that's how business works.

But todays model railway items don't have a "cost".

They have a RRP, 

an initial discounted price (limited by manufacturers),

a general discounted price ( after the period of time specified by manufacturer),

a more discounted price (after the major retailers find they can't sell their stock),

a sale price ( when they find they Really can't sell their stock),

and a Flash Sale price when all else fails.

Then there's the internet New Unused (I really didn't need this) Buy it Now price

and the internet auction price.

It's not as simple as saying "if its too much don't buy it".

To what level will any given item descend to before it finally sells out?

The higher the Manufacturer's RRP (and this set of releases crashes through all previous price ceilings) the fewer sell on release and the more cascade into the lower price categories.

Somehow we modellers have to navigate through all this, or feel stupid for having paid far too much, and having fewer remaining funds to buy anything else.

Please do not shout down discussions about price.

It is a perfectly valid discussion point whether an item is or is not likely to sell at the price stated and whether it may be worth waiting for large amounts of unsold stock to be reduced later.

Every one of my 2019 purchases were in plentiful supply later at sale prices had I chosen to decline to pay the initial price.

Draw your own conclusions about my 2020 purchases.

On 27/01/2020 at 05:11, Steamport Southport said:

Basic rules were.

 

Merchant Navy red.

West Country red.

Battle Of Britain blue.

 Not quite.

Merchant Navy & West Country nameplates were red and Battle of Britain nameplates blue when built in Southern Railway colours.

British Railways ordered black nameplates when they were painted into BR Green.

Nameplates started to drift from black back to red (some Battle of Britains into blue and some into red) later in the 1950s.

Early rebuilds were black and later rebuilds red.

Merchant Navy and West Country nameplates were all in red by the early 1960s

Battle of Britain nameplates remained a mix of red, black and blue until withdrawal.

14 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

Don’t get excited it’s an error and won’t be appearing anytime soon 

What does Hornby have against MN Series One?

Where all the best known shipping lines are.

Missed out in the Rebuilt series.

The most attractive and distinctive air-smoothed tender in unrebuilt form.

How many more Holland-Afrika (who?) Lines do we need?

1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said:

 That 4003 Lode Star looks straight out of a decade ago - with all the disfiguring elements of that disappointing release. How many spokes are on that pilot bogie? Surely they will put a handrail on the cab instead of the awful cheap and cheerful shelf? "Design Clever" lives!! Worst of all is the ski-jump footplate in the cab with the scale four foot drop onto the tender floor. (These were glued in place on the original Star releases.) 

 

Please Hornby you will fix this in 2020? Right?

I just assumed they demoted the new Lode Star to Railroad.

Haven't they? ......

42 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

It’s certainly a bold move.

I wonder if there’s a lot more of reinvigorating the brand than actual substance, particularly with the limited editions.

With limited runs of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 and 100 only, in the case of the crude tinplate.

How much will the margins be on these items and is there enough volume to actually contribute anything significant to the bottom line?

 

It certainly detracts from the bread and butter stuff, which must be far more important to Hornby in terms of revenue?

Still some nice newly tooled items and few few re-liveries are going on my shopping list.

 

 

Ron 

Hard to think of a Limited Edition which made money for collectors with a run of more than 1000.

These days limited editions which attract collectors are down in the 500 to 750 range.

The other cloud on the horizon is whether collectors actually buy "Collectors Editions" any more?

From a Hornby survival point of view this looks like a serious gamble on the Collectors market, don't you think?

Apart from the collectors items there's a lot of odd-ball stuff which some people are very excited about but may have a rather restricted market.

It will probably sell OK provided they don't make too much of any one item.

But there's not a huge amount of bread-and-butter items for the lowly occasional part-time hobby modeller like so many of us.

Fair enough, you could say there is plenty already on the market, especially the nearly-new market to keep us going,

This feels like Hornby is taking a risk here.  If it works it could set them back on the road to financial success.

But the collectors will need to bite seriously deeply this year for that to happen.

Hope they are right.

Fingers crossed for Hornby in 2020.

This is Hornby's plan for the whole 2020s decade. Right?

In this day and age how can they get the BR lining colour so wrong?

3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

Many congratulations to Rails on the announcement of No.18000 Brown Boveri Gas Turbine A1A-A1A!

 

The loco has been in The Top 50 of The 00 Wishlist Poll since 2013, apart from 2015 when it was just a handful of votes outside. This year, it came it at position =30.

 

We wish Rails every success with the project.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team, but will be buying one personally )

I'll pay good money for the sound chip alone. 

(That's a challenge I set you by the way, Rails!)

5 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

 However, the issue is that with these being done in such small classes, it also leaves the door open to engines with bigger class sizes that would have a greater follow up order potential as these prototypes tend to be a one off purchase and that in an age where sales matter to recoup costs of tooling with more releases is an important factor that many still overlook.

 

I take issue with the assuption that because a class was numerous in service this would be echoed in model purchase numbers.

I know of no one who buys locos and rolling stock in proportion to the numbers in actual service. We'd have cupbords full of wagons and minimal locos if we did. While we may smirk at the "impulse" buyers, we all to some extent bias our stock to the things we like the look of - be honest.

I'm proud of my fleet of locos, all from those correctly shedded in my area and in condition as in the date I use as a datum, yet there is hardly a BR Standard to be seen, despite the fact they should be there in numbers at that date. I just don't like them.

So by all means consider producing the most numerous missing classes - but don't just assume sales figures will be related.

People like the occasional rarity. Isn't that why we have the Poll?

I suspect there is an element of: "But it looks too much like the N class which we already produce".

In which case why not go for the U1 which is a really interesting looking variation on the U with fewer of the variations people seemed concerned about.

1 minute ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Forester

 

Bear in mind that all four you mention are in the high end of High Polling. Pretty consistent positioning over the years.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

Quite so.

The D1 does seem to be pulling clear of the other SE 4-4-0s this year.

My impression in previous polls was a closer clustering (maybe you could confirm that - or otherwise).

If so, we SE 4-4-0 fans need to get behind the D1 next year.

All I'm saying is the demand for a useful BR SE 4-4-0 is stonger than the current split vote suggests and the D class possibly won't satisfy it, nice though a pretty SECR or a (scrapline? does that sound ungrateful? - sorry!) early BR version will be.

The announcement mid-poll of the SECR D class has possibly scrambled the South Eastern 4-4-0 picture.

Lovely though the D class addition will be, it didn't survive long enough into BR days to satisfy the needs of BR SR modellers who really need a 4-4-0 from the D1, E1, L, L1 range.

The D1 is currently leader in this poll but perhaps we should get behind one or other next year as the vote is currently split between types.

Another useful poll. Thanks to the Team.

There's nothing difficult about selling on eBay!

It takes a while to get set up if you've not used eBay before, but once you're up and running it takes no time at all to relist if the item doesn't sell first time, or list another item in the same format. You'll receive at least twice as much cash as selling to dealers and probably get enough to build your new layout and collection.

I've sold many items on eBay at well above the price I paid (I do keep boxes and look after stuff). The collector buyers are nearly all easy to deal with (unlike some other categories on eBay) and you'll start getting free listing and reduced final value fees once you're seen by eBay as a reliable seller.

Don't give stuff to a dealer and then watch him resell at several times the price he gave you.

On 17/09/2019 at 00:57, autocoach said:

Is there or will there be a 2019 Wishlist Poll?

 

Other than a malachite 4SUB for my collectors closet, there isn't anything new I have left to wish for.

 

Delighted to hear your needs are now nearly all satisfied.

For the rest of us there are huge areas almost untouched - Scotland, big gaps in the South East to name just two.

This year's poll will be as hotly followed and contributed to as ever.

We thank the Team and look forward to 14/10/2019 !