61656

I’ve managed to find a few hours recently to get on with the wiring for board 3, which is obviously the second board to be wired! I’m a big believer in learning from mistakes and if you read this thread there’s a lot to learn; indeed the net savings you’re making just by following along almost certainly justifies that loco purchase you’ve been mulling over. I decided that my revised point motor wiring would have sufficient oomph to move all 4 blades of a double slip with a single motor, but thought I best try it first. I should probably have tried it on a single end before fitting new single tie-bars to each slip. One failed trial later and I gained the opportunity to take out and refit double tie-bars at each end of 3 slips, 12 in total. That set back behind me though and the rest of the wiring has gone well so far. All 20 point ends (which make up 8 sets) on this board are now wired and tested. A few ends needed tweaking to get them to move nicely, but overall it was all straightforward. Next up is the frog wiring and then all the track feeds. This is far and away the most complex board, so I’ll be glad to see the back of it. I need to start thinking about a temporary panel to control the points as it will interface directly to this board, I think it will be a simple (i.e. unnecessarily complicated) mimic panel, with just point controls for the moment. It would be great to be sharing pictures of a no-heat peak on a coast-bound relief service formed of a scratch rake of mark 1’s, but you’ll just have to imagine that for yourself for now.

What a great layout - definitely inspirational and the weathering of the locos and stock is superb. I also take some solace from your timescales, it makes me feel so much better about my own progress! Looking forward to the next meeting now, although I guess work is out of the window.

Time for the first update of the year, prompted by Coronach's post.... Having been full of enthusiasm for modelling in what is now referred to as Twixtmas, I was fortunate to have a few days away with Mrs 61656 in Chester. We spent a very enjoyable day drinking our way around the city, managing to drop in to Chester Model Centre along the way before finding the just as excellent Cavern of the Curious Gnome. I recommend both and I'm still not entirely sure which one took more money off me. Suffice it to say I managed to acquire both the least and most powerful locos running on the network in 1986 (I think, although I now wonder if an APT power car had more horses). I'm sure you can work them out / prove me very wrong. When I returned home for a quick run on the 5 feet of available track, the wind was somewhat knocked out of my sails when both locos ran terribly. It was one of those moments of shear deflation. I had been slowly building myself up for a return to action, when unexpectedly in a work meeting this week I noticed the "gentleman" next to me (gentleman is a broad term and only loosely associated with signal engineers) was pursuing RMweb. We'd hardly started the tentative "you too?" discussion when before we knew it about 6 people were all confessing to be signed up members. The closet door was well and truly off its hinges! Suitably inspired by the ensuing conversation I had a great evening sorting both locos out and a handful of track issues with the end result that all works well and I'm ready to face up to putting off wiring the next board.

It's a handy trick, not least because the sleeves don't like sliding alongside each other, but also it will confirm beyond doubt that cheap washing up liquid is much lower quality.

They are these little chaps: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-sleeves/3031877/ I use 24/0.2 wire which is a nice interference fit. I'm also from Yorkshire, so I cut the sleeves into halves...

And just like that, a train was running again. Stalwart class 40 D211 (one day it will be D200) rolled the first wheels and proved both continuity and point switching. The class 33 then became the first to shunt in and out of the brewery yard. Prior to that I’d needed to quickly wire up a 15 way D type connector. All the terminals are tinned with a bit of solder first. Each wire is then soldered on. I tend to expose about 8mm of wire, quickly tin it and then cut it back to about 4mm. This allows the wire to neatly solder in with minimum exposed conductor. Wire tends to naturally curl back to its coiled form, but briefly after being tinned it’s soft enough and can be neatly straightened, which avoids 15 wires all fighting with each other. Once all the wires are on, I use a thin blade or similar to just check no stray solder is shorting the terminals. I then put a small amount of washing up liquid on which allows the coloured sleeves to easily slide home. I’m not bothering with connector hoods, but I would if the layout was going to be regularly dismantled. With one board done, it feels like a major milestone has been passed. Once again I can hear the sounds of a cold Sulzer engine firing up and a warning horn sounding as a loco moves off. In theory I can now turn to a range of modelling activities, although I will have a reasonable guess I’ll choose wiring board 3!

Board 2 has had its wiring completed. It is all tested, at least using a meter, but we all know that's not how you test a model railway! It was pleasing to flip the board the right way up and find that all the points move nicely from side to side and the all the frog polarities switched correctly. I did change one tie bar as the existing one had a soldered joint to the switch rail very close to the insulating gap.The shunt frame is fitted to the front of the board using some small hinges, to allow easier access to the wiring. The 3x3 3PDT solder connections were much easier than I expected, which is fortunate as the crossovers on other boards need a 4PDT switch. Overall I'm happy with the appearance of the wiring; it's much neater than the last effort. Even the 15 way D-types have proved quite straightforward to fit. Next job is to wire up a 15 way D type so that I can connect all the track section to the track bus temporarily and allow some trains to run up and down over the festive period. I then plan to split my time, for the sake of my sanity, between wiring board 3 and beginning to build the loco depot and brewery. Both of which will require some very agreeable research!

A little more progress on the wiring. The point motors have all been connected to a terminal block together with their respective frogs (colour coded green for obvious reasons). That pretty much concludes the underboard wiring; there are just a couple more connections to make. I then need to make up the 9 way and 15 way connectors that will link to the neighbouring boards and panels. There is also the connection to the local ‘shunt frame’ which controls the 5 hand points on this board, which will be connected directly to the 19 way terminal block. The shunt frame has had the point motor power wires connected, using earth blocks each side as busbars. The 4 depot hand points have also had their frog feeds common-ed together. The yard point for the Brewery is in a different track section, so has a different feed for the frog. My goal of having a loco moving in the shed under its own power this year (without bodging) moves a step closer.

I can’t remember why I first used 2200uF. I have tried 1100, but that doesn’t provide enough force to be reliable. I suspect that hand built points probably require a bit more persuading to start moving. I’ll be using 4800uF for crossovers, possibly a little more if one end is a 4 blade double slip, due to the additional force to overcome (not least because the switch rails are shorter so do more bending than they do sliding).

I managed to grab a spare hour over the weekend to start the point wiring. Each motor has been fitted with its own make up of diodes and capacitors, with connections to each solenoid and the common. I could then test each motor properly with a pair of flying leads. Pleasingly they all swing both ways without any issues. I’m using 2200uF caps which seems to provide just the right amount of umph for a single end of points. I’ve started making a very basic local panel for the 5 ends on this board, as they are all hand points. Potentially there could be something running on this board this year.

I am looking for an unbuilt Metcalfe Brewery kit PO229 in 00 gauge. My wife suggested a brewery and even said she would build it if there was a kit - I was very surprised to find it discontinued! If anyone has a complete unbuilt kit then there is good money to be made. Thanks, Andy

I've yet to see a convincing steam generator; some work very well for smoke, particularly when they are coordinated with valve events. Steam heat is such a distinctive sight, just occasionally on a UK heritage railway you get a diesel with a boiler fitted and the resulting steam lightly wafting from the carriages. Although no steam at all would probably be better - if it's on the outside of the coach it's not doing much use on the heating front (there is a noticeable difference between railways on how much steam escapes from the coaches). I guess right at the end of steam heating on BR the hoses and rubber washers would all be pretty shot, so there should be steam leaking everywhere. Potentially the right smoke generator in a terminal platform could give just the right impression of a set being pre-heated. I suspect photoshop will be a better option though!

Another spare couple of hours sees all the track feeds complete. So just 4 hours, on board 1 of 4 (currently built, probably 12 in total), to complete the simplicity that is DCC’s 2 wires. It’s undoubtedly good news for the UK’s brewing industry. Fans of my all black wiring colour code will be pleased to see the end feeds are all labelled. Next up is the point motor and frog wiring. I need to build a ‘local’ control panel for the points, to simulate the hand points of the depot. Once that’s done, in theory I can run a few trains up and down on that board alone. A good friend of mine observes that a part built model railway is a soul destroying thing and at this stage I’m inclined to agree. My father’s suggestion of build the layout a foot at a time seems to hold some water. At least until I feel inclined to wire the next board up!

The 25 and 31 both stand the test of time very well, but the peak doesn’t really compare that well to the current Bachmann one - at least being 70’s / early 80’s means you don’t need the sealed beam version. I do prefer the modern motors and drive, not to mention the simplicity of DCC ready, but looking at yours I question if the premium is worth it! Whatever you have done to the 31s windows certainly looks worth the effort. Are there any external differences between a 31/0 and a 31/4? Other than the jumper cables?

Putting off wiring is one of my few genuine talents in the field of model railways and I’ve managed to put that skill to good use in recent weeks. Like a defender who inexplicably rounds two strikers and finds himself coolly slotting the ball past his own keeper, so I found myself tonight wielding the soldering iron. Having been short on modelling time of late, a few issues with the 400 year old homestead had put my passion for wiring lower down the list than checking the rodent traps. But with an unexpected evening to myself I poured a very agreeable beer and wandered in to the railway room determined to do something other than wiring. I should probably find a beer forum where I can relax and occasionally mention model trains. Anyway, I’d noticed an annoying track joint that needed sorting, and before I knew it a happy hour had passed and 28 wires had been soldered at both ends. Previously I had soldered every rail to a central busbar under the board to provide a continuous power feed. That is probably a little over the top and resulted in a lot of wire and quite an untidy appearance. This time I’m just jumpering across rail joins. As the rails are soldered too, this should be reliable enough for a layout which won’t be moving very often. Hopefully another opportunity for an ale will appear shortly and I can press on. Potentially if I have a skin-full the layout will pretty much wire itself.

Great discussion this - brilliant to get so much useful information. I was aware of the Deltic turn - but I thought it was York to Shrewsbury. Was that a different turn or bad info? My own chosen period is 86 (for all the same reasons as Peter), but 1981 does keep calling with class 24s, 40s and even a 55 possibility. Steam heat is a tricky modelling option though!

I always like to see a pass/van train. I never got to experience them, bring just too young (or possibly just unaware). I’ve seen a few photos of surprisingly short van trains with a BSK in them being electric hauled, something I’m keen to recreate. Were there any still running to North Wales in the late 80’s? I haven’t seen any pictures, but then there aren’t many of parcels traffic at all, presumably because it was dark! Super evocative photos as ever though.

In fairness 190 of them are just me correcting a previous post...

I had considered them, but their 3A current rating (as far as I could work out) was a little low. I think the Seep point motors probably pull 5A; I did start doing the calculations but decided it was more effort than it was worth. I use 5A as a sort of default value to ensure that everything has a decent life expectancy. That said, I may well change my mind when I’ve soldered up a few 15 way D-types!

I fully agree with all that. Wiring should be labelled and documented, as soon as it gets more complicated than just a pair of wires. I used various software packages for the first incarnation of my layout, but that became too much like work! For the current version I already had all the point work to reuse, so I used a 1:1 scale model of the layout to ensure all the woodwork is in the right place. I’m literally doing the first wiring runs, and I’m quite tempted to copy your cable clip idea (not least because I have thousands in stock). Andy

Really pleased to have found this layout and I’m looking forward to seeing it develop. There are quite a few parallels with the development of my own layout (except you seem to have more time than me!). Really like the woodwork and especially the wiring - do I spot a fellow signal engineer? Andy

After a brief break for half term (I was doing wiring on the house, so wiring on the layout didn't feel like much of a hobby!), wiring has commenced. I've started on board 2, because it needs to be put in position first as it is located in the alcove. It's also relatively simple, so I can remind myself how to wire it all before it gets complicated. I started by drilling all the holes for the rail feeds. Each section of track is fed from one end and then jumpered across all rail joints. Feeding from a single end will allow track circuit status to be added later using a current detection system. It does mean though, for example, that 'FA' track is fed on board 3, then jumpered to board 2, then again to board 1. This isn't particularly problematic so long as you have a good wiring schedule to tell you what to put where. The first shot shows all the holes drilled, prior to vacuuming to give an idea of how many there are. Next job is to get the board on its side, where you can easily access both top and bottom. Your back will forgive you if you can get it at a reasonable height. You can't see in the picture, but the board is screwed to the hop-up to prevent it toppling. It is surprisingly stable like this. Before any wiring is run, I like to get the motors into position, as they are central to where a lot of wires go. It's worth spending time aligning these properly. So I start by ensuring the point blades are mid-position, and then using black-tack (blutac just isn't as reliable at holding them firm), with the point motor also in mid position I line the motor up. The tie bar is just a copper clad sleeper, drilled roughly in the middle (note you'll need to slit the sleeper to the side of the point motor's lever, otherwise it can short the rails together). Then, using this handy little wordworking tool is used to determine the angle of the tie bar. Then behind the board you can ensure that the motor is exactly aligned with the tie-bar. This motor has a section cut out from the previous layout, but it still works, so its getting used! Once aligned I pre-drill with a 3mm wood bit to about 2mm deep, before securing with two screws. At this stage it never hurts to use a couple of flying leads from a power supply to check the motor drives the point smoothly (it won't, there's copydex everywhere, but you can soon sort that). All 5 motors fitted and ready for the next stage. This should be fitting the capacitors and diodes, but as I realised I hadn't ordered any 2200uF caps for single ended points, there will be a brief interlude. Time then to move on to track wiring. The yard track isn't track circuited, but all on a single feed from board 2. The inter-board connectors will all be wired to the terminal block you can see top left. The fans of the Model T ford school of wiring can sleep easily knowing the main feeds are labelled. The first two jumpers are also installed, but not labelled for sanity reasons and are also much less likely to be knocked loose and quite simple to identify where they should go if they do. Just another ten thousand wires to go!

Pretty much, although I think my original intention was always for 510A to be the left-most end, it just didn't look like that due to the other amount of clutter getting in the way of the point numbers. Andy

Coloured wiring? Crazy! In other news I’ve correctly identified 510B and 511 were somehow numbered the wrong way around. I need a new designer.

One of the last bits of dismantling of the old layout is the rats’ nest of wiring. A couple of hours with a coffee, the soldering iron and the rugby on in the background made surprisingly light work of the task. I was supposed to be moving a couple of tonnes of bark chippings, but the liquid weather justified some rearranging of the jobs being put off. I think there’s not a lot in the way of starting the wiring in earnest. I probably need to do a quick order for missing components, but there’s plenty to be getting on with in the meantime.