Focalplane

You and me both Paul, as l have said l have built many locos in my life but since the DCC revolution things have really got better, l have been shunting wagons around all afternoon on one of my mates small shunting yard layout and it has been great fun with an 08 with a Paul Chetter sound chip fitted, l think the diesel sounds are far better than the steam sounds (IMHO) the steam is OK when shunting around blowing and hissing but when they get going they all seem to be just chuff-chuff and boring,  l have some so l will probably move them on too.. and go totally modern..(again) Hahahahaha

Yes, George. I should add that listening to the sounds on my Lee Marsh Jubilee compared to recent sound files from Youchoos and Digitrains, the steam offerings are getting much better. But so are the diesels if Jintyman’s videos are to go by.

I suppose one of the issues with steam sound is that every steam loco had its own character. Diesels were a bit more similar.

Paul

I have some early US dcc sound diesel locos and I must say they are a turn on! But in British modelling I just can’t get my head around the diesels that replaced steam. Perhaps it’s my age and the fact that I lost all interest when steam started to disappear. Compare an express steam express passing Tamworth to a diesel; well there was no comparison.

http://warwickshirerailways.com/misc/ph5.htm

Paul

No Kadees in 7mm for me mate, they use them up at our Club, mainly for the Passenger Stock to couple under Corridor to Locos.

 

It will be interesting to see how you get on with them mate.

Andy

I have never used Kadees in 7mm scale, but years ago in my HO era I fiddled with all the many Kadee variations and still have dozens of them lying around and attached to various American HO locos and stock. Of course they look the part with American models.

I am using MagClic couplers between coaches because they don’t show too much and they are in rakes. To uncouple coaches your hand of god has to simply pull them apart with a bit of force. This might work as well as Kadees but in the case of the coal wagon, if it ends up inside the engine shed how can you pull it off the loco which will not have a MagClic!

Let’s see if Coachmann has a point of view.

Paul

Good to see 7mm, what a pun! Will you be using Kadees? I am beginning to think it might be a good idea for Penmaenpool, particularly for shunting wagons some distance away from the layout edge. In my case the coal wagon for the coal stage and ash wagon would both be beyond my eyesight and reach.

Paul

I think I have resolved the piano wire problem!  The solution was simple, drive to Porthmadog and visit Ian Jones at the piano store next to Tescos!  Turns out Ian is a life long Borth resident and we know several of the same people in the village from the late 1950s onward.

Ian was quite happy to sell me the wire without piano attached!

Paul

I have moved on from simplicity Paul. If Carrog told me anything, it is operationally boring. Imagine standing on Carrog station in 1960 and seeing nothing for ages. I would have been on the next train out of there and back to Croes Newydd quick style. My taste for curved station and trains leaning on the camber as they sped through probably stems from my childhood days at Greenfield (Standedge line).

Larry

I fully understand.  It may be that, after I have finished Penmaenpool (to my satisfaction) I may rip it up and do Gobowen myself, though again there would have to be curves where there aren't any.  My reason is much the same as yours, I have locos that would have been seen (if only occasionally) on the Chester-Shrewsbury main line, including the Jubilee but also unmade kits for Castle and Patriot, both favourites of mine.  Add in my existing 89A and 84J locos and Gobowen would be a good fit.  Given the L Girder construction, it would plausible to have a scenic run all the way around except in the doorway with tracks running down from there to long storage loops under the station.

Paul

My vote, not that there is one, would be for Gobowen, simpler than Ruabon but just as much traffic in that you would have Oswestry Works just two miles away and lots of interesting visitors, including a 15xx from 81A! My first cop at Gobowen was an LM loco, probably a Black 5, on an express to Paddington which no doubt was changed out at Wolverhampton Low Level. This would have been around 1957. As I only had the Western Region Ian Allan I was a bit confused!

Paul

Ps apologies if I have mentioned this before.

Now within an hour’s drive of Penmaenpool and it’ started raining! This morning the sun was shining and I was towel holder while my better half swam in the bay at Borth y Gest - it was high tide! The rest of the family just texted that they are back at Rhyddu after a successful climb up Snowdon so another achievement has been logged on the family atchives.

As to railway modelling, I hope to visit Penmaenpool before long and hopefully sort out the balance between buildings, etc. then there is Guildex at Telford to consider. It does look like I will be there on the Saturday but not the Sunday.

I have also received the NCE 5 amp booster. It’s smaller and lighter than I thought it would be. In the box was the second item ordered, the USB accessory that should mean that I will be able to control the trains using my iPad Mini. More technology to understand and assimilate.

Talking of which, my new car has some interesting technical gadgets, including automatic headlamp dimming and nudging the steering wheel if you begin to stray off the autoroute lane. This even worked in the Cotswolds, but only where the roads had discernible white lines, but as they haven’t been repainted in years that technology isn’t quite perfect. I also noted that after about 2 hours driving the Sat Nav suggested it might be time to stop for a rest! I am not entirely convinced that these gadgets are good but it’s the future and fortunately they can be turned off.

Paul

Not silly at all, Andy, a great time to drive on the M6 through Brum!

Paul

Thank you Paul.

My reasoning behind the above is that having built some pointwork already and with a possible move next year I needed a minimum-ish small space layout but utilising what I had got.

I'm sure others may come up with different thoughts and ideas but the main consideration was not knowing where I will be and house size. I think the two 1.5 x 600mm boards plus a small fiddly diddly yard would be ok so that's where I am currently.

I am still looking to purchase the 43xx as you have done, and I'm certain that I will, it will be of real interest to see how you get on with the build and hope you'll post your findings here.

My locos are of the smaller size, 2 Panniers and a Dean Goods ( Warren Shepards kit ) with the smaller tender so as to fit better on this layout. All this pre-planning can be both a blessing and a pain !

Cheers

Grahame

Grahame

My Legge Lane layout was a stop gap 2.4m x 0.6m layout that I could live with in a small apartment. Lots of learning experiences I am now putting to good use, though I still value others’ advice and experience - and always will!

Ironically, it looks as though I won’t be using the turntable from Legge Lane.

I am hoping to get all the add ons for both the Mogul and the Dukedog kits and they will be kit building priorities this coming winter. I will probably chronicle the builds on this thread and not my workbench topic.

Paul

Although my very small proposed layout is still at the planning stage I've laid out some track and a few buildings etc to help make up my mind.

It's certainly given me more ideas and is probably the third / fourth/ fifth I've gone through but generally getting settled now.

Due to space restrictions I decided to have a "generic" as opposed to real location ( bah! ) but at least I'll be able to play with my stock.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

There may well be some front and rear scenic "add on" modules to get a better depth of field eventually.

Apologies for posting on your thread but it's merely to show that having a play with buildings or even mock up card can help greatly I feel.

Grahame

Post away, Grahame, you are most welcome!

Well, one last thought before I leave.  I needed to see the "big picture" so cut a long piece of ply which will probably now be the "module" that holds the points, and would also be the base for several buildings (mainly station house and hotel but other huts as well).

I have temporarily laid out the prototype track layout either side of the toll bridge level crossing and with the platform loop extending round the corner with enough space to allow two 4 coach trains to pass, the compression is not too bad at all!

Several photos to demonstrate my latest thoughts.  The first is a view looking southeast from above the estuary:

Next, looking southwest from above the platform area:

Details showing the level crossing (plywood piece) and the signal box and toll house, both of which are on stilts on the bank to the estuary, as well as a line of small huts in the goods yard.  The small goods shed will be off to the east, beyond the catch point.

Last, the view along the embankment from the signal box area, showing the station building, then the hotel and off in the distance another piece of white paper represents the engine shed area.

I am hoping this will work well and will not be too cluttered.  Here are some reference photos to support the above:

View from the toll bridge (only part of which will be modelled)

View of the track bed from the hotel (note it is at an angle from the embankment, no doubt because it pre-dated the railway)

The hotel (the glassed in area nearest the camera is new and will not be modelled)

The station building on the right, the toll house on the left (the station house has been extended by the hotel owners to provide a larger annexe)

A similar view but from further away, showing the hotel and the faux-signal

Paul

Thank you both for your input. Aesthetically I think I should follow the prototype track layout because:

1. The offset platforms will look right

2. The signal box was located on the platform

3. There should be less pointwork at the road crossing

4. In the prototype the western point is actually in front of the station building, so there should still be room for the hotel and embankment before the shed turnout

And finally

5. I think it is important from an operational point of view to replicate the signal box lever positions on the control panel.

But I am not going to make a decision just yet. I will be visiting Penmaenpool again very soon and this may help to confirm the best way forward.

Any further comments would be most welcome!

Paul

OK, while I cook dinner I am uploading and editing a photo showing the alternatives.  Prototype at top, my version below.

The prototype has the western point controlling the loop.  A second point before the DOWN platform gives access to the yard.  This point is protected by the catch point, located further east.  The level crossing passes between the two points, shown by the steel ruler.  The green pencil shows the location of the signal box.

This actually gives a potentially longer passing loop as the loop is already established at the signal box.  But this is at the expense of the heavily compressed single line section between the toll bridge and the engine shed turnout in which the station building and the hotel must be represented.

My version simply compresses the pointwork such that the yard siding is switched from the western point and the loop doesn't begin until the second point.  The pencil shows where I might place the signal box.  Again the steel rule represents the level crossing.

As the platforms are now on a 6ft radius curve the prototype is already moot.

Any ideas, opinions, etc.?

Paul

Actually, the prototype was different but compression had forced me to rearrange the points. I don’t like this but I have to fit in the key buildings, etc. along the back wall of the room. Perhaps I will leave it for now and come back fresh with a better idea in a month’s time.

But still satisfying to have started on the scenic level.

Paul

The heatwave continues so I have spent much of the day in the railway room - with the air-conditioning on.  At first I did a few small things, but that large sheet of plywood where the station will be had me thinking.  The scissor crossing is a module, so the two points and a catch point at the western end of the loop would also make a good drop in module, as will the two points leading to the shed roads, but that will be another time.

First I cut and trimmed the pointwork and used some butadone to help to keep the track together at just a few sleepers where they touch.  This created more stability than I thought possible.  The fishplates are in place and the track looks like this:

Next I placed the pointwork roughly where it will be located (within 5 cm accuracy):

The level crossing leading to the toll bridge is actually where the western point is located, so the station house would be just to the right of the photo.

The catch point protects the single siding to the yard.

The second point is where the station platforms begin.  They are offset, the UP platform (on the left) being to the west, the DOWN platform to the east.  In reality the loop curved slightly to the right towards Dolgelley but space constraints force the platforms and loop to bend to the left.  The yard siding will also bend to the left, adjacent to the DOWN platform fence.

I have now cut the base for the pointwork and drilled the necessary holes.  I may go back down this evening and trim some cork sheet but this will also mean referencing the various photos and maps so I may only mark it out.

A satisfying day after all!

Paul

5399 - an excellent choice if I might say so sir!   If I ever build one 5399 in post 1956 condition would be my choice as I remember that loco and so 'smart-Alecs' could tell me that I'd got it wrong.  As I posted in the Dapol Mogul thread 5399 was an odd man out in the class. It was, of course, built with the new style motion plate and inside steampipes and ran so through 1956 but It came out of Swindon early in 1957 with outside steampipe cylinders, an old type motion plate and long driver's side splasher!  AFAIK no other Moguls swapped motion plates (even if it is possible to do so) and my supposition is that Swindon did one of its 'identity changes' and that the loco outshopped with 5399's plates was reassembled on the frames of 5307 or 5317 which were being scrapped at the same time.The before and after pics on p50 of David Andrews' book show the changes. To add a further variation 5399 buffers were changed from the taper type to the parallel pattern a couple of years later. There is a good photo of 5399 at Barmouth (13/6/57) in 'From the Footplate Cambrian Coast Express' p101 which suggests it has a flush rivetted tender, painted black or unlined green with the large cycling lion crest. I bought a photo of 5399 at Dolgelley in 1962 and not long before withdrawal (AHB065) from Railphotoprints which may suggest that it was re-painted lined green but with the small size old crest by then.

From a modelling point of view you'd have to decide if your model is to be pre or post 5399's Feb 1957 rebuild.  If the latter then I suggest following the instructions for locos 4321-5384 with the large radius motion plate, long splasher etc but with outside steam pipes. If post 1959 then change the taper buffers to parallel type.

I've attached a scan of the page in the CCE book but if anyone objects, for copyright reasons, I'll delete it.

Hope this helps.

Ray.

Wow, wow, wow!

Thank you Ray!  I am thrilled to receive so much information.  It will be post 1956, so now I need to assimilate all this information while away from the railway room.  I forgot to look at David Andrews' book, blame it on la canicule which shows no signs of abating until after I leave France.

Paul

Edit, the photos are on page 52!  By the way I spoke with David Andrews last week and he said he really enjoyed writing the book and would have done others but the kit business took off.  The rest is history.

I'm sure you've already thought of it but it would be worth double-checking photos of your chosen mogul as I seem to remember some of their tenders were flush rivetted.  Looking forward to seeing the build.

cheers,

Ray.

Well, I have done some research and all the photos I have of 5399 really don't help much - they are in publications and not at a high enough resolution.  One colour photo of a class mate at Snow Hill shows flush riveting with prominent rivets on the loco's cab side, so I went back through my published photos and there is a good chance that 5399's tender had flush riveting as the cabside rivets are visible (just) whereas the tender has no evidence of them.  Why 5399?  Because I have ordered Severn Mill plates already!

As noted above, though, if additional photos of 5399 are found and there are rivets in evidence, then the decals could be used.

Thanks, Ray!

Paul

How about Rhosllanerchugog Road (OR Junction) for a name!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhosllanerchrugog

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rhosllanerchrugog/@53.0113462,-3.0530418,14.83z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487ac7f998f75891:0xa0d8b265e0a7900!8m2!3d53.013057!4d-3.057852

 

It is about half way between Ruabon and Wrexham (Wrecsam)....and there was a network of branch lines in the area. including one to Rhosllenerchugog itself!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruabon_Brook_Tramway

My trainspotting mate was a Wrexham lad but when together we always headed for Crewe! We cycled there one morning to tour the Works with a permit and also got chased out of Crewe North by the BTP. 46235 was on shed, my best cop of the day. Given the location of Croes Newydd we never tried to gain entry - in fact Stafford Road was much easier and had big engines!

I know you don’t like building buildings, Larry, but Gobowen Station, still standing, is a fine Italianate structure. There was a small yard there but Gobowen was really just a junction for the connection to Oswestry. On the other hand, all sorts of “exotic” locos did end up in Oswestry Works, including an Old Oak Common 15xx and several 9Fs. So light engine workings could be envisaged?

Paul

On the Michael Clemens Railway website there is a GWR route availability map (ex-Worcester shed) that can be viewed in jpeg format. It looks to have been kept updated with the last date being April 1957.

From my interpretation of the key it looks like the 60xx King Class were authorised as far north as Saltney Junction outside Chester.

The webpage: http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=634

Direct link to map: http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/download.ashx?dok=302

Interesting that the authorisation stopped short of Chester which may explain why Kings were not seen north of Shrewsbury (“very often, if at all”). My memory says that Kings were sometimes used when the Cambrian Coast Express actually went into Shewsbury. In later years the Kings were taken off at Wolverhampton when the CCE used the wye, avoiding Shrewsbury station. This is all from memory, mind and I stand to be corrected.

Paul

Larry

My trainspotting days started in 1956/7 and my first cop was at Gobowen when the southbound train steamed in with a 5 digit number beginning with 4. I think it was a Black 5. I was going to Birmingham Snow Hill so quite why the train was being pulled by a LMR loco was strange. I only had a Western Region Ian Allen at the time.

As far as I am aware the only Western class not allowed north of Shrewsbury was the King 60xx.

Paul

37 degrees - great!

50 degrees, well you’d have worse things to worry about!

Watch this space, (the final frontier?)

Best

Simon

Simon, when I was away for two weeks in early July the maximum temperature recorded in our roof top verrière was 46°C. In the shade but the greenhouse effect simply raised the temperature. I think the same temperatures could easily be reached in an unshaded garden railway. How might this effect batteries? I really don’t know, perhaps Elon Musk could tell us.

And then there is track expansion to think about but that’s another story.

I will be following your travels with interest! Paul

There would appear to quite a few of us who have lived along the diffuse boundary between the Western and Midland regions. My father trained for the Great War at Park Hall near Oswestry and that event seemed to have set his mind on the area and so we often traveled on the Paddington Birkenhead line. After he died I was taken in hand by his business partner who lived in the Portmadoc area, so the association continued, extended onto the Cambrian. Along came my stepfather who for some time worked for Doulton ceramics at Tamworth. These included my trainspotting years so I got to stand alongside the Trent Valley Line when Princess Coronations were still rampant, then take the train back to New Street, walk to Moor Street and switch to the North Warwickshire Line. Those were great LNWR, MR and GWR spotting days!

I have to admit that the other regions don’t figure in my plans and never have.

Paul

I'm sure you've already thought of it but it would be worth double-checking photos of your chosen mogul as I seem to remember some of their tenders were flush rivetted.  Looking forward to seeing the build.

cheers,

Ray.

Thanks, Paul

This is like Star Trek all over again! Lost in wherever I am. ET, ou est vous? Un tren et un pil? Je ne sais pas. Je suis perdu!

But seriously, this looks like what I could have done had I found some land and built a Languedoc garden railway, though whether the batteries would be happy with today’s 37°C temperature. . . . .

Phew,

Paul