model-trains

Then this has to be right... I am thinking, I am hoping. Return wire to track DCC Bus instead of Device. The only connection between DR4088LN and DR5088RC being the the one linking LocoNet

Hi Iain Your reply answers a problem I have been trying to get my head round. I had wired the DR5088RC as the DR4088LN as previously discussed. But at the same time I had removed some of the DR4088 feedbacks from board-2, to a DR4088 on board-3, to better balance the wiring and devices between the 3 boards. Having done so I found I had a 'short', thinking I had wired the DR5088 correctly as the DR4088 (linking the middle connections) it was the last place I expected the short to be, so I vacuumed the track on the layout to ensure there was no foreign bodies causing the short, then stripped out all the wiring from the 8 feedbacks I had changed in December. Still there was a short so I then disconnected all devices on the control board on board-3, the short cleared. Knowing the short had to be on the Board-3 devices and not knowing why was the reason I asked the question above in more detail, finally I asked the second question to double checked the wiring or use of the terminal for Global feedback. I have this morning reconnected all the feedback wires to the DR5088RC and the power from the bus to the bottom terminals, good news, I have power to the device. So I then tested the device using a signal, touching the input wire at the bottom then to each of the 16 feedbacks with the other wire the and the signal lights for all feedbacks, so I am getting power through the DR5088RC. Good news I have not blown it. I am now getting things together, but I have one more question please, it is again regarding the middle terminals of the DR5088RC. I have amended the image wiring, removing the global link for the extra feedback. My question is, is the wiring in the diagram below correct, or should the DR54088LN and DR5088RC be totally separate of each other? Thanks for your help, the details in the manual for the DR5088RC seem to me to be a bit misleading. Paul

At present I have DR4088LN - 1-16 DR4088LN - 17-32 DR4088LN - 33-48 I am wanting to get started on this but slowly does it as I have had another stroke, fortunately a less violent one but it did affect my eyes and face again, but not as bad as the three previous ones DR5088RC - 49-64 (not 65-80 as stated in the image above) Tis includes 3 feedbacks for the Speed Measurement track I set up on it's own for speed testing Then I will add DR4088LN - 65-80 DR4088LN - 81-96 (using only a few) The DR4088LN has a link joining 1-8 with 9-16 in the same block. Do I link the middle two connections of the DR5088RC with the loop just the same as the DR4088? I agree with missing out the Global Feedback, and keeping to the x16 multiplier, I only included that in the image so as to consider all options. I have also kept all DR5088RC blocks side by side on board 3 to keep it as simple as possible. Paul

After viewing the manual items 6.1 and 6.2 it seems confusing. So is the above correct? I may not use feedback 73 but is that correct also? On the DR4088 a loop is added to join 1-8 and 9-16 feedbacks, this is not shown as needed on the DR5088? Paul

Hi guys, hope you had a nice Christmas. I seek your advice regarding the following. I have a DR5000 control centre, numerous DR4088LN's and want to include the DR5088RC as the 5th module from the controlcentral. The DR5088RC manual shows examples of linking 2 DR5088RC's and one for extending the DR5088RC with DR4088's. Having wired part of my layout with DR4088LN's 1-16, 17-32, 33-48, 49-64, the DR5088RC will take up feedbacks 65-81. The feedbacks will be wired to the DR5088RC which will be a series of station and hidden sidings blocks, each with two feedbacks, all running parallel to each other on board 3 of 4. The diagrams for the items mentioned above do not match what I am trying to achieve so I include an image of what I think, I hope is right or almost right. I would be grateful for any advice and thank you all in advance. Paul

That was where I ended last night Mike, but I wanted to see what you guys suggested overnight. After months of wire tracking, convinced it had wiring part incorrectly, then taking time off to do speed measurement and controlled stopping, I came back to wire checking again, literally not getting anywhere. Sometimes I find it worth leaving an issue and coming back to it later, but in this case that didn't work either. Issues as they have unfolded... I made mistake number one, due to not having any real track to test on, I used one loco only, the rest were still in their boxes, had I used more than one at that time I would have realised the issue was not with every loco, easy said afterwards but when a problem persists it is easy to zoom down into it and be blinkered of the logic of trying another item (For me anyway) Doing the speed measurement and controlled stopping highlighted this issue, so one by one, I was then able to work out which loco caused the issue, directly or indirectly, and which didn't. So with the help from you guys, we have been squeezing out possibilities. After changing DR5013-101 and 102 and seeing the issue followed the DR5013-102 it seemed it had to be this module. This morning after reading all the replies, it made sense, as you suggest, to remove DR5013-102 and replace it with one I have for the other end, so I used DR5013-104. I then ran all 4 locos on the speed measurement track, this and other parts of the track outside the reverse loop blocks had previously shown the interference flashing in the reverse loop, the locos which had previously shown the issue were Royal Signals P6, Class 37 and Class 66040 and 66111. Brilliant this time there were no issues at all. I haven't tried the reverse loop as board-1&2 are upright at present ready for point motors, but I have no concerns here as they worked previously. I have 17-18 Cobalt slow action point motors to setup and add to these boards, once this is done I can test all track, blocks and reverse loops fully, then join them and move forwards. 2021 should at last see some positive progress, I look forward to this and 'Playing Trains'. Paul

UPDATE All 4 DR5013 have been removed, each one has been factory default set, then upgrade firmware again to get a clean start. Taking the forth module the data is now... <?xml version="1.0"?> -<DR5013 xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"> -<LocoNet> <Purge_Time>0</Purge_Time> <FastClock_Rate>0</FastClock_Rate> <FRED_Timing>false</FRED_Timing> <Baudrate_Tuning>110</Baudrate_Tuning> <Comparator_Tuning>1.8046875</Comparator_Tuning> <LN_ReportAfterPowerOn>false</LN_ReportAfterPowerOn> <SenseReport>1</SenseReport> <RailComReport>2</RailComReport> </LocoNet> -<DCC> <FirstTurnoutModule>1</FirstTurnoutModule> </DCC> -<RailCom> <ModuleNumber>4</ModuleNumber> <ReportDelay>500</ReportDelay> <ReportAfterPowerOn>true</ReportAfterPowerOn> <Report7D>false</Report7D> <ReportRX8>false</ReportRX8> <ReportSpeed>false</ReportSpeed> <SpeedDelta>3</SpeedDelta> <ReportQoS>false</ReportQoS> <QoSDelta>5</QoSDelta> <QoSSuppress>10</QoSSuppress> <ReportContainer>false</ReportContainer> <LogDetection>false</LogDetection> <UseChannel2>true</UseChannel2> <DetectCount>10</DetectCount> <PolarityCount>2</PolarityCount> <PolarityDelay>150</PolarityDelay> <MuxTime>33</MuxTime> -<Global> <FeedBackAddress>104</FeedBackAddress> <FeedBackEnabled>true</FeedBackEnabled> <FeedBackTimeout>500</FeedBackTimeout> <BlockAddress>104</BlockAddress> <BlockEnabled>true</BlockEnabled> <DirectionInvert>false</DirectionInvert> </Global> </RailCom> -<ReverseLoop> <StartUpDelay>450</StartUpDelay> <OffDelay>150</OffDelay> <TurnoutMode>0</TurnoutMode> <TurnoutState>1</TurnoutState> <TurnoutAddress>0</TurnoutAddress> <s0Address>0</s0Address> <s1Address>0</s1Address> <s2Address>0</s2Address> <s3Address>0</s3Address> <TrackAddress>104</TrackAddress> <ShortDelay>75</ShortDelay> <ShortReport>0</ShortReport> <RetryDelay>500</RetryDelay> <AutoRetry>true</AutoRetry> </ReverseLoop> <Version>1.1.0</Version> </DR5013> Do I leave FirstTurnOutModule 1 for all 4 modules? -<DCC> <FirstTurnoutModule>1</FirstTurnoutModule> </DCC> -<RailCom> <ModuleNumber>4</ModuleNumber> Modules 1 and 2 have been fitted back to the layout, module #1, feedback #101, module #2, feedback #2 I have done this so as to try another angle to the issue checking, I have added them back the opposite way. #102 was connected to the outer track and is now connected to the inner track, and visa versa. My theory here is, if there was a wiring issue, I would expect the outer track still to show an error, that is if the firmware and changes to the module do not solve the issue. Having now tested it I can only confirm that the error is still evident, but it is now the inner track that has the frequency flashing issue??? I am now thinking that maybe the best thing to try next, is to change the #102 DR5013 and add in its place #103 or #104 module which I have for the other end of the layout, then test for the fault again. Maybe it is module 2 #102 that is causing the issue, I welcome all comments. I am finished for tonight so will check here tomorrow before doing anything else. Thanks to all for your help. Paul

Hi @melberby, The reverse loops are themselves working, the issue was interference, causing flashing when a loco is else where on the layout.

No, I was making the changes in the module to match your settings. That makes more sense! Thanks

I have updated the firmware to 1.1.0 I have changed the settings in the module that gave issues, (#2 -102) to your settings. The one I cannot find, I am not sure which setting it is in the module options. In <LocoNet> You - <SenseReport>1</SenseReport> Me - <SenseReport>0</SenseReport>

That makes sense then, the date I exported the data following the upgrade and set up was 12 August 2019. Paul

What is the latest firmware version? Regarding your second comment, this is a good check. I disconnected the outer loop track connection of the reverse loop with the issue, I them ran all three locos, one at a time, that had interference flashing when running, there were no issues, so it is back to item A.

Bottom of the exported data is the version number, I take this to be the firmware version number? </ReverseLoop> <Version>1.0.0</Version>

I recall you saying the numbering didn't matter, so that part is fine. I DID upgrade the firmware for all 4 DR5013's, before setting the data and exporting the files. I can remove them and upgrade firmware on all 4 again if you think it is worth a try. Although I have 4 DR5013's only 2 are added to the system, the inner loop works without issues, it is only the outer loop that is giving issues. I have just checked the exported data for DR5013-1 and 2, the data is identical in each, apart from the device number and feedback number. This is what makes this seem so strange, the inner loop works without an issue.

I have false, false, false for the first 3 lines, should my last one be 'true'? Detect count, I have 15, should I change to 10 Polarity delay, I have 250, should this be 150 I guess the best question is, should I change everything except the module number and the feedback number to your settings?

Iain I have <RailCom> <ModuleNumber>6</ModuleNumber> <ReportDelay>500</ReportDelay> you have 500, I have 1000 Should this be set to 500?

I have programmed the DR5013's as follows Module # - 1,2,3 and 4 Feedback address # - 101, 102, 103 and 104 Just looking at this section of your code Iain, brings me to ask a question. <DCC> <FirstTurnoutModule>1</FirstTurnoutModule> </DCC> <RailCom> <ModuleNumber>6</ModuleNumber> My Digikeijs modules are linked from the DR5000 in the following order... DR4088LN DR4088LN DR5013-1 DR5013-2 DR5088RC DR4088LN DR5013-3 DR5013-4 Should DR5013's on the first control board be #3 and 4, not 1 or 2, or does it not matter? Just looking for possibilities that could be causing my issue. Paul

5.2 DR5013 short circuit detection and LocoNet® connection® That is correct Mike. The simplest method as it is all new to me. Paul

I include here the wiring within the Reverse loop to the DCC Bus and to the DR5015 module. I have 5 connections to the track within the Reverse Loop Block, the interference issue was the same when just one pair of wires were used. The lines are a little thick but I am sure you will follow, the 5 are connected to cable connector then to the DR5013. Please ignore the blue track in the lower block, I have modified the original from the manual for easiness. I also add the details Exported from 1 DR5013, which was programmed prior to adding to the layout. <?xml version="1.0"?> -<DR5013 xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"> -<LocoNet> <Purge_Time>0</Purge_Time> <FastClock_Rate>0</FastClock_Rate> <FRED_Timing>false</FRED_Timing> <Baudrate_Tuning>110</Baudrate_Tuning> <Comparator_Tuning>1.8046875</Comparator_Tuning> <LN_ReportAfterPowerOn>false</LN_ReportAfterPowerOn> <SenseReport>0</SenseReport> <RailComReport>2</RailComReport> </LocoNet> -<DCC> <FirstTurnoutModule>1</FirstTurnoutModule> </DCC> -<RailCom> <ModuleNumber>1</ModuleNumber> <ReportDelay>1000</ReportDelay> <ReportAfterPowerOn>true</ReportAfterPowerOn> <Report7D>false</Report7D> <ReportRX8>false</ReportRX8> <ReportSpeed>false</ReportSpeed> <SpeedDelta>3</SpeedDelta> <ReportQoS>false</ReportQoS> <QoSDelta>5</QoSDelta> <QoSSuppress>10</QoSSuppress> <ReportContainer>false</ReportContainer> <LogDetection>false</LogDetection> <UseChannel2>false</UseChannel2> <DetectCount>15</DetectCount> <PolarityCount>2</PolarityCount> <PolarityDelay>250</PolarityDelay> <MuxTime>33</MuxTime> -<Global> <FeedBackAddress>101</FeedBackAddress> <FeedBackEnabled>true</FeedBackEnabled> <FeedBackTimeout>500</FeedBackTimeout> <BlockAddress>101</BlockAddress> <BlockEnabled>true</BlockEnabled> <DirectionInvert>false</DirectionInvert> </Global> </RailCom> -<ReverseLoop> <StartUpDelay>450</StartUpDelay> <OffDelay>150</OffDelay> <TurnoutMode>0</TurnoutMode> <TurnoutState>1</TurnoutState> <TurnoutAddress>0</TurnoutAddress> <s0Address>0</s0Address> <s1Address>0</s1Address> <s2Address>0</s2Address> <s3Address>0</s3Address> <TrackAddress>101</TrackAddress> <ShortDelay>75</ShortDelay> <ShortReport>3</ShortReport> <RetryDelay>1000</RetryDelay> <AutoRetry>false</AutoRetry> </ReverseLoop> <Version>1.0.0</Version> </DR5013> Paul

I have separated all reverse loop wires that were taped together with feedback wires, then separated all reverse loop wires that were close to each other. The result being, The Royal Signals does not give an error, but the other 3 locos still do give the error, flashing interference. It seems after all the time spend looking for the issue, that adding the 470 ohm resister, you suggested, to the wire leading to the DR5013 is the easiest option. Note it is not the DR4088LN that is showing the interference flashing, but 1 of the 2 DR5013's on this end of the layout (there will be two at the other end when I get there). If what you suggest is the same for the DR4088LN and the DR5013, then I feel it may be best to add a 470 ohm resister to the wire going to each device. Would you agree Iain? Now the next bit, I have looked on ebay for a 470 ohm resisters, there are many with different wattages? Which would you suggest best please? Many thanks to you and all on here for your helps. Paul

It seems clearer now that good housekeeping, tidy wiring, is not the best option, with electrics. Better to find out now on board 1 & 2 than get all 4 boards done with two Reverse Loops at each end than have these issues. Thanks again

Hi Iain, That went straight over my head, could you explain more please. I understand feedbacks and flashing, and pleased to say the last sentence which is making sense. Tomorrow I will start by removing the reverse loop wires from the feedback ones and redirect them with each group of wires going a different direction. This will however still leave around 16 feedback wires going from the control board and one DR4088LN to the the main circles and sidings on board-1, and another 16 approximately going the other way from the second DR4088LN to feedbacks on board 2. As the issue appears to be just the flashing of the reverse loop block, when a loco is on a track outside the reverse loop section, either on board-1, board-2 or the speed measuring length of track, hopefully that could solve the issue. But could the issue happen with feedbacks where a group of feedback wires are taped together? Paul

Hi @peach james That is not an area I have got to yet. I am hoping by the end of the year to have 2 boards of 4 connected so I can play a little and set up and learn more. Where will I find the timing you mention? Thanks for your response Paul

Thanks for your response Mike I will check that in detail and reply, but first I think maybe separate the reverse loop wires from running in parallel to the other group of feedback wires. I will reply to confirm the outcome of this first. Thanks again. Paul

Interesting reply @melmerby, thank you. I think my best option is disconnect the reverse loop wires and redirect separately to the feedback wires.