gordon1970

Cheers; I would imagine 'TRFB' or similar would be needed for a twin buffet rake since (from what pics seem to be online) one buffet was standard and the other first, I suppose at a push you could get a couple of '1's and a yellow stripe added to the standard buffet

Just read it and would seem to agree Out of interest, if Bill Watson is correct, he's a shot of a 7 coach set in the mid-late 80s on a service from Kings X. What I will say is that I've purchased the Hornby R3138 (which I will get around to renumbering) Power cars - the reason being, the upcoming East coast version appears to have black inside the bodyside "Intercity 125" on the power cars which I don't remember seeing, and if I went for that I'd want it changed. Easier to renumber the WR ones And I've plumped for a 7 coach rake of the lit mk3s. As far as I'm concerned they do the job admirably; I would say you could legitimately run a 7-9 coach set. I'm not clued up on the intricacies of the different Buffets, but if Hornby did a "Buffet bar 125" I might plump for that rather than another TF!

With the shot I saw back in 1980/1, no idea; I do know two catering vehicles weren't that uncommon on even 8 coach rakes - if you look around Bill Watson's Smugmug you will see plenty examples of 8 coach rakes with two catering vehicles; as I say the one shot in the 1980s monochrome gallery there shows a 9 coach set which appears to have two catering vehicles and 5 standard coaches. (and two firsts presumably at the other end). As to actually identifying the sets, well I never counted coaches when I saw sets at the time, (mostly as they passed at the ton or more ), and the only real way to check these things was pics in the magazines or books. I wouldn't (at the time) have known an HST (all in Blue and Grey) passing was from Bristol or the West Country or London TBH. FWIW, I think (as others say) at times sets did get coaches added or taken off especially in the early 80s when they were still coming into service, unfortunately on the occasions I did get up close in the Waverley I was more absorbed in the sound as they pulled away than counting the coaches. I do remember, however, "Buffet-Bar 125" on some trains as well as the "Restaurant-Buffet 125" (Managed to get links working!) 9 coach set http://ironroad.smugmug.com/BR-in-the-1980s-Monochrome/i-F5qCLD3/A 7 Coach set http://ironroad.smugmug.com/BR-in-the-1980s-Colour/i-ThZhHVV/A 8 coaches with twin buffets http://ironroad.smugmug.com/BR-in-the-1980s-Colour/i-3ZPdzgX/A 8 coaches with 1 buffet http://ironroad.smugmug.com/BR-in-the-1980s-Colour/i-m6KzXPm/A

At the almost certain risk of getting shot down in flames here, regarding formation lengths on the HSTs, strictly speaking, (depending on your location on the ECML) any rake from 7-9 would be accurate if you think of the likes of, say Services to the West country which were 7 coaches - not an East Coast set, but a 7 coach formation on the ECML Now - as for rakes of 9 coaches. I clearly remember reading one of my Grandfathers' Railway mags back in about 1980/1/2 which had a photo by (I am sure) Brian Morrison showing an HST somewhere in Fife or thereabouts either going to or from Aberdeen. This had a 9 coach set (which I counted) - I can't be more specific than to say 1980-81 was the time frame I saw this pic (which was black and white, the mag might have been older than that). So an odd 9 coach set on the ECML? Well, unless I am totally wrong, this set had a "255 XXX" set number on the nose (the shot was taken, presumably from a bridge, angle showed number on nose, but was a fairly head on shot) Why do I remember this? Well, when I saw the number I thought "Hold on East coast 125s are 254 numbers." I found another few shots in other magazines and first was a western set (253) and I noticed that had 7 coaches - then and East coast set (254) which I noted had 8 coaches - it was THEN I counted the coaches on the shot in question and there were 9 - I personally assumed "So, 253=7 coaches, 254=8 and 255=9 coaches" At the time I was about 10 years of age and apart from being fascinated by 125s, formations and numbers of coaches were something I knew nothing about and the 253/254 system meant nothing to me, except that every set I saw on the ECML was 254. Now, I have never found proof of this since, and apparently 255 was later (or 'only') allocated to the shorter Virgin HSTs but not carried, but as I say, I can still remember this photo to this day - either I am totally wrong.... I can't seem to post Links to the group, but if anyone looks for "Weirs Way Berwick" on YT, skip to 22m 20s and theres a 7 coach HST heading north over the Tweed. Similarly (and to confuse things) Bill Watsons' "Iron Road" Smugmug - '1980s monochrome' shows a diverted 9 coach HST set (254 on the nose) in 1980 in the Pelaw area I think