josekimber

Thanks for that, Paul. Do you know if it is possible to assign this to a function button, and if so how I would do it? There are some functions I will probably never use that could be used for this if it is possible to do it. Regards Jose

Please can anyone help to find out how to adjust the volume of the factory sound fitted Dapol Manor? It is not listed in any of the functions. I mainly run the loco on our large club layout and the sound is barely audible, while other sound fitted locos seem to work much better. The manual says it is a Zimo Sound decoder but does not specify which one or which sound files they are using. Thanks Jose

Yes, thanks, I will do that. I hope they take notice!

I think I've found the answer. I am using the "schematic" option for my layout. I think you must be using the "free" one. I created a new layout just to check, with the "free" option, and found that had the buttons to switch the gridlines on and off. Seems that does not apply to the "schematic", and having created the layout, it can't be changed. I can't think of a way round it as I could not draw the layout using the "free" option. (I'm useless at drawing and I did try it).

Well, that is very strange, because that is exactly the version I am using, yet I definitely do not have that "grid" option on mine, as you can (just about) see from the screenshot I posted of the layout. I did import the layout from my older iPad which is the one I use with the railway, but I don't think that had the grid options either. Any ideas as to why I can't see it? Same on the iPhone as well.

Hi Iain Are you using a different version of the app? That option does not appear on my version of the app (see picture). It does not show up very well in the photo because the top line is black and some of the symbols are greyed out, but the app does not look quite the same as yours. Are you using an iPad? Jose

Success! Or at, I hope so. All of the points are now working as they should. I am not sure what it was I did to resolve it, but first, Ian did a lot of mystical tests with a test meter, and then did some experiments which had no effect. At that point we decided we had spent enough time on it and it was time to give up on it. I then disconnected the point motor wires from the Digitrax decoder for point 13, which happens to be the furthest away from the programming switches and the Z21. I moved the point motor wires onto a spare connector on one of the ZTC accessory decoders, so it now becomes point 28. I then found, for some weird reason that point 25 was now causing point 12, the next one along, to operate. I then connected up the old ZTC511 controller, which has the advantage of being very simple to operate so long as you follow the correct keystrokes. Using the 511, I reprogrammed point 12, which then worked (without no 25), so I proceeded to reprogram nos 11 to 6. All worked! I then connected up the Viessmann Commander, and they all worked with that, and then finally the Z21, and they all worked with that too. It seems that for some reason, moving that point to the accessory decoder somehow untangled things. I don't know if it is the way that the Z21 programs the points somehow caused the decoders to receive confused signals. I know I did not follow the correct procedure for programming when I first did it. However it does now seem to be sorted. I thought you would like to know.

I want a mimic panel to use for a new layout I am building which will not have DCC operated points (there are only 6 of them). I managed to make a screenshot, but it is not very satisfactory as it has gridlines I can't get rid of.

Hi Iain I had not made the connection with the Iain of the 009 Society who sets up the Zoom meetings for the Lynton & Barnstaple Special Interest Group which I run. It's a small world! The weekend of 24th September is quite a busy one as it is also the Lynton & Barnstaple Autumn Gala which we always go to, but Compton Dundon was already in my diary and I was hoping to go as some of the SWOONS people are going to be there, including Richard Holder, Adrian Broadhead and Geoff Broadhurst. Hopefully I will catch up with you there. I hope to have made some progress before then, though. I am still trying to decide whether it is worth continuing with all the work of disconnecting all the decoders or just go for the accessory decoder which will enable me to tidy up some of the rats nest of wiring. It is very tempting to do that as it would save a lot of time because it would not involve a lot of soldering under the baseboard, I know that the DR4018 works and I know how to connect it up and program it. Jose

Thanks for that, Iain. Yes, I am the 009 Society Jose Kimber, but unfortunately I am far away in Tiverton, Devon. I have posed the question to Digitrax and they say that it is unlikely to be an issue with the decoders themselves, but suggest it could have something to do with the programming switches, so I think I will have to explore that further. We were going to disconnect one of the switches from the control panel and move it to the other end of the layout nearer to the decoders, to see if that makes any difference. If that point then works, I will know that it is the switches that are causing the problem. Either that or I just bite the bullet and get rid of the offending Digitrax decoders. That would cost about £90 for a DR4018 and the 2 wire to 3 wire adaptors I would need, but given the amount of time I have already spent trying to resolve this, it might be the easiest solution! Jose

Well. I have received the Power Distribution Board, disconnected the DR4088 and connected up the Power Distribution Board which seems to be working as intended, and all the track sections work. I then reprogrammed all the points with the Digitrax decoders. The upshot of that is that points 1-5 now all work reliably, but the remainder, 6-13 are all over the place. Depending on which of the points I program, it can operate several others all at once, and if anything the issue seems to be getting worse, the more I reprogram them, the more of the others seem to be operated at once. I have carried out a number of tests and written down the results. I started at the other end, for a change: Program decoder 13. This causes 13, 12, 11 and 10 to operate together. Program no 12 This causes 12, 11 and 10 to operate together. 13 still works on its own. Program no 11, this causes 11 and 10 to operate together, 13 and 12 still work on the their own. Program no 10, causes 10 and 11 to operate together, 13 and 12 still work, 11 does not work. Program no 9, causes all of 6-12 to operate together, 13 still works on its own. Program no 7 causes 7, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 to operate together. 13 now operates 12, 11 & 10 together and 9 now works on its own! What on earth is going on? I am completely baffled! Is it the decoders, or something in the wiring? The one thing I have proved is that it is not the z21. I get similar results with the Viessmann Commander (though it all worked with it before) and with my trusty old ZTC 511 which gets called in for duty when all else fails. Should I give up and replace the Digitrax decoders with an accessory decoder such as the DR4018 which I know works? All ideas/suggestions gratefully received! Thanks Dave for the suggestion about the other versions of DR4088. I did look at the possibility of buying the Loconet version, but given the issues with Railcomm and the Z21 I decided against it, as it is more cost for some functionality I am not sure I need at the moment, I decided it was better just to cut out the DR4088 altogether. Jose

Hi Iain That looks perfect, thanks very much, nice and simple so even I can probably manage it! I have ordered one. Hopefully that will solve the problem. Jose

One thing I found is that, unless you have switched off the automatic connection in the Wi-Fi settings, the Wi-Fi will keep defaulting back to the home Wi-Fi. I found this out when I checked the connections and found it kept connecting to the wrong router. I use a dedicated iPad so I now have it set up to default to the Z21. Do you have a dedicated router for the Z21? If so, as ITG says, if it says you have an internet connection you are not connected to the Z21 router.

Unfortunately I can’t see any easy way to connect all the wires together. I have discussed this with my husband and he could not think of a way to do it without a lot of soldering and added complexity. Also given that the wiring is a bit of a mess because I had to extend the wires to reach the DR4088. Although a lot more work, it would make a much neater job to solder them direct to the bus. Although it would mean that I could not reconnect the DR4088 later, I can’t see that I will want to. It was something of a failed experiment with occupancy detection which hasn’t really worked as I had hoped. If you can think of an easy way to do it with choc blocks, perhaps you could explain in more detail?

I have come to the conclusion that the issue is caused by the DR4088. Having thought about it further, everything was working before I introduced the Z21. The only change I made after acquiring the Z21 was to disconnect the DR4088, which being S88 is not compatible with the Z21. I am not at home at the moment but when I get back on Tuesday I will connect the Commander back up and connect the DR4088 back up as well. If the points all then work as they did before, that will point to the DR4088 as being the source of the problem. My husband who knows a lot more about electrics than I do, but is not familiar with the way DCC works, thinks this is the most likely cause. I will report back when I have done the test. If that is the cause, the only way I can solve it is to remove the DR4088 altogether and reconnect all the sections back to the bus, a rather horrible job, but the best way to reduce any interference. Jose

Yes, I do realise that I have to do them one by one, that is what I have been doing all along. it should not make any difference what addresses I give them, so long as they don't clash with the others that are already programmed. If I can't resolve the problem I will have to give up and replace the individual decoders with accessory ones. They make a messy lot of wiring anyway, but I wanted avoid the expense and work of replacing them. Jose

OK, I will look into doing connecting the wires using a chocolate block. The problem with the turnout addresses is, I have given them all separate addresses, programming them one at a time, but I don't know what addresses they actually have because you can't read back from them. I will do some more tests to check whether it is always the same ones that fire together, or whether it is a random thing. It seems to be rather random. I will reprogram them again, ensuring that I don't have more than one in programming mode (I'm pretty sure I didn't when doing it before, but I need to check everything). Jose

Thanks, Keith. So I assume then that that would not cause any interference with the turnout decoders?

No, Railcom is turned off, I learnt this from an earlier discussion. I was wondering whether to try programming the points with more spaced out addresses, as there are a lot more addresses available than I will ever need. eg something like 101, 111, 121 etc, and well away from any other previously used address. Otherwise it must have something to do with the way things are connected up. I do have a DR4088 S88 feedback module which is wired to the track but not connected to any controller, because I discovered (too late) that the Z21 does not support S88. Although the feedback worked with the Commander it was actually pretty useless, because I could not get it to set up an automatic shuttle train, and I decided it was a bit of a waste of time, so I was not too bothered that it doesn't work with the Z21. However changing the wiring back to remove the S88 is a big job, involving a lot of upside down soldering under the baseboard to solder all the wires back to the track bus. I don't want to have to go there unless I really have to. It was quite a big job connecting it all up in the first place, and something I rather regret having done now because it causes a lot of complications. I do know someone who uses the Commander in automatic mode so he managed to set it up, but I've given up on it. I only mention this in case it is relevant to the programming issue, I don't want to bother with the feedback, at least not at the moment. Jose

No, I picked this up from an earlier discussion and turned Railcom off. I don't need it anyway. I have a DR4088 S88 feedback module which is connected to the sections of track but this does not work with the Z21 so it is not connected to the controller and as it is S88 it does not work with Railcom anyway. It seems that the track power feeds through the module quite happily without it being connected to a controller. I had hoped to set up some automatic operation for a shuttle train, which is why I installed the DR4088, and which the Viessmann Commander is supposed to be able to do, but I could not get it to work, so I gave up on it. I haven't disconnected the DR 4088 from the track because it would involve a lot of changes and upside down soldering under the baseboard to change the wiring, a really difficult job to do. It was not an easy job connecting it up in the first place. I only mention it in case it could have something to do with the issues with the point programming. I have decided I don't need it at the moment and it sounds as if trying to work with Railcom would just set up another lot of problems, so I am not going there! I am wondering whether it is worth trying to program the points with a more spaced out set of addresses, as there are plenty available. For example, 101, 111, 121, 131 etc or something like that, to see if that works. If it doesn't, it is going to have to be something to do with the wiring. The only thing I have changed recently is the installation of DCC Concepts bus spike protectors, but I already had the programming problem then, and I hoped that installing those might help. It didn't, but I think they will be useful anyway. I don't want to add more complications but I thought it was important to explain as much of my setup as possible in case any of it is relevant to the issue, so please don't bother about the feedback module unless it is relevant in some way. Jose

Success! The good news is that I have carefully followed your instructions and successfully reset and reprogrammed the DR4018. One thing was that I was not using the correct procedure to program the points with the Z21 app. As a result, the decoders were not actually being programmed, I was just setting them up in the Z21 app. Another thing I did wrong was that I had set up a loco in the Z21 app with the number 9999, as I read somewhere that this needed to be done. However, there was an obscure note somewhere in the DR4018 manual that suggests that if there is a loco set up with this number, the programming would not work. So I deleted the loco and then it worked. However, having got the DR4018 turnouts working, I then found one of the points was triggering one of the DS51K1 points as well. Following your instructions for programming with the Z21, I decided to reprogram the DS51K1s again, using a whole new set of addresses, from 51-63. Having reprogrammed them I reconnected the DR4018 and tried the points again, and this time they worked correctly. So thanks for spelling out those instructions. Clearly nothing wrong with the DR4018, just me not doing it properly. I thought that all the points were now going to work, but I found that some of the DS51K1 ones were triggering one or more others. It seems therefore that the issue is with a conflict in the addresses somewhere, but I don't understand where or why this is happening. There isn't much information about programming the DS51K1s and how they actually work, the process for doing it is clear, but I can't see why a conflict could be created. Any ideas gratefully received! Jose

PS I'm not sure what "The default present is 0 (zero) which works, " means? Can you clarify, please?

Thanks again, Iain. That's very helpful. I will give that a go and see what happens. I am assuming that I do not need to change the connections to the DR4018. I think it needs to be reset because I do not now know what addresses have been assigned to it, and I suspect it may have become just as confused as I was! Something that has occurred to me which I had not thought of before. As the DR4018 cannot give a read back, the controller will know that point 33 has been created, but it will not know that programming 33 also sets up 33-40 in the module. As the instructions say not to program the other addresses, it had not occurred to me before that the controller (neither the Commander nor the Z21 would know about the other addresses and therefore the points still need to be set up and assigned addresses, but without the DR4018 in programming mode. The Kato turnouts have adaptors to convert the 2 wires from the turnouts to 3 wires in order to connect to the DR4018 (and the ZTC decoders) which are probably the ones you refer to, I can't remember whether they are Digikeijs ones or DCC Concepts, but they did all work! They just screw directly into the DR4018 and the wires from the turnouts are then connected to them. All of the turnouts are Kato ones. I'll report back later when I have done it. Jose

(a) Addresses 1-13, 14, 15 & 22 are used by individual Digitrax DS51K1 decoders operating 13 of the points (these were the original ones on the layout). Then I have two ancient ZTC accessory decoders which occupy 17-20, and 25-28 which were added later when I decided to power the fiddle yard points. I have been playing around with the addresses for the Digitrax decoders to try to get them working with the Z21 without much success, hence why there are more addresses used than decoders. They work fine with the Viessmann Commander, though switching from one control centre to the other sometimes require them to be reprogrammed. I am very reluctant to play around with the ZTC decoders because they are currently the only ones that work reliably at the moment with both controllers and as they are extremely ancient, I would rather leave them alone. They are a lot less complex than the the DR4018. They are connected to the track bus and are simply programmed by pushing the program button and then assigning the first number in the sequence. The DR4018 originally used the addresses from 29 onwards. The Viessmann Commander is in fact better for programming than the Z21 app (especially for locos). It offers a lot more options without the need to set individual CVs. When programming the turnout addresses, it assigns a decoder address and an output address. For the Digitrax decoders it seems to assume they are in blocks of 4, so assigns them as "decoder 001 output 1" 2, 3, and 4. These addresses can't be changed and each time you program something, it assigns a new decoder address even though it has been programmed before. I don't understand why it does this, or how to reset it, and I don't know what effect, if any, it has on the other decoders. There is nothing in the manual to explain about it. I had expected that, once something was programmed (a loco or an accessory decoder) with one controller, it would continue to work with another. That certainly applies to locos, so I don't quite understand why it doesn't work with points! (b) I have a programming track set up which is for programming locos. it is not connected to the DR4018 as both the programming track and the DR4018 are fixed in their positions and not near each other. (c) yes, I do understand the difference between POM and programming track. I always use the programming track to program locos. This as I understand operates at a lower power and when programming, the main track power is turned off. This removes the risk of accidentally programming something else on the track, and it is also less likely to cause damage to the decoder. I hope this answers your questions. I have had this layout, and the Viessmann Commander, for about 12 years, and it all worked until I decided to get the Z21! It is only the DR4018 that really baffles me.

Hi Iain Thanks again for the prompt response. I am using Kato points, which are solenoid ones. I can't use address 1 because 1-28 are already in use. I can only set 29 onwards. RCN213 option is set in the app. I don't understand what your point (c) means? I have also tried using my Viessmann Commander to program the DR4018. I follow the instructions for the Commander and the programming light goes off and there is a reassuring "click" to suggest it has programmed correctly, but when I try to operate the point, nothing happens. It has also apparently only set the first point and none of the others. So it shows the correct number on the controller, but it is clearly not registered in the DR4018. When I turned the Commander off and on again, it said there was an address conflict. Everything was working while I was using the Viessmann Commander, but for some reason, some of the points won't work with the Z21. You may recall the issue with some of the other point decoders was raised in a separate topic. I have still not resolved this, but am beginning to think there is some conflict with the addressing between the DR4018 and the other Digitrax DS51K1 decoders. I think I have to reset the DR4018, but please can you clarify the precise instructions to reset it, particularly the conflicting instructions about bridging the track and signal wires. Does it have to be connected differently in order to reset it, or can I still use the setup I have, signal to the track bus and power to external power? You must forgive me but much of this is way beyond my feeble brain and technical expertise, so detailed step by step instructions are needed, even if some of them seem blindingly obvious to you!