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Good Morning John, there has been debate on the Heljan Garratt thread about the effect of the two motors running in same loco. It might certainly be an issue with the motors as supplied, and indeed with the cheap Chinese replacements. I have had two portescap originally in the kitmaster...one removed without much detriment to the hauling power. One of these superb motors....well just look how much they go for on eBay....if and when offered. The mashima 10/20 that replaced the burnt out ones didn't appear to have any problems....it was other areas of the chassis that failed ....plastic centre wheels.....poor pick ups... I ve ordered two high level gear boxes and 14/20 mashimas...currently being awaited...more soon best wishes Brian

Ivan my kitmaster, like yourself bought in my case for a pittance at my local model shop. I discarded the revolving bunker and scratch built its straight sided replacement, recreating the only member of the class to retain this no 47998. Portescap powered it is a real pleasure to see it in action through Water Orton......a sight I could only ever if seen in real life from my pram....mum used to moan having to push a 24 yr old around in it!,, Only joking would have been only 1 when last Garratt met its end...

Heljan magnet now glued into rear of comet frames....soldered using Poppys jig...Heljan slidebars now in comet cylinders...Heljan tender top resting on top.....almost finished.......ok maybe not but seeing the bits starting to be reassembled s a good tonic...

j a quick update....rear magnet area of Heljan chassis removed and epoxied into the comet frames. These have been soldered using Poppys jig....excellent item...comet cylinders Heljan slidebars....Heljan tender tank resting on top.....

Good afternoon Ivan....totally agree what a model large motor in centre , power driven through driveshafts to the two chassis. I know my limitations however....to see the Heljan run faultlessly for a prolonged period is my current goal. In conversation with Mark last night, he has a larger collection of locos than my own. We discussed amongst other matters, the longevity or not of a number of RTR chassis. It was not an uplifting conversation, with a number of the big two products causing concern.....the. Hornby Scot was the starting point of this.

Much appreciated Widnes model centre....I am committed now with my reworking of the Heljan. I have also recieved from Mark another contributor and new friend gained from this website, a Ks Garratt should Heljan not work out. I am always surprised at the friendliness and goodwill that exists within our modelling ranks. Thanks Mark and all those who have shown their good wishes and support. I intend to have at the conclusion of this saga a Garratt that combines the good looks of the Heljan model with an efficient drive train. On that theme I had a former colleague, an excellent O gauge modeller Bob Merry. He would buy a top of the range kit and deliberately discard the chassis and scratch build his own. The results were breathtaking...my own pedestrian efforts ...well let's see

Thank you for your kind words Nelson, as stated already posted two pictures on my Water Orton layout thread. It has to be admitted though they look more like the scrapping shed at Crewe at this time

Good afternoon. I have given up trying to make the Heljan chassis work. I have instead opted at considerable financial outlay to try another route. Two Comet Fowler 264t chassis arrived today, great service as ever. I have two gearboxes and mashima motors on order from High level. The first picture shows the Garratt in pieces. The usual phrase used when commencing a conversion of an expensive RTR model....the heart stopping moment....in this case there was a perverse pleasure in attacking the chassis with a dremel! I have decided to use as much as possible from the original. In this case superstructure, slidebars and the rear magnet ofvtyevchassis. This has been separated, is being thinned and will be located between the comet frames. The chassis hardware such as sandboxes will be added as well. I will record the work.

I have commenced rebuilding...reworking...recreating the Heljan model. I had thought to show the efforts here under the sub title how to improve the Heljan model. That would have consisted of my description of a twelve pound hammer travelling towards its target. I will however continue my description of my work on my thread Water Ortonlayout and stock. Two comet 264 t frames arrived today and battle has commenced....best wishes to all on this thread especially those who have had positive experiences unlike my own. Brian

Sorry to contradict myself...the work on the forward chassis. I cannot make the Current collection efficient enough for my purposes. In addition the front plastic centre wheels have. Lost the ability to remain on the knurled axle . I have therefore decided the following course of action. It is based on my previous models the nu cast since sold...and my kitmaster still I'm glad to say in my possession. This model is powered by the portescap rg4. It Is in one chassis only , the other is so free running as not too matter. I will use the Heljan upper superstructure which is superb. I will use two comet fowler 264t chassis. I will use two load hauler gear boxes with attachments and mashima motors all courtesy of high level kits. I Have the 21mm wheels. On purchasing these...and hopefully making this model work I wil have doubled my nntial purchase price....

Sorry to go on , will check later . For my model I'm sure I used the mainly trains brass ones thinned down again with the dremel

Thank you Tony....my friend RowanJ when looking for my thread typed in Brian does big Bertha ...I think he had to make three loco kits to get over the shock of what appeared on his screen! On a serious note a big thank you,it is because of modellers like you that I have even attempted kits like this.......been said many times , LB is an inspiration. Best wishes Brian

Good afternoon Tony. I am sure you are aware that this kit is " of its Time" very good when first introduced by superceded by kits that combined whitemetal and brass for example the same firms A1. You may have Have come across the latter in your career... The tender in this kit I'm sure if introduced now would be in brass giving the correct variation without the extra work. The loco brakes are interesting as well, being in white metal. It is though an imposing beast ...when complete . Best wishes Brian

Working on the Garratt. One chassis under the revolving bunker is fine. The one under the straight tender is in distress. The tangle of wires between the two chassis and through the loco is amazing. I have long ago dispensed with the working headlamps, glow from the firebox and the glowing tip of the firemans woodbine. I can leave the gimmicks to my diesel fleet. I decided then to try and undo the Gordian knot that are these wires. I have cut through the revolving bunker set, and soldered the relevant ones together...result the chassis is now an independent unit. The other,I have epoxied two PCb strips, under the chassis, drilled through that item and will affix the wires from the mashima direct to the new contacts. I appreciate that by detaching the two I might have removed some suppressor located in the body to enable compatibility between the two, I believe the mashimas are up to it...we will see in due course. For good or ill, I will report here.

Just reread the tender rear casting will be wrong in terms of its height if I recall, which in turn makes the details on it out of kilter with the sides hence its removal. The lampirons were from mainly trains on a detail etch together with window guards for the tender Windows. The irons are too big for 4mm so needed careful reducing with my dremel....do we modellers have masochistic tendencies ?

Good morning Tony I built this a couple of years ago and featured it on my thread which was titled how to build her. My thread has been renamed Water Orton layout but the first few pages are about the kit.. I had followed your and others advice and built the tender first. My first point, don't rely on the kit instructions on how to adapt the tender to its later LMS / BR version. I used a number of photographs. The main work if I recall is reducing the tender sides,this in turn means the rear is now wrong in terms of detail . This was removed and the new details added in the correct place. I hop the attached photos are of use best wishes Brian..one last mention this is the only one of my locomotives that has a three link coupling....it has a converter wagon on standby should I wish to run a train behind it

The cold light of day...emotions back to normal....lump hammer returned to tool box without becoming acquainted with a Garratt chassis. Examination of model. It had been running straight tender first, this was the chassis experiencing the meltdown. The motion had seized on one side, this in turn caused the front drivers to become loose, and lose their quartering, thus adding to the complete seizure of the chassis. Motion removed from the one side, the connecting rod held in place by the crank on cntre driver...this just seems to be a force fit rather than a screw in.....top of tender removed and by turning the flywheel loosened the jam. The wheels were then requartered. The model was then returned to the track . The motion has yet to be replaced , I want at this time to ensure good running...how she looks at the moment is not important. It then became apparent what was the probable cause of last nights mishap, the front pony truck keeps derailing and on doing so jams into the motion. I have removed the truck for now....and the Garratt has been running for the past half hour. The mashimas are working fine and now being run in are better than I recall back in January, in addition the extra pick ups on the centre wheels to my mind really aid the running.. Ok not there yet got to replace motion and work on that pony truck...but feel a lot better today!

The Heljan loco has just failed again...what a pile of poo.....I have a plan...will record it here...poorer but wiser but still in need of a revolving bunker Garratt...

Whom the gods wish to destroy they first make proud...after my last post...cue bugle...went to my loft layout ran the Garratt...then derail is it the pony truck....oh no...front driving wheel loose...motion jammed....even the mashimas running hot...trust me...this loco is a pile of poo....I will salvage the best bits...superstructure ...will order .two comet fowler 264 t chassis.....portescap motor exchanged from one of my remaining locos that they have them...in this case a millholme a2/2 , a hi flier and mashima 14/30 will replace.. This drastic action will I hope produce a worthy sister loco to my kitmaster vintage 1960 loco....

My mate Paul returned my Garratt again today. It has been in works since January. I had asked him to replace the mashimas with new Chinese motors bought for a pittance from e bay. I had the mistaken belief the mashimas were not powerful enough. He had done so for one of the new Cheapos (2 quid each) to fail...dejavu....to fail dejavu....old joke just like me...anyway recommended I stay with mashimas. In meantime he had identified other issues...new pick ups added to centre wheels on each chassis...wheels tightened on axles and cleaned....anyway the loco was returned today....what a revelation...glided around my layout...over my unintended gradients leaving and entering my fiddle yards. In conclusion I have now spent 300 pounds....I would have paid that initially.....just to have the model I now seem to own......but to see this beautiful loco cruise through water orton ...as the real ones did before I was born....priceless

Hopefully my last post on this site...Garratt in works since January...had specified to my mate to replace the mashimas with another batch of Chinese motors..thinking the mashimas not as powerful. He did so for one of the new batch to overheat and fail. In meantime discovered a number of other problems...pick ups not making good connectivity...driving wheels becoming loose. To cut a very long story short recommended I stay with the mashimas....I have done so....he has added extra pick ups to the centre wheels on each chassis..wheels cleaned...returned to me today....what a revelation....in conclusion I have now spent an extra 100 quid on this loco...would have paid 300 at outset... To see this Garratt perform on my layout today...priceless

A sombre post , please forgive....I picked my wife up from her job this afternoon as a teaching assistant at a special needs school. I suggested she had a little retail therapy at a local major shopping venue to get over a stressful day. An offer that would have been only too readily accepted ...but no. We went instead to a local licensed premises. My lovely wife then disclosed her real reason for not wanting to shop...too much glass. In my ignorance....I did not understand ...she mentioned it again some minutes later...I had taken it too mean it would be too hot because of the sunshine through the panes......no...her fear the effect of glass as shrapnel...please don't let these people win....

A little off piste for this thread....yes I know totally unknown....at a Warley exhibition not too many years ago the artist David Shepherd.was present exhibiting some of his work, together with one of his locos. I stood before a picture of two elderly brothers, amongst his other works..wildlife...steam engines.Mr Shepherd noticed my interest in this portrait, I spoke with him saying how much he had captured the personality of each man..two brothers, unmarried, when painted in old age...but goodness me what characters..... I had never met these men, never will.....but they were alive on that canvass. I think the above ability to create in 3D, and something not present in say military .modellung the effect of motion , a portrait of a time and place is what makes this hobby if not unique but special.

I believe it was an Iain Rice article where he stated that rather than make a model we can create a " portrait" of it. The older models seem to bear that out...having a certain presence which I find appealing.

Point rodding...track formations...when modelling an actual location ... If modelling it a a very specific time....as Tony has done with LB you can record it exactly. In my case, if you model a location...Water Orton, but have a flexible time scale 1950 to pre tops 1974....(.and even then class 56 and 58 make an appearanc) .Water orton east junction was created in 1908 when new fast lines were laid between that point and Kingsbury. It was controlled by a traditional midland box titled Water Orton station junction in British Railways days. In 1961... On Boxing Day that year I believe...a freight train derailment caused such damage which necessitated the replacement of the box by a BR standard design signed Water Orton East Junction. The two boxes existed side by side for a short period as recorded in August 62..the point,.no pun intended.....the rodding was different. It was further complicated in 69,when the manual east box was decommissioned in favour of the main box at Saltley. This coincided with the he refuge siding on the slow lines being removed and the crossover from the fast to slow lines being moved closer to the station. I have modelled both boxes...but cannot create the rodding as it will be different for each box when in situ.....and yes a cop out...because if I had the means to outsource this modelling activity by way of cheque book....I certainly would