Robin Gristwood

don't worry, we'll get there, by committee!

 

I'm sure this horse wont end up as a camel being built by a committee, but more like a thoroughbred I hope?

Progress has been made thanks to all your suggestions and links, both here and by PM.

I've now got to the stage Simon suggested of slotting it all together and fitting wheels.

I was thrilled to see that it not only pushes along but carries on running for a while afterwards too with no sign of binding, but that was just with the single layer of rods as I haven't yet plucked up the courage to laminate the coupling rods together, I have made the jig to do so with the suggested cocktail sticks.

There are 2 rods each side for the wheels and another 2 for the crankshaft link, plus one that links them all (five in total on each side).

I do have a resistance soldering unit now and 188C solder paste. Would that be the best way to do the laminating or perhaps tin each rod separately with 145C and use lots of flux?

Any suggestions on best voltage RSU output (London Road model)to use as well? I don't want to "cook" them too much

John,

My instructions are made up of 14 double sided sheets also. So at least I know I'm not missing anything.

I have sent you a PM.

I'm assuming that's not diagram 1....

 

 

Yes, I'm sorry to say that is the first page after the pages showing all the parts included in the kit..!

Here are the pages showing the kit contents...

...but there is no indication of what order things should be done?

Well I thought lets have a go at my DJH 03 starter kit - "ideal for the novice" it says.

I opened up the box and took my first proper look at the instructions.

The kit may be ideal for the novice but the instructions don't exactly give any help in showing what order things should be done.

Only problem is they aren't really instructions, but more a case here's one I did earlier.

Eek.. where do I start?

Another option to see what's happening is to use your video camera to record the movement through the potentially defective Peco Y point  and hopefully capture the moment it derails.

That will allow you to re-run the video to see exactly where its happening.

Just a thought.

Just posting this to see if forum broken again, as all recent postings seem to have disappeared

The Loriot is great, and you've got your head round track work! What's next?

 

 

Once I finalise the track plan I have a DJH 03 0-6-0 Diesel shunter to build. That will be my first attempt at building a driven chassis in O Gauge, another milestone to conquer though....?

Just out of interest can anyone tell me were the 03 shunters called '03' from the start or did they have some other designation before the days of TOPS?

I thought it was about time I updated this with a post on the progress made on my layout.
I still haven’t finalised the plan but I have started to build things for the layout.

I went to the Reading GOGG trade show in December and marvelled at all the lovely ‘goodies’ available. It was hard to resist, I felt like a kid in a candy store. I did buy a Connoisseur Brass GWR Loriot starter kit as I have never built a brass kit before and I thought I had better have a go,

I started it after Christmas and I’m pleased with the result. It was a pleasure to put together and my soldering skills have developed significantly now too.

Its now primed with Halfords acid etch ready for painting

I've also grasped the nettle of making up the C&L turnout kit in a bag I bought at Warley.

I waited until I got the 31.5mm gauges from Debs before starting on this.

I printed off a Templot A5 drawing to build as its slightly different to the C&L drawing that comes with the turnout.

I used the excellent posts on the old RMWeb by Dikitriki http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=687924#p687924 to guide me during the construction. All of the tips provided proved to be invaluable.

Its almost finished. The only thing I need to do is to decide what method I will use to have a functional stretcher bar doesn't detract from the lovely look of the rest of the trackwork.

This is the easy one to build though, all the rest will need to be curved points which I need to get my head around.

I really enjoyed seeing Dock Green at St. Albans, its even more impressive in the "flesh". Unfortunately I didn't get to talk to you about the layout as both times you had gone for a break, but your knowledgeable operating team were able to answer my questions.

I was pleased to see how well Dinghams couplings work on your layout as I am planning on using them for mine as well.

I did take a few photos of the layout whilst I was there.

One thing I forgot to ask about though was what is the height of the layout, as I am currently trying to work out an optimum height for mine.

After contemplating quite a lot of different plans for the space I have available, I’ve come up with this sketch.

The idea is that this former station remains open as goods only mainly to serve the branch to the docks as well as the numerous warehouses along the route.

The era will be early/mid 1960’s and I’m tempted to base the layout in Liverpool with all the docks traffic and all those lovely Mersey Docks 7 harbour Board steam locos. I have a green 02 diesel which fits the bill as well.

I’ve started to use Templot, but it is a steep learning curve, but I know I must persevere with it as I want to build turnouts to 31.5mm gauge, and as you can see nearly all the turnouts are curved in some way due to the necessity of having to curve the plan to make best use of the space I have.

I need to squeeze up some of the sidings so that it reduces the baseboard width a bit more.

I didn’t want to go over 33”, but my Templot skills haven’t quite mastered how best to do this.

I need to be able to tidy up the sleepering (if there is such a word!) arrangements on the turnouts also, so that I can print off and start to build them now I have received my lovely 31.5mm gauges from Debs.

I’ve noticed too that I will have to change some of the sleepering shown by Templot, as the maximum length sleeper included in C&L turnout kits is 13 ft, but how do I make crossovers using these plastic turnout timbers, which I presume need longer timbers to straddle the crossing?

My previous HO layouts have been quite high (about 50 inches) but I will lower this one to around 44”.

This will allow me (and others) to reach across the necessarily wide boards better and modelling at almost shoulder height does make my arms ache..!

The dismantling of my previous layout is progressing. It has allowed me to mock up the proposed height/width to make sure I can reach across 33” at 44” rail height.

As you can see I intend to use arches along the edge of the goods yard to provide some height difference which breaks up the otherwise flat aspect of a layout.

I might make this part removable to allow for easier access for maintenance.

The plan isn’t “set in stone” yet, and as I get more fun from shunting wagons around than running passenger coaches in and out, I was thinking about reversing the engine release crossover at the end of the platform.

In which case trains could arrive on the run-round loop rather than the platform, and the train detached from the loco by a pilot engine, and shunted away releasing the train loco.

This arrangement would allow the main platform to be used for goods loading/unloading which would drastically increase the wagon capacity/shunting opportunities of the plan.

The other benefit, even if the platform track was not used for loading/unloading, is that it would allow me to model a low relief warehouse against the wall, which will again increase the number of wagon destinations.

For me, the more possibilities of where a wagon can go once its arrived the better.

Yep you can still use the C&L 32mm flexitrack with the 31.5 turnouts, that 0.5mm extra width is so easy to blend in without noticing the differing gauge. I personally blend it in between the blades and the vee, but saying that most of my turnouts being on a curve are around 30" to 36" long. If you are building say an A5 or a B6 turnout it would probably be best to put the transition before the toe of the turnout.

 

Martyn.

Apologies for another "newbie" question, but if I build C&L turnouts to 31.5mm, does that mean I can't use the C&L template to build them?

Thanks for the advice on adapting Peco points, but I’ve decided they are not the way to go and C&L turnouts is the best option for me.

From what I’ve seen and read on here it looks like that 31.5mm gauge turnouts offer both the best running quality and improved appearance that I am looking for.

I will have to get myself some 31.5mm gauges.

I don’t fancy having to build all the plain track too, so can I still use C&L 32mm gauge flexitrack as well?

At what point can I join the flexi to the slightly narrower turnout?

Its been nearly three months since I posted an update on here.

I’ve been carrying on with the micro-layout, changed the track plan somewhat and fixed the track to foam with No More Nails as can be seen below.

I also finished the sector plate track. I thought I would use this as a bit of a test bed.

Track was painted and ballasted, and I tried out static grass on the embankment to see how what length fibres are needed to achieve desired effect.

After a bit of experimenting I used the mix recommended by Giles of this parish, a selection of 4mm and 6mm with some longer lengths added to the mix.

I also bought myself a nicely finished little Class 02 shunting diesel, yes, I know the number is wrong for an 02. I will change it and remove the front handrails as well in time.  

I’ve fitted it with a sound chip and a capacitor. I’m using an 03 sound chip that I bought to go into a DJH 03 starter kit that I have got as well.

I used a pasting table to set up the layout and started to test the trackwork with some stock. Hmmm.. one step forwards to steps back.

It was now that I realised that foam was maybe not the best choice for this micro-layout. Trying to align the sector plate track to the layout proved difficult.

The height of the rails was the problem. Even with chocking up the base and wedging various bits of card under both the layout and sector plate extension.

But there were other issues as well that have persuaded me to not continue with the micro-layout.

I wasn’t happy with the look or the running of the single Peco point. That coffin in the middle looks horrible and the drop in the vee is not acceptable to me, having run my HO layout on Fast-tracks pointwork.

I bought myself a C&L A5 Turnout in a bag kit.

The biggest reason though is actually that I want to build a full size O gauge layout now.

So I have sold the last of my US HO stock today.

I have been working on a trackplan, but its not finalised yet. I know it will be set in mid-sixties, so I can use the stock I have at the moment.

No hurry yet to get the plan finished as I still have to dismantle the old layout.

I want to make up the C&L turnout, but I'm not sure if I need to go down the 31.5mm gauge route for the pointwork?

I've been looking through various layout topics and blogs on here, without a great degree of success, to see if I can find out whether a standard C&L turnout built to 32mm with 1.75mm flangeways suffer from wheel drop in the vee or not?

Obviously it will be much easier to use the ready-built common crossings available from C&L in future, but not if using them causes wheeldrop.

I don't want to sacrifice the kit to build it to 32mm just to find they do drop.

Can anyone help me with this dilemma?

There is nothing wrong with the Slater's 20t BR Brake Van - it makes up in to a fine model BUT the Slater's approach is time consuming and can be fiddly. I have built both the Slater's and the Connoisseur and if I was to build another it would be the brass one. If you are going to build the Slater's brake van you might want to do what I did and replace the plastic footboards with brass ones. The support brackets are lost wax brass castings and a glued joint between the plastic boards and these is fragile to say the least.

 

The "troubles" I am having with their 12T van kits are not insurmountable by any means. I was merely drawing comparisons between their kits and the more straightforward Parkside ones. I have got to the point where, if I find a tricky problem that is the result of poor kit design, I get impatient - why is it like that? - when with just a little more care...

 

"it would be really useful to know which brass kits you have had significant problems with,  to both avoid making expensive mistakes as well as potentially getting disheartened with brass kits."

 

Yes, understood, but one has to be a little careful - slagging off kits in a casual way is not on - but an accurate account of problems encountered must be legitimate. The best advice I can give you is to ask on forum - if people have had problems with a kit they will certainly tell you. Of course if you decide to build something nobody on here as done you won't get more than a general "His kits are good" or "Don't touch it with a ten foot pole". I could tell you that the J52 saddle tank I built is an awful kit but that's of little help if you don't want to build one! I have built several Connoisseur kits and have not yet encountered a bad one. If you want to get into brass kits a wagon from the range would be a good start. Of course etched brass is more of a challenge than moulded plastic and requires different skills and tools but there is nothing that a reasonably skilled modeller need shy away from.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

Chaz

Thank you Chaz for your helpful and considered advice. I did not, and would not, expect you to slag off any particular kit.

It is really useful to know what pitfalls one might encounter that are due to design flaws rather than one’s own inadequate skills, and how to work round them too as you have explained.

I will persevere with the Slaters Brake Van and see how I go, but if the problem is around fitting of parts that cannot be ordinarily seen during normal running then I think I will be tempted to skip them.

After all if the only time they would be visible would be when its on its side after a derailment, I think I’d rather make sure I don’t have derailments!

Feels like cheating? No, not really. When you have built some of the appalling brass kits that still lurk waiting to catch the unwary - kits where you have to modify and replace bits to have any hope of success - you develop a different attitude to kits.

As a new starter in O gauge, I am on a steeply rising learning curve and it would be really useful to know which brass kits you have had significant problems with,  to both avoid making expensive mistakes as well as potentially getting disheartened with brass kits.

I too have a Slaters 20t BR Brake Van to make up, having read what troubles you are having I'm tempted to ditch it and maybe get a Connoisseur Brass one?

Robin

Back from holiday and all ready to carry on with this project.

My HO US layout uses NCE Power Pro DCC. I want to use DCC and sound in O gauge too. But I didn’t want to disconnect it all to use it on this micro layout.

Luckily I have a PowerCab handset that I use on the main layout. So I bought the power pack and panel to be able to use the PowerCab handset on the new layout.

Whilst using foam makes the layout a lot lighter and stable with no chance of warping, it does have its drawbacks. Holes need to be dug out of the foam to accommodate the panel.

As the foam surrounds the electrics, even though it is running on 13.5v input, I’m sure it will not help it if it is running hot and there is no place for the heat to go.

I’ve got it working now, and its very satisfying to run my Heljan Class 20 up and down on just a length of track on DCC and hearing the superb sound from South West Digitals LokSound XL v4.

I’m still trying to work out whether I need to add any resistors between the lights before connecting them to the DCC board. That's why I haven't put the body back on yet.

The Heljan instructions say that to convert to DCC, “simply remove the PCB and replace it with your chosen O gauge decoder. No need to cut or do anything else to convert your model into DCC”

But I don’t want to blow the LEDS as there are really difficult to get at and replace.

If anyone can help me with information that I’d appreciate it.

I’ve undercoated all the track I need ready to paint it. Another drawback of using foam is that grey primer spray paint eats into the foam. So track will be painted away from layout before being glued to the foam.

I haven’t cut any track yet as I haven’t fully decided on the length of each siding, but the track plan is pretty fixed now that the sector plate is made.

I’ve used the facility of the Peco point to switch the frog polarity using their microswitch in the coffin box over the tie bar. The point has been wired for DCC so the switch rails do not rely on contact with running rail for power now.

Again the foam causes a problem as I have had to dig out a small channel under the point to accommodate the wiring from the micro-switch to the frog and running rails.

Once the track is painted I can finalise the siding lengths and wire it up and start playing testing running the wagons and locos. Then I can glue down the track and start the ballasting. That's when it really feels like I have got a new layout to work on.

I have to say that I haven't done anything on my American HO layout since I've started on this project. O gauge seems to have that effect. I was warned by others that this would happen.

Great suggestions Chris, thanks. The trial with the No More Nails was successful. Track sticks to foam and foam hasn't disintegrated. I did think of using a PVA type glue but thought it might be weakened when ballasting and adding ground cover as I tend to use alot of diluted PVA for that.

I'm on holiday at the moment so cant post a photo. That also means I won't be able to get to Telford either, but Greek islands do have their own attraction.

More progress planned when I get back.

Thank you all for the words of warning.

 I shall try the glue on a spare bit of foam to see if it does the trick or melts it disasterously.

I decided to go with the foam option, after all the idea behind this is doing something different.

I have framed the foam with ply, apart from the front which is 6mm MDF.

This is only temporarily fitted with screws so that I remove it, if and when I carve away any of the foam at the front, as that is one of the advantages of using this foam.

I have also built the sector plate. Ballast and scenery will be added to the foam sector plate track and embankment.

This will give me a chance to practice some 7mm scenery, scaling up from HO I imagine some things will be the same, although some things will need different treatment I’m sure.

The next step is to fix the track to the foam. I will be using No More Nails as I did on my HO track, unless someone has a better idea?

Oi!! You can't just chuck out statements like "I bought some foam at lunchtime" & leave it at that!!!

Extruded foam has gone rarer than gold dust in the UK it seems - disappeared from B&Q & suchlike for sure!! - where did you get your sheet from?

 

Other than that welcome to the Big Stuff & don't forget you can do American O as well

I got the blue foam sheet from the trade counter of Sheffield Insulation Group. Its called DOW Floormate 300A.

I think the sheet I bought was a shade just under £19.00 incl. VAT. I got the 75mm thickness, but available in 50mm as well.

As far as I know they have branches across the country. I bought mine at the Oldbury branch.

It is available in denser foam too I think. The sheet I got is designed for ceiling/floor insulation loading. There are heavier grades for greater loading too.

It is surprising light. It certainly didn't warrant the order picker bringing my one sheet to my car on the forks of his forklift. It was lucky it want windy I think it would have taken off otherwise..!

Hope that helps?

Oh no.. I knew it was too good to last

Baseboard finished. Track plan printed out 1:1 and laid out. My imagination starting to fill in the gaps, visualising what could go where. A good weekends work...or so I thought

..and then when I was lying in bed I had one of those light bulb moments.

I had noticed that the baseboard was quite heavy when I was moving it around. The brainwave I had was to use a sheet of extruded foam.

I'd used this before as a cover for the window in my layout room painted sky blue.

At less than £20.00 for a sheet of 75mm I picked one up today during my lunch break.

I remembered to take a saw as they are 2.5m long and my car boot isn't, even with the back seats down.

So now I have a choice to make.. do I use the wooden baseboard and follow "the known" path or go with the foam and take a leap into the unknown...?

Decisions, decisions......

Thank you all for you welcome and your words of encouragement.

Progress is being made, I've finished the main board now.

Its amazing with such a small layout how quickly something tangible can be knocked up.

Not throwing away offcuts of timber and plywood helps too of course..!!

Next I've got to make the sector plate and the base and think of a simple and easy way of fixing it to the main board

I'll use Marc Smith's idea again of modelling the sector plate as an embankment http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9892-minimum-space-o-gauge-layout/?p=106856

Onwards and upwards... hopefully

Hi Robin,

 

Welcome to the fold, there are several of small layouts on RMWeb using green/early blue diesels, so lots of inspiration, and as you note you can mix and match as there's not likely to be more than one loco 'in steam'- or should that be heavy fuel.

 

Look forward to seeing this develop, any thoughts yet on track?

I have the track and the one Peco point I need already for this, but for future projects I will try a C&L point kit as I prefer the more prototypical look of the track.

On my HO layout I used Fast-tracks points rather than Peco and they looked much better.

Hello everyone.

This is my first post on this forum. I’ve been modelling American HO for the last fifteen years or so http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=6088, but feel drawn towards something more familiar in prototype yet a different challenge as far as modelling, so modelling British 7mm seems to fit the bill.

I won’t be jumping in head first just yet. I am not dismantling my HO layout yet, I’m planning for the future, but for now I’m building an O gauge micro layout. I’m sure I will need to ask loads of newbie type questions.

I’ve been impressed by so many of the micro layouts on this forum, I love to model details and O gauge seems like the perfect scale for that. A large layout in 4mm or HO takes a lot of time to get anywhere near finished so I’m hoping this micro layout will whet my appetite to carry on in 7mm for the long term.

For my micro layout I have blatantly stolen the plan developed by Marc Smith http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9892-minimum-space-o-gauge-layout/ 

I particularly liked the idea of the fully scenicked sector plate. As such a high proportion is fiddle yard it seems preferable visually to blend it somehow with the layout itself.

I may flip it so that the entry track comes in from the right though.

I looked at the minimum Inglenook specifications and it was 3-2-2 capacities for the 3 roads and a headshunt of loco and 2 wagons. I originally planned that, but thought I might as well add another 6” and increase capacity and shunting options and overall look too.

I haven't decided on what structures to include yet, or the setting. I was thinking of some sort of small permanent way sidings with a small store and all the bits and pieces associated with it.

I'm also torn between blue TOPS which is what I remember seeing whilst travelling by train whilst I was a student, and Green diesel era. But with such a small layout to test things I suppose there is no reason why I can't run both.

Robin