RRU

It was the last run of the season for the Scarborough Spa Express yesterday. Sadly no steam. 35018 “British India Line” could not leave the NRM due to a faulty injector so the train was diesel hauled all the way. 47854 “Diamond Jubilee” and 47746 “Chris Fudge” were on the train but only 47854 was under power. 47746 just went for the ride.

Return journey from York was on the new class 68 hauled TPE train. I will not be rushing to catch it again. It looks and feels like they have used rigid Hornby bogies without the outer side frames. Every slight movement and sound of the wheels is transmitted through the floor and the seat bases which feel like a sheet of plywood covered with cloth. What a difference from the old Mk1`s on the SSE which just float along.

Do the designers of all this modern rolling stock actually ride on it to find out what it is like?

Peter

33 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Agreed, but the demand for electricity continues to increase and emissions from gas and other non-renewables are still a serious problem in terms of air quality and global warming.  There is no doubt in my mind that the excessive use of diesel fuelled traction is much worse, though, and electrification is the way to go; everybody else in Europe has known this for 70 years, but the treasury repeatedly fails to fund schemes here and worse, promises money that it then retracts as has happened with GW scheme west of Cardiff and Bristol (and Filton bank), and the Midland ML.

 

 

Here in West Yorkshire we are promised electrification from Leeds to Huddersfield. This will only benefit the hourly direct stopping train to Leeds. This means that ALL the Trans-Pennine trains will still have to be diesel powered because of two gaps, from Manchester to Huddersfield and from Leeds to Colton Junction. Both these gaps have the steepest gradients. Also Huddersfield to Wakefield trains will have to be diesel.

Peter

This picture was taken at York two weeks ago. The blue haze above the footbridge was coming from an HST which was there for forty minutes.

Peter

Exhaust emissions.

Now that some cities have, or are planning to have, clean air zones only allowing vehicles in with Euro 6 emissions, will this have an impact on the railway?

What standard are the new trains entering service now up to?

What does it mean for older units and preserved loco`s at heritage railways?

What about steam loco`s?

These pics are taken at Keighley during the recent diesel gala. Any vehicle on the road producing that amount of smoke would be stopped as soon as it was spotted.

Peter

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

ETH shore supply by the look of them so presumably stock will be left in the platforms overnight or for extended periods.

Thank you for your reply Sir. Maybe they are there so that the class 68`s can be shut down during their layover. I will try and get a pic of them in use.

Peter

On 23/08/2019 at 21:29, a98087 said:

 

the pictures also shows a back drive attached to the point, the purpose being to move the rear of the switch over,

 

Normally its mounted in between the running rails in 3rd rails areas , and outside when there isn’t no 3rd rail

 

dan 

On 24/08/2019 at 07:23, jim.snowdon said:

And is something of a British peculiarity resulting from a self-imposed limit on the switch opening that harks back to the days of mechanical operation. So is the flexible stretcher bar, as well as its modern replacement, the tubular stretcher bar, which is a singularly complex piece of kit for a simple task, and uniquely British.

 

Jim

Here is a shot of the full installation.

Moving on. More gadgets.

There are two of these between platforms three and four at Scarborough. Anyone know what they are? They obviously do not need to be level.

There is also this further along.

Peter

53 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The TOCs do what they consider they are contractually obliged to provide. It is cheaper to pay the penalties than to provide spare trains and crews. 

 

The bus/coach companies will always come to the rescue

Peter

So the railway companies are basically “winging it”, knowing full well that if anything goes wrong they are up the creek without a paddle.

Peter

6 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

Spare trains and crews to work them are a thing of the past I'm afraid Peter, it costs a lot of money to have people sat around waiting to be put to use.

They could be doing yard jobs or working as I did as a mechanic in the garage. Many times the boss came in and said Peter take your overalls off and go do the 360 service for two hours.

Peter

+

I know I am going to get a lecture from Mr. Stationmaster on how the railway works, but I am not criticising, just asking what the procedures are when something goes wrong.

There must be some sort of contingency plans for these kind of things. Are there not any spare trains and crew at Manchester and York that can spring into life and run some kind of service until the problem is solved? I would imagine it will be easier to set up and run emergency services when all the operations are run from inside one building like the ROC`s than having to communicate to many signal boxes.

A chap next to me in the queue asked where are the trains on our side of the blockage. They would probably be on the Newcastle and Middlesbrough services.

Peter

I recieved two messages a few minutes ago whilst I was composing another post. I must have done something wrong because I cannot see them. If you replied to this thread a few minutes ago can you please re-send it.

Peter

Thursday 29th August What a day!

It all started like any other Thursday. The SSE arrived on time loaded to the max. at 13 coaches.

There were two class 68`s stood at the buffers of no. 3 and 4 platforms. Pictures below. All was running well and I took my place to video the SSE leaving.

I was looking forward to a ride on the new Nova3/class 68 combo but then I noticed the train for the 1644 wasn't there. Then the 1744 did not turn up. Something's wrong. The Hull trains were running and the SSE left and then I made my way to the station. That's when I found out there would be no trains for at least two hours. We were told this was caused by someone jumping in front of a train at Slaithwaite

Then an announcement. Buses would be provided. 1730 is the worst time this could have happened. All the buses and coaches are busy and it is when most people are going home. So, everyone moves outside to wait. Eventually a coach and a H reg. double decker arrive. Poor old thing, it should be in semi retirement but found itself thrashing down the A64 at 40mph.

A thought occurred to me during the journey, I wonder if the train onward at York will be the next departure from Scarborough, and it was. That 90 min. bus ride got us nowhere. Ah well.

Then to cap it all off, the train ran spot on time all the way to Huddersfield where I got off.

This has raised a few talking points which I will come to later.

Here are the class 68`s

Nearest the camera is 68023 “Achilles” and alongside is 68028 “Lord President”

Peter

Good evening. Scarborough again today. Its not long since I got back home. You will probably know about the disruption to TPE trains this afternoon. If not I will post a description tomorrow.

It is too late now to write anything longer than this .

Here is a pic of the SSE arriving. 13 coaches today.

Peter

A work mate used to fund all his holiday travel every year with the vouchers he received from late running trains.

Peter

Thank you every one for your replies on this subject. Its all been very interesting and informative.

Previously I assumed it would be first come, first served.

Just to round off this subject, can anyone explain the thinking for holding “The Dalesman” train in Kirkstall loop for 15 mins. while local trains pass. This loop is only two miles out of Leeds station and seeing as “The Dalesman” runs non-stop to Skipton I cannot see the reason.

The train is also held there on the return journey.

Peter

16 hours ago, caradoc said:

 Signallers nowadays work with Traffic Management Statements (TMS) which are agreed between NR and the TOCs, and which give clear guidance on how to manage late running.

Thanks for the reply. So my hunch was correct, there is a pecking order for trains at various pinch points.

Peter

Thanks for the replies. So if the shutdowns are planned the designers must have taken the transmission into account before they wrote the software.

Peter

Now onto a more technical point.

The class 185.

I have noticed on a few occasions when the train is stationary an engine has been stopped. I am sure it has been stopped by the driver because the train has not been stationary long enough for an automatic shutdown. Is this to save fuel?

But then the train can travel quite a long way with one engine stopped. Whilst travelling like this two things occurred to me

First, how long can the batteries run all the lights and the AC and still start the engine.

Second, the transmission. When we had to tow in a vehicle with an automatic gearbox, we had to remove a drive shaft to avoid causing damage to the transmission due to the oil pump being driven from the input shaft.

So either the transmissions have been designed to allow the train to run with an engine stopped, or the drivers are risking damaging the gearboxes.

I'm sure there is someone out there who knows the answer.

Peter

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

Presumably the train that arrived in Platform three was late - Do you know why this was ? It could be a Network Rail issue, or a Train operator issue, or an external cause. Why was it regulated in front of the TPE train ? There may well have been a good reason for this, eg further congestion caused en route if it was delayed further, another train right behind at York, short turnround at destination, etc.

 

 

Yes, it was late but only the ROC knows why. Someone there decided to not just have one late train but two. I have seen it happen too many times to be a coincidence. If there is a conflict anywhere the Trans Pennine has to give way.

York platform four only makes sense for trains travelling to Scarborough. In the other direction it means passengers walking from the main entrance along platform three only to be taken back there by the train when it leaves. It would be far more useful if the centre through line was re-instated. Then anything in platform three could be overtaken.

Peter

My favourite reason given for being late was “Too many trains in Manchester”.

Peter

Right then, I think we have put that subject to bed. On to the next one, time keeping, or the lack of it.

Last year all arrivals at Huddersfield were on average eight minutes late, After a few weeks of seeing this I thought to myself that if this is happening to all the trains it must be the timetable that is eight minutes fast.

If that time was added to the timetable then the trains would be on time.

This year things are much better, but this is what I have noticed.

For years the practice at Scarborough was for the train to arrive and then go straight out again. This meant that if it was five or more minutes late then it was late leaving. This year trains are laying over until the next trip. This means no matter how late they arrive they always depart on time. This is an excellent idea and shows somebody at TPE is thinking.

Great, I thought, now we are going to be on time. We were until we arrived at York. This is where it started to go wrong and shows where Trans Pennine Express is in the pecking order at Network Rail. At the bottom. Another factor to add in is the track layout at York which has crippled the station since it was re-modelled.

The train arrives at platform four with time in hand. This is the first problem. The only exit southbound is along platform three which the passengers have just walked along to get to platform four. At precisely our departure time a train arrives in platform three from the main line which means the TPE is now trapped and must wait for the other train to depart. The train is now five minutes late and is sent down the Normanton line which means it has to do the Conga over the zig zags at Church Fenton to reach the Leeds line. Arrival at Leeds is ten minutes late. We are now on the core section and the driver is doing his best but guess what, we have to slow at Dewsbury because a stopping train is ahead of us. Just another example of TPE being at the bottom. Arrival at Huddersfield is 15 minutes late caused entirely by Network Rail.

Trains in the opposite direction are treated just the same. Many times I have heard the guard say “The reason for the delay was that we had to follow a slower train out of Manchester”.

I'm sorry this post is a bit long.

Peter

3 hours ago, royaloak said:

 but the standard answer we get is crash protection,

The 68`s and 88`s look as if they have had a crash already.

Peter

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

If you drive the same bus everyday on the same roads in the same conditions does it feel the same every time you drive it?

Yes it does. If it does not then it means something is not right and needs investigating.

I drove a regular Saturday route for many years with the same bus and got to know it inside out.

Being in Huddersfield meant plenty hill-climbing and descents. On the steepest hill I used to engage third gear at the top and then hold it on the retarder, not needing the brakes unless I had to stop.

If the retarder would not hold it then I knew there was a stage not working so I would check it on the next inspection.

Peter

33 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Proving the point you know very little about driving trains!

 

I

22 minutes ago, 101 said:

 

But you dont get into a lorry and drive it flat out until the last second you can brake for a traffic light and then slam the brakes on! Which is basically how many trains have to be driven to keep to time (although in saying that a lot of schedules are getting slacker nowadays).

 I'm sure most train drivers could manage with being given anything and told to get on with it if they were able to just dawdle around.

I'm afraid you just can't compare driving a road vehicle with a train.

 

That's more like it. A healthy debate.

You are right, I don't know anything about driving trains but I do know about driving a 14 metre, six wheel, double decker coach.

I would like your opinion on the design of new rolling stock. I see massive blind spots which may be less important for a railway vehicle.

Peter